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  1. #21  
    Well said, TxDot and Scott R and others. I find this same argument time and again from folks who use "warez" or other illegal software. They complain about high prices from software manufacturers, not realizing that often times the smaller companies barely scrape by. Pirated software doesn't hurt Microsoft, it hurts the little guys with great ideas but not enough $$$ to keep them afloat. The REASON the costs are so high is because so many people find some ridiculous relative-moral highground that somehow justifies them not paying for the software, or in this case, for cell service.

    Now, I'm not saying that Sprint or any of the major cell carriers are "The Little Guy", but the same agrument stands. Fraud is fraud, and it costs the rest of us money in the long run.
  2. #22  
    I think we should go back to the practice of chopping off the hands of thieves.
  3. #23  
    What do you chop off when the theft is of intellectual property or a "service" such as cellular service?
  4. #24  
    here's a thought - pay for what you use
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library of President George W. Bush. Both of his books have been lost. Presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president was devastated, as he had not finished coloring the second one...
  5. #25  
    I'm going to toss in my two cents. I'm happy to pay Sprint's costs, because they give me what I feel is every penny's worth and probably then some. If they didn't, I'd switch to someone who does or just discontinue using a cell phone.

    I do have to say there are times, that I would have robbed Cingular when I was with them. Specifically when they introduced Rollover minute, my plan wasn't included. That's fine and all, but the advertising said something like "the minutes are yours, use them." Well, I explained that to the service rep and it turned out the minutes on my plan weren't mine after all, so I didn't get to keep them.

    Another thing that comes close is Sprint's Fair and Flexible plan. You've seen the commercials where they go to the playground and ask the little boy how much he plans to use the ball that month, because if he goes over he'll get overcharged and if he goes under it's just a waste. Well, those plans cost $5 extra to get into, so it's some $60 a year for insurance in case I go over. And even if I do go over, I still have to pay more just not the ridiculously high prices per minute. So in reality the little boy at the playground is paying more for the ball to begin with to lessen the blow if he mis-plans his ball playing allotment. You think that boy is going to understand that? No, it's just another way add complexity and try to appear to be consumer-friendly, when, in reality, it's scummy. If Sprint really wanted to practice what they preach in their commercials they'd include that Fair & Flexible as standard.

    All that said, I can forgive Sprint due to $10 unlimited data plans that I've been grandfathered in. I just can't blame others if they want to use a loophole they found to combat a company's false (or at the VERY least misleading) advertising.
  6. OwnUtah's Avatar
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    #26  
    Listen. We all have ethics and integrity here right? What happens when we compromise our ethics? What happens when we compromise our integrity and become dishonest? More importantly how do you feel? Some may say the heck with how I feel I can get over it.
    Make no mistake, you will always remember when you have compromised these ideals. Some may be so numb that they consider a small theft of services no problem, but you will always remember. Is it worth it? NO!

    I worked for Time Warner for about 6 years during AOL 2.5 - 9.0 beta. We had hundreds of corporate discounts that were available to us from different merchants and partners. At one point in my career I was responsible for coordinating efforts in that arena. Since I have switched to a more family friendly career I have lost all of these benefits. I could still use them! I could still be getting enormous freebies and discounts; but I choose not to. I personally would not feel right about it. I could try and justify it somehow by all of the time that I gave as a salaried employee and all of the times called in for emergencies and never compensated. Would it still be right? NO!

    Bottom line it is these kinds of values that have major decay in our society. Do not ever compromise your ethics and integrity for anything. You will be the one that has to live with it! Greed can become your master and you certainly do not want that.
    Robert Bolar REALTOR® for Utah Homes
    Coldwell Banker
    "Selling Utah One Home At A Time" SellUtah.com or OwnUtah.com
    Cell: 801-920-4620
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    Fax: 801-475-8115
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by blockburner2700
    I pay well over a hundred dollars a month for cellular phone service that sucks but is better than all the rest. A hundred dollars a month! Do you think that getting over on $15, $20 or even $25 a month is wrong? It's wrong that you don't have a reasonable alternative! How it is now, you can either choose "bad" or "worse". I wouldn't consider it dishonest or unethical. I would consider it clever, proactive and a kick in the a** for "big brother"! These corporations make way too much money and I'm not seeing a penny!

