Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39
  1. #21  
    I agree. 64 megs is the minimum for me. I don't like running apps off memory cards (mainly because I have three different SD cards) so i keep them all on memory. I'm down to 3.5 megs free, and thats without many of the programs that I like but waste too much space, and also doesn't include the 2.0 meg cache I have set for Blazer.
  2. #22  
    Donald Nguyen as manielse mentioned there are some applications that do require far more than 32MB of space and cannot be run from SD cards.

    You mentioned:
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Nguyen
    Some of you always want it all. Why should I fork over $700 or $800 for a unit that could only cost $600 with what I need?
    You don't see the issue here. The $600 unit does not have all that some of us need. Some of us do need that extra space. Applications like GPS take far more than 32MB if you want to load the maps needed for a ride that goes a few hours. Plenty of people travel on the road and could use the space if it were available.

    If you only want to pay for a Treo with 32MB of RAM then that is fine. But I do hope PalmOne makes a unit with more space for those of us who want it and are willing to pay for it.

    We are the consumer. We should want it "ALL". That is what keeps innovations moving forward. It's called market demand.
  3. jglev's Avatar
    Posts
    403 Posts
    Global Posts
    411 Global Posts
    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Donald Nguyen as manielse mentioned there are some applications that do require far more than 32MB of space and cannot be run from SD cards.

    You mentioned:


    You don't see the issue here. The $600 unit does not have all that some of us need. Some of us do need that extra space. Applications like GPS take far more than 32MB if you want to load the maps needed for a ride that goes a few hours. Plenty of people travel on the road and could use the space if it were available.

    If you only want to pay for a Treo with 32MB of RAM then that is fine. But I do hope PalmOne makes a unit with more space for those of us who want it and are willing to pay for it.

    We are the consumer. We should want it "ALL". That is what keeps innovations moving forward. It's called market demand.
    I totally agree. 32 Megs for a $600 unit won't be seen competitive in today's market and seems like a step in the wrong direction. Even if it were "enough" ram, it will look inadequate to the consumer who sees other Palm OS devices with at least 64 Megs and PocketPC devices with 128 Megs.
    Jeff
  4. #24  
    I could use more space. I run programs that eat up space and it's nothing more frustrating than not being able to Pictureshare or get on the Web because you don't have enough internal space without physically making room.
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

    Phone history: Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo Centro, Pixi, Centro again, 800w, Treo 755p, Palm Pre
  5. #25  
    Here's the funny thing:
    Flexible Storage Capacity
    Highly efficient operating system w/ 8MB of masked ROM and 32MB (*) of SDRAM stores thousands of addresses, years of appointments, hundreds of to-do items, notes, memos, and more than 50 applications (**).

    * 24MB actual storage capacity.
    ** Based on an average application size of 50K.
    So really you only have 24MB of space, we know that but don't advertise it as 32MB. Then they pretend that 24MB is enough to do everything you would want to do and they assume it will all be text based databases.

    Now let's just pretend, the Treo Ace is designed to the specs we saw. Will the OS require more than the current 8MB? The two current models (Tungsten T3 and Tunsten C) that currently have a 400MHz processor and 320x320 require at least 12MB for the OS. This would then leave us with 20MB for apps. What are they gonna do for advertising then, base it around 40k apps?

    The fact is, they will need to add more memory to this device to be successfull.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by oscarc
    And you know this, how?

    Let's assume the difference in cost between 32 and 64 mb is $1 per unit. Not a big cost difference, yes?

    One of my former employers was a consumer electronics company -- with mass-market devices, $1 a unit difference in cost is a huge amount. I've seen features cut on $500 devices because of a 50 cent per unit savings.

    Here's why: If you figure PalmOne expects to sell 1 million of these in a year, $1 a unit more in costs translates to one million dollars less in profit. Do you think that upping the memory to 64mb would generate enough extra sales to make up that one million dollars? How many additional people would buy it if it had 64MB but not if it had 32MB? (Especially since you can add as much memory as you want via SD.)
    Look at it the other way. How many sales will they lose to 64 MB and even 128 MB Pocket PC phones like the iPaq 6300 and the XDA 3 because the Treo looks less advanced?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by mfowler
    Look at it the other way. How many sales will they lose to 64 MB and even 128 MB Pocket PC phones like the iPaq 6300 and the XDA 3 because the Treo looks less advanced?
    That's the key question. My personal guess is around 1000. Why? Outside of TreoCentral, most users DO NOT CARE. 24MB usable is more than plenty.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I understand this logic, but at the same time, they could charge $5 more for each unit and make more money. Sure you can say less people would buy it at $5 more, but I don't know of any studies proving that.
    I didn't think you would need a study to realize that the higher the price, the less people will buy it. If $5 didn't make a difference, they could raise the price by $5 every week, and sales would never go down.

