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  1.    #1  
    Hello-

    Please accept my apologies if this is a repeat post...but I could not find one that answered all of my questions.

    I am a long time Palm user that was forced to switch over to a Blackberry. With Verizon's recent announcement that it will carry the Treo, I am trying to make my case that I should be allowed to move back to the Palm platform.

    I am getting pushback from our Telco department because they say they Treo is far inferior to the Blackberry. Main points are below, can someone please confirm/deny?

    1. Although the Treo does Sync with the desktop, it only does so when connected. For example, if you are traveling and get 50 email message and read them all and delete 10 of them, that only takes place on the handheld. Your Outlook account will not mirror that until you physically HotSync with your PC. (In a Blackberry, if I open it on my handheld, it is marked open in Outlook the next time I open Outlook, same holds true for filed messages or deleted messages...one does not have to go thru the manual Sync process).

    2. You have to 'pull' your emails down in a Treo. Meaning that you must open your mail client and send/receive. (In a Blackberry, emails are always pushed out to you).

    Can someone please shed some feedback on this? I desperately want to move to a Treo...but need some info to debunk this feedback. Thanks!
  2. #2  
    this is a many-threaded discussion, with many issues and variables. What BB has going for it is that BB users have an account on the BES server, behind the firewall, that connects over to Exchange. The treo does not have that out of the box (logically, since it's just the device, and not server software). So - there are various solutions out there that can deliver BB-like functionality, but they'd all require some software purchase on a server (just like BB did when you guys got that). Examples are Good, Infowave, Visto, SEVEN - all those guys offer server-side (and that's the critical distinction) software that will connect to Exchange, just like the BES does.

    Now - having said all that, there are ways to deliver a quasi-BB experience, depending on your specific needs. If you are able to leave your PC connected to your network all the time, you can use what are called 'mail redirector' programs to push mail out to you, and sync meetings/mail, etc, just like BB does. That's what I do, since I work from home, and have a VPN connection to my company's Exchange server. I also don't <usually> need to take my laptop with me when I travel - I use my treo for mail and such, and take any presentations, etc on a USB keychain drive and connect to the client PC. That scenario, of course, may not work for everyone. Examples of some redirector programs are Sprint's Business Connection (if you use them for your carrier) SEVEN, Visto (those guys have both server side and redirector-side apps), BaseJet, and probably a ton more. I use and like Visto.

    So then the bottom line is that your IT folks have already invested in the BES server, and won't want to support anything else. You may have heard that PalmSource (not PalmOne) is planning on incorporating a BB client into an upcoming version of the underlying OS. That's an unknown timeframe, and since PalmOne makes the treo now, there's no way to know if they'll end up taking that portion of the OS, if they have a choice. Don't plan on seeing that BB client anytime soon.
    if your personal situation can support it, I'd go with a redirector. I fully sync wirelessly (email and meeting accept/decline) and also have mail pushed out to me.

    Good luck and let's see what others have to say on this.
  3. #3  
    If your company wants to support a more open platform for wireless email, they can convert to GoodLink. Its just like the service that blackberry provides but more, and you are not stuck with a BlackBerry device (supports Palm, PPC, BlackBerry, and soon support for symbian). Check my signature for more information.
  4. Quake97's Avatar
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    #4  
    I prefer the Seven solution, which is what Sprint uses. It wireless syncs your calendar and address book too. It can even give you access to a certain folder on your desktop that you share. Its AWESOME.

    Email redirectors work great for people with anal IT departments, like mine. They've been working on a wireless email solution for month now. Yeah, right.

    Joe
  5. #5  
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $you$ $cannot$ $wirelessly$ $sync$ $your$ $calendar$ $over$ $SprintBC$.
  6. #6  
    Sprint's BC uses Seven's technology, but only the current Seven beta supports calendar sync, as far as I know. It's not a stretch to believe that this may be incorporated into Sprint's BC sometime after Seven releases the functonality into production.
  7. #7  
    good is the way to go, but your it guys will probaby not want to add the second. We run both good and bes. Good does not work with the new phone blackberries. Good however does do wireless reconciliation and is much eaiser to set up than bes. nothing on the client at all. I will probably eval the bb client on my 600 when it is available.
  8. #8  
    I have both the Treo and a Blackberry 6200 series. Once the Blackberry service is available for the Treo the Blackberry is as good as dumped!

    I guess everyone has to choose what they like. But having used both myself, I'll take the Treo every day of the week.
  9. #9  
    Perhaps this is obvious to some, but I don't get the true advantage of "push" (Blackberry) vs. "pull" (Treo) e-mail to the end user. Pulling e-mail by polling an SMTP server uses more network bandwidth, but as long as you have an unlimited data plan, who cares? When pulling e-mail you'll have to wait up to 15 minutes before you're aware of a new message, but that doesn't seem like a big deal. Are there other advantages to push e-mail that I'm not aware of?