    You wouldn't consider it unethical or dishonest....that is becuase you are a freaking thief!

    Guess you skipped class (East Oakland, I'm not surprised) the day they taught morals. Or maybe your parents didn't teach you that either.

    This is a luxury product...this is not food, or healthcare. Get over yourself.

    And the "big brother", anti-corp comments - please. You vote with your $.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    I just called, it is a no go. They are going to want some information from you. Supervisor, store number, etc. Nice try though. Anyone else have a discount plan I might qualify for?
    Yes, there is. If you sign up as an Avon rep., you can qualify for a 15% discount off your monthly MRC with Sprint. I have heard (have not done this) that it costs $15 to sign up with Avon. You are legit and will get the discount...and feel free to order stuff from the Avon catalog


    A few important things to note. You will become a business customer, and the business department will handle your account. Your bill cycle date will change, and therefore your account will be prorated to reflect the new date. Bottom line worst case scenario, your next month's bill could be as much as double, but you'll have that much longer to pay it as well. It's best if you go in aware of this, or change your account at a time closest to the new bill cycle to avoid so much proration (and the larger bill that results.) It can also play a factor if you have a larger MRC and a spending limit. That could put you over your spending limit and cause your phone to get shut off.

    Things change with Sprint, so double check the info I gave you with the Sprint Business dept. before making the change. These Sprint discounts are based on volume agreements with your employer, and they do change depending on the total volume. Discounts range from 5% to 25%, but what was 25% last year may have changed and gone down or vice versa. Your bill will automatically reflect the changes, and thus no call is needed.

    Good luck with this and let me know what you find.
  9. #29  
    blockburner2700 I know you've taken some heat from your comments, but really, what big bucks have these companies made? They are managing to make their loan payments, but have you seen the restructuring, layoffs, bankcruptcies, and merging taking place in this industry? ATT & Cingular, Qwest selling off their towers and equipment to Sprint and Verizon, Cricket's reorganization under bankcruptcy...?

    If they didn't have the cash flow they do have, they couldn't qualify for the loans to upgrade their data paths. Sprint couldn't borrow 1 billion (no, they don't have it on hand) to go with EV-DO. We'd be left with stagnating technology and then we'd have the audacity to complain that all we have is wireless web. These companies aren't raking in the big bucks, they're in debt but focusing on the long term results.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    You wouldn't consider it unethical or dishonest....that is becuase you are a freaking thief!

    Guess you skipped class (East Oakland, I'm not surprised) the day they taught morals. Or maybe your parents didn't teach you that either.
    lol that's HARSH!

    why is everybody being so preachy here about ethics and morals?
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library of President George W. Bush. Both of his books have been lost. Presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president was devastated, as he had not finished coloring the second one...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri
    lol that's HARSH!

    why is everybody being so preachy here about ethics and morals?
    Guess they haven't read the bits in the bible about casting stones, planks of wood etc.
    It is theft though, so anyone who does perform this scam will BURN IN HELL! Etc. etc.
    Animo et Fide
  12. #32  
    i have a feeling some of the people being preachy work for Sprint
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library of President George W. Bush. Both of his books have been lost. Presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president was devastated, as he had not finished coloring the second one...
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri
    lol that's HARSH!

    why is everybody being so preachy here about ethics and morals?
    If the truth is harsh, so be it.

    Why? Because there are so many dishonest losers.

    The world runs on trust...if you aren't part of the solution, you are part fo the problem.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    If the truth is harsh, so be it.

    Why? Because there are so many dishonest losers.

    The world runs on trust...if you aren't part of the solution, you are part fo the problem.
    How does name calling and putting people down (being harsh) fit into being part of the solution? It may alienate and serve someone to be quiet, but it doesn't make 'em stop -they just go away and stop listening to you.