    Also, if P1 raised the wholesale price by $5, the retail price would probably go up around $25-$50. I don't really know why, but that's been my consistent experience. (They can't sell the phone for $404.99 instead of $399.99 anyways.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    To do your math 2000 more people worldwide would have to buy the device to make up for the extra cost.
    Nope, remember that $1 per unit is pure profit. If you assume a profit of $100 per device (this is on the generous side, I think), they would need to sell around an additional 10000 units to break even.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    OS updates have to be in main memory and they are sizable.
    Only during the update itself -- afterwards they are in flash.
  9. #29  
    I hope everyone makes a pick in the little poll I made. So far over 80% say they want more than 32MB .

    Quote Originally Posted by oscarc
    That's the key question. My personal guess is around 1000. Why? Outside of TreoCentral, most users DO NOT CARE. 24MB usable is more than plenty.
    I highly doubt that. PC sales have proven that higher numbers result in higher sales. Even when the consumer does not know what all the "mega-this, giga-that" means they want more of it. And they are going to try and do some comparisons. When they see one unit has more "mega-this" than the other they will buy the unit with more and feel they made a good choice.
  10. #30  
    It's not just more memory. The Treo Ace should come with an OS that supports multithreading and a faster processor.. Browser pages sometimes take so long to appear because of the speed of rendering. My impression is that the Treo 600 cannot download and render concurrently.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  11. #31  
    From what i have heard the reason for PalmOne putting 32 mb rather than 64 is an overstock and a contract with the 32 mb mem.. I could be wrong, but makes sence.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob600
    I found a big space saver is that D2G 'sub-apps' (SS, Word, Present) can go on the SD. Only the Documents apps has to stay in RAM.
    I wonder if anyone has tried to store D2G in flash. Doing that also frees up space. I did it on my T|3 but havent had the nerve to try it on the Treo.
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  13. #33  
    reports are that jackflash doesn't support treo 600 yet..

    i put docs 2 go in my nx80 flash
    worked just great
  14. RobM's Avatar
    Posts
    477 Posts
    Global Posts
    478 Global Posts
    #34  
    Although I agree with your analysis of cost performance, 1 million dollars means nothing considering what the profit margin is on this phone, and in addition, they spend more than that on advertising alone...I believe that palmone, if they were going to cut features out would not be becuase of a $1 delta in ram cost, it would be because they didnt hit their market window. All products have a market window, in other words, when the product has to be out on the market to gain most profit and market share, due to other products being released.

    but this is just my opinion...

    rob


    Quote Originally Posted by oscarc
    And you know this, how?

    Let's assume the difference in cost between 32 and 64 mb is $1 per unit. Not a big cost difference, yes?

    One of my former employers was a consumer electronics company -- with mass-market devices, $1 a unit difference in cost is a huge amount. I've seen features cut on $500 devices because of a 50 cent per unit savings.

    Here's why: If you figure PalmOne expects to sell 1 million of these in a year, $1 a unit more in costs translates to one million dollars less in profit. Do you think that upping the memory to 64mb would generate enough extra sales to make up that one million dollars? How many additional people would buy it if it had 64MB but not if it had 32MB? (Especially since you can add as much memory as you want via SD.)
  15. #35  
    I love this sort of conversation

    JohnDoe: I need more than 32MB of built-in RAM
    JaneDoe: No you don't!

    Let's get something straight. If someone says they need more RAM, that's the end of the discussion. It's not something that can be ARGUED on a message board.