    Some providers (like T-Mobile) can send an SMS message when a new e-mail message arrives, but that's not a great solution if you get a lot of e-mail. Too bad there's no way to get the e-mail client to automatically get new messages when a specific type of SMS message is recieved (VeriChat does this trick to get new IM messages).
  10. #10  
    palmuser99 - ask the same question over in a BlackBerry forum on PDAStreet or Howard Forums. You may get a different perspective.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dseese
    Perhaps this is obvious to some, but I don't get the true advantage of "push" (Blackberry) vs. "pull" (Treo) e-mail to the end user. Pulling e-mail by polling an SMTP server uses more network bandwidth, but as long as you have an unlimited data plan, who cares? When pulling e-mail you'll have to wait up to 15 minutes before you're aware of a new message, but that doesn't seem like a big deal. Are there other advantages to push e-mail that I'm not aware of?
    To some I think that 15 minutes is a big deal. For instance if the e-mail is an automated alert that my company's servers went down, 15 minutes is going to be a very big deal.

    The only other advantage I can think of is that if I delete it on my Treo, I'd want the option to delete it on the server at the next update. I think you might get something like this with push, but I'm not sure, never used push.
  12. Minsc's Avatar
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    #12  
    dseese, speed is one consideration, but for me the bigger issue is battery life. Why have my Treo waste battery juice by polling for emails if non really exist? Secondarily, you do increase the possibility of a missed call during all of that polling. Both of these arguments are probably moot, however, if you receive a high volume of emails every day. -then there probably isn't much advantage to push.
    Also, to many of us geeks the idea of polling just seems a bit low-tech compared to push.
  13. #13  
    Unless calendar updates are critical, you might give a good email program, like Snappermail, a try. It is obviously a "pull" option, but works well and offers good attachment support. Although BB was first to market (and there alone for a long time) I just don't see the attraction. Phone service with a Blackberry is still a cludge, and the Treo can do so much more than a Blackberry. Good luck in the battle with IT.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by dseese
    Too bad there's no way to get the e-mail client to automatically get new messages when a specific type of SMS message is recieved (VeriChat does this trick to get new IM messages).

    have you heard of treo helper?

    I have my work email (GW) set up, via a rule, to SMS my 600 when a specific person emails me.

    When the SMS comes in, TreoHelper recognizes the text I gave the sms and then has snapper mail do a pull. Works great.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
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  15. #15  
    dstrauss - to my knowledge, Snapper doesn't offer any type of solution for Exchange, right? (unless one can get one's IT group to open up a POP3 or IMAP port, which is probably unlikely). Like the original poster, I too am an Exchange user, and have lusted after Snapper from afar - is there a way to get Snapper to work without a POP or IMAP port (I didn't think there was). Let me know....thanks.
  16. #16  
    If there is any chance that you can run Goodlink....run dont walk to your IT dept and suggest that they take advantage of the free demo.

    It took our IT guys less than 30 min to get us setup and they were sold.

    I have been on goodlink for 18 months.....I used to use a blackberry....Goodlink wins hands down. My assistant can put a new entry into my calendar at the office or a new contact, and seconds later its on my Treo, even when I am across the country.

    Just so awesome!

    Cipro
    Last edited by Cipro; 07/14/2004 at 09:22 AM.
    God is not a Democrat or a Republican, but he is Pro-Life!
  17. #17  
    The best part of the whole Blueberry thing is that the phone portion is just flat crap. We have had individuals turning off the phone part and getting an additional phone. I have been testing the TREO since last October with no issues. Wish I had the calander, email and contacts, but pull email will just have to do for now.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipro
    If there is any chance that you can run Goodlink....run dont walk to your IT dept and suggest that they take advantage of the free demo.

    It took our IT guys less than 30 min to get us setup and they were sold.

    I have been on goodlink for 18 months.....I used to use a blackberry....Goodlink wins hands down. My assistant can put a new entry into my calendar at the office or a new contact, and seconds later its on my Treo, even when I am across the country.

    Just so awesome!

    Cipro
    Yep. Everyday we get BlackBery customers who want to try GoodLink with our 30 free pilot. I have NEVER had anyone not purchase GoodLink after trying it. It is that good (no pun intended).
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    have you heard of treo helper?

    I have my work email (GW) set up, via a rule, to SMS my 600 when a specific person emails me.

    When the SMS comes in, TreoHelper recognizes the text I gave the sms and then has snapper mail do a pull. Works great.
    Cool! Thanks, Felipe, I'm going to give this a try. According to my own arguments, its not really neccessary, but I do "feel" better about not having to poll accross a wireless network. On the other hand, I have to pay 5 cents for every SMS message. Hmmm. I'll play with it anyway just to see if I can get it to work.

    Battery life is affected by polling. I poll every 15 minutes all day long which causes me to loose about 10% of the battery charge by end of day. If you make a lot of voice calls, that 10% could be an issue I suppose.

    If I understand correctly, polling could cause you to miss a call if you use a CDMA-based network (Sprint/Verizon), but not with GSM/GPRS.

    If you are a heavy e-mail user and want to get your messages ASAP, it seems a reasonable solution for e-mail would be to use a Treo on a GSM network with an unlimited SMS plan and use Treo Helper. If it were me, I'd rather have that than a Blackberry and it should work without have to involve your company's IT department. Of course, this only addresses e-mail.
  20. Minsc's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by dseese
    If I understand correctly, polling could cause you to miss a call if you use a CDMA-based network (Sprint/Verizon), but not with GSM/GPRS.
    This is incorrect, both CDMA and GSM versions will send the call to voicemail during an active data transfer.
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