    Oh, and I bet there are more than a few lawyers who would smile after reading, "the world runs on trust."
  15. #35  
    I'd like to think that my response made my position clear while not putting anyone down. I don't think that that helps matters at all. And, for the record, I can certainly sympathize with those who might want to take advantage of this thing. Sprint is not a small company and when it restructures and lays off people it isn't always because they're just unlucky. And when a big company like that does those things, do you think that the top execs are taking sizeable pay cuts? Not likely. The ones who suffer are the working class. But I don't want to get too off track. My point is that, in this case, the issue to me is less about whether or not Sprint "deserves" it or can afford it, but rather what it does to you. As OwnUtah said, it's not just about what it does to them, it's about what it does to you.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  16. TxDot's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri
    lol that's HARSH!

    why is everybody being so preachy here about ethics and morals?
    Why is it that when someone speaks out against unethical behavior they are being "preachy"? Why can't it be that we don't like unethical behavior? Besides, I would rather see peer pressure from fellow Treo users applied than an official entity of some sort trying to make someone see the error of their ways.
  17. #37  
    I was thinking about this thread some more and I was curious as to whether these companies pay Sprint for the discount or if it's some sort of bulk discount. If it's a bulk discount, then I see less morally wrong with lying for some reason. I think it's just that I believe if John Smith who works for Chevron gets to pay $x amount for y service, I should pay the same for the same service. By not giving me the same rate, isn't Sprint basically discriminating against me for not working at one of their preferred companies? And if that is the case, would it be really wrong of me to add a wrong (lying about the company I work for) to a wrong (their company discrimination) to make a right?

    Any thoughts on this view? How would you feel if Amazon.com charged different prices based on something arbitrary (I consider the company that I work for to be arbitrary).
  18. #38  
    bmacfarland, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes on these things, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. My wild guess would be that this is sort of viewed as advertising. By Sprint offering this discount to Company X employees, they're hoping to capture a good percentage of that company's employees via them being told about the discount via the company "discount" web page, flyer, etc. They get listed as a company that offers a discount but don't pay for an ad in that flyer, web page, etc. Now, for the general market, they do pay for advertising.

    This all leads me to ask another question...what percentage of Sprint's revenues are used towards advertising? Is it more or less than the typical "employee discount" that we're discussing?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I was thinking about this thread some more and I was curious as to whether these companies pay Sprint for the discount or if it's some sort of bulk discount. If it's a bulk discount, then I see less morally wrong with lying for some reason. I think it's just that I believe if John Smith who works for Chevron gets to pay $x amount for y service, I should pay the same for the same service. By not giving me the same rate, isn't Sprint basically discriminating against me for not working at one of their preferred companies? And if that is the case, would it be really wrong of me to add a wrong (lying about the company I work for) to a wrong (their company discrimination) to make a right?

    Any thoughts on this view? How would you feel if Amazon.com charged different prices based on something arbitrary (I consider the company that I work for to be arbitrary).

    two wrongs dont make a right. Never have.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by blockburner2700
    I pay well over a hundred dollars a month for cellular phone service that sucks but is better than all the rest. A hundred dollars a month! Do you think that getting over on $15, $20 or even $25 a month is wrong? It's wrong that you don't have a reasonable alternative! How it is now, you can either choose "bad" or "worse". I wouldn't consider it dishonest or unethical. I would consider it clever, proactive and a kick in the a** for "big brother"! These corporations make way too much money and I'm not seeing a penny!
    I don't believe it's the money that's the problem, it's the power that comes with it. Corporations like Microsoft and the RIAA cripple our economy because they are too greedy and make it hard for new development. MS is trying to double the amount of patents they have to keep anyone from entering the picture. The RIAA is trying to pretend that everyone is a criminal just because they don't have the money to buy every CD they want (we got college to pay for, leave us alone till we at least have a real job). Even though their sales keep going up it's not "as much as they want." Sorry this is OT, but I just think this sucks for everyone. I promote new development like the great work the developers for treo software do.
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