    I too think the "32MB" of built-in RAM on the Treo is too little. I regularly end up running out of space or hitting the 1MB free mark. It's not so much the extra apps I've loaded as it is the dynamic nature of memory demand. By that, I mean some apps eat a lot more space as you use them

    - The cameraphone
    - SnapperMail downloads
    - GPS maps (as mentioned)
    - Vindigo databases

    The fact is that PalmOne has created a VERY extensible device but hasn't provided the base level infrastructure to really take advantage of that extensibility. This results in frustrated users. A rough analogy would be an automanufacturer that built all sorts of useful cargo-holding features into the vehicle, but limited the max towing capacity. Imagine a VW Beetle with a boat hitch.

    those are extreme examples, but my point hopefully remains. The next version of the Treo needs to have at least 64MB built in or PalmOne is truly cheating its customers.

    ... besides, the newer Palm devices (like Tapwave) are coming with that larger built-in capacity, so to remain competitive, PalmOne needs to get over the stinginess
    - ag47
  16. RobM's Avatar
    Posts
    477 Posts
    Global Posts
    478 Global Posts
    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by agnok47
    I love this sort of conversation

    JohnDoe: I need more than 32MB of built-in RAM
    JaneDoe: No you don't!

    Let's get something straight. If someone says they need more RAM, that's the end of the discussion. It's not something that can be ARGUED on a message board.

    I too think the "32MB" of built-in RAM on the Treo is too little. I regularly end up running out of space or hitting the 1MB free mark. It's not so much the extra apps I've loaded as it is the dynamic nature of memory demand. By that, I mean some apps eat a lot more space as you use them

    - The cameraphone
    - SnapperMail downloads
    - GPS maps (as mentioned)
    - Vindigo databases

    The fact is that PalmOne has created a VERY extensible device but hasn't provided the base level infrastructure to really take advantage of that extensibility. This results in frustrated users. A rough analogy would be an automanufacturer that built all sorts of useful cargo-holding features into the vehicle, but limited the max towing capacity. Imagine a VW Beetle with a boat hitch.

    those are extreme examples, but my point hopefully remains. The next version of the Treo needs to have at least 64MB built in or PalmOne is truly cheating its customers.

    ... besides, the newer Palm devices (like Tapwave) are coming with that larger built-in capacity, so to remain competitive, PalmOne needs to get over the stinginess
    Genericly speaking, I disagree with the "...end of story" rationale. This is infact a discussion board which means Discuss. It would be better to ask, why do you need more ram, do you have specific applications that use up what you have? do you need more ram storage? etc. The answer may be that the person just thinks 32meg is too little, when in fact they can get away with the 32meg plus additionial smart media cards for ram storage.
    Or maybe they truely have applications that do use up every little bit of ram in which that particullar individual has a valid point. But the key word here is discuss...

    just my 2 cents
    rob
  17. #37  
    I think agnok47's point is that if I need the space then I need it. Everyone sees the SD card slot on the top of their Treos and many like me have multiple cards we have to juggle just to do what we need/want to do on a regular basis.

    If you don't need more space, then great for you. I hope PalmOne keeps making Treos with only 32MB RAM just for you. I on the other hand want a Treo with more space on board and I'm willing to pay the additional premium for that. Apple does this with the IPod. Computer makers do this with computers. And in both other cases they make good money off customers who have no problem paying extra for more.

    The issue here is that the post saying things like "for most smart phone users, 32MB is enough" are totally wrong. Polls like this one prove it is not enough for most. In that poll less than 15% of the people responding to the poll feel 32 MB is enough.

    For those who only need 32MB, great for you, enjoy. At the same time that is no reason to assume or even infer that the majority is on your side when there is much proof to the contrary.
  18. #38  
    and by the way, I think ev-do will be my reason to upgrade again. if treo ace doesn't have it, I will save money and enjoy the t600 for another year or so.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by RobM
    Genericly speaking, I disagree with the "...end of story" rationale. This is infact a discussion board which means Discuss. It would be better to ask, why do you need more ram, do you have specific applications that use up what you have? do you need more ram storage? etc.
    .....
    just my 2 cents
    rob
    good point Rob. I'm definitely not trying to silecence the discussion board! And I may try out some of the SD card lauching/swapping suggestions that have come up. I just take mild (and VERY mild) offense when someone basically tells another person that they don't need what they think they need.

    honestly i witnessed a bad case of this on sprintusers.com almost a year ago. Some guy said Sprint didn't have good coverage in his area, and another user tried to convince him that Sprint did in fact have the coverage. Point is, the guy with the Sprint prob had an undeniable experience and someone else was telling him that's not true.

    ok enough with the human rights lesson-of-the-day
    - ag47
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions