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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Personal attack are not allowed here, consider yourself warned..
    Thanks for keeping the Forum at a quality level!
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

    Phone history: Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo Centro, Pixi, Centro again, 800w, Treo 755p, Palm Pre
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Ahh...yes I stand corrected! Btw, I hope you find yourself lurking around the "Treo Ace" so you can once again break the news here at Treocentral! Considering how much traffic has increased around here, it would be even crazier than the original thread!!
    But with all the false leads we've had (how may 610 threads have there been??) how many people would believe anyone who says anything?

    Louis
  3. #23  
    can I remind everyone that a new treo was introduced. The camareless one.

    I think palm will annouce a new model later this summer.

    They have the lead, they should keep the pressure on. Cut the antenna, bt (or wifi) and hi-res (the only thing I really want). how hard can that be?
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  4. #24  
    Agreed BlueTooth, 320x320, remove aerial and ... maybe 128mb built in.
  5. #25  
    I'll deal with a low-res screen for some Wifi... and in place of bluetooth that kills battery life, how about some USB OTG??? That feature could make the Treo better then some laptops out there right now... and from what I have heard the current Treo processor has USB host capablilities. And we def need more built in memory, 64MB at the least. And how about getting a new gosh darn camera!!! :-D
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Why couldn't the ad campaign just be part of a strategy in anticipation of the new updated Treo release?
    Because the advertisements I saw that P1 splattered everywhere in the airport consists solely of a giant photo of the Treo 600 with a few words explaining why it's the latest and absolute greatest cell phone in the world. It would be pretty confusing to the average consumer to release a higher end model during such an advertisement campaign.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    can I remind everyone that a new treo was introduced. The camareless one.

    I think palm will annouce a new model later this summer.
    Ripping out the camera and putting some plastic filler in the hole - without even removing the Take a Picture function from the OS so that it lets you try and gives you an error - hardly qualifies as a new Treo. I'm thinking we could've done that ourselves if we had the nerve to try it.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    Because the advertisements I saw that P1 splattered everywhere in the airport consists solely of a giant photo of the Treo 600 with a few words explaining why it's the latest and absolute greatest cell phone in the world. It would be pretty confusing to the average consumer to release a higher end model during such an advertisement campaign.
    This is exactly what I'm worried about. I'm not a patient person, and the wait for the new Treo is killing me. Hearing something like this doesn't assure me a bit about the new Treo coming out in the next few months. I have debated really hard whether to just buy a 600 right now and try to upgrade later (because it may take 6mths, who knows).

    User "Indicator", do you have any comment about this advertising campaign?

    Thanks,
    TJ
    Pager > Nokia ???? > Nextel i1000 > Nextel i1000 plus > T-Mobile Sidekick (B&W) > Nokia 3650 > Treo 650 GSM Cingular - Bought via TreoCentral (Feb 2005)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    Because the advertisements I saw that P1 splattered everywhere in the airport consists solely of a giant photo of the Treo 600 with a few words explaining why it's the latest and absolute greatest cell phone in the world. It would be pretty confusing to the average consumer to release a higher end model during such an advertisement campaign.

    Makes sense to me. It seems like PalmOne is trying to maitain the positive buzz the Treo600 has been receiving for nearly a year now. The current model is getting long in the tooth and the ad campaign is a perfect way to market and prop up the existing model to clear out inventory for the next upgrade. When the rumored "Treo Ace" or whatever is finally released, it will be able to ride the momentum of the ad campaign PalmOne already started months ago with the previous version. As a result, it seems P1 is simply trying to maintain the hype around this phone so consumers don't loose interest in anticipation of the next version...

    Recall, JH etc are pros at marketing here. JH specifically held a Treo600 in his hand last year during a press conference pic announcing Handspring's Merger with Palm just b/c he knew enthusiast sites like Treocentral would catch the new device and create grassroots interest on the web. I would gather they're trying to do something similar here as well...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  10. #30  
    Now that I think about it, I believe that the advertisement posters I saw just said Treo - not Treo 600. If a new Treo (assuming for a sec it exists) were released with the same form factor as the 600 then the advertisements would in effect hype it as well because who would know which one it was?

    I think it's reasonable to believe that the form factor will not change much. It won't get bigger because it would hurt sales. And it won't get smaller because a faster processor and hi-res screen will demand a powerful battery.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    There is no overt hard evidence that the TREO 600 is selling welll to end-customers.

    If you have that hard evidence, please post a link to it.

    [note - today is the earnings call - maybe PalmOne will finally reveal some sell-THROUGH numbers. Maybe the Sun will rise in the west, too]
    Did the sun rise in the west today?

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6926
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  12. #32  
    Nope, sure didn't - not one sell-through number revealed.

    Now then, did you read EITHER my post that you actually quoted OR the PalmInfocenter article to which you linked?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Nope, sure didn't - not one sell-through number revealed.

    Now then, did you read EITHER my post that you actually quoted OR the PalmInfocenter article to which you linked?

    so according to that no one is has a treo? since the carriers arent reporting any sold, no one has one.

    So why are the carriers buying 500,000 devices from palm one?
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  14. #34  
    [My last comment in this thread about this since it's way off-topic and is just for this subthread]
    PalmOne is the one not stating sell-through, not the carriers - Indeed, PalmOne mentions sell-through ALL THE TIME in these calls but NEVER quantifies it (e.g., they use sell-through to compute their revenue numbers).

    There is a reason for that.

    Gettiing people to jump to the incorrect conclusion that sell-through is, say, 100% by simply misunderstanding what they mean when they talk about "demand exceeding supply" is more of that "buzz" that PalmOne likes to generate - they don't care that people get it wrong, they just want people to talk about it.
  15. #35  
    [QUOTE=SeldomVisitor]Nope, sure didn't - not one sell-through number revealed.
    QUOTE]

    The article I posted a link to clearly states that p1's CFO commented that, "Smartphones accounted for $75.4 million of revenue, 151,000 Treo 600 units were sold and demand continues to outpace supply.... palmOne expects to sell between 250-260 thousand Treos during the next quarter... Currently, handhelds make up 72% of revenue, while smartphones account for 28%. palmOne expects that figure to change to a 50-50 split in FY 2005"

    If 151,000 isn't the number you're looking for then I don't know what you mean by "sell-through number". Maybe PalmOne doesn't either
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #36  
    [one last reply since yours is a common misunderstanding]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    The article I posted a link to clearly states that...151,000
    Treo 600 units were sold and demand continues to outpace supply...

    If 151,000 isn't the number you're looking for then I don't know what you mean by "sell-through number". Maybe PalmOne doesn't either
    That number - below PalmOne's estimates, BTW - is the sell-IN number - the number of TREO 600s that PalmOne has shipped to other venues for final sale to end-customers eventually OR for final retuirn to Palmone if the initial sell-IN sale was like a consignment-type (whatever isn't sold by some deadline gets returned).

    That is, PalmOne talks a LOT about shipping TREOs out THEIR door but talks just about not at all about whether ir not the venues to which they have shipped a bunch of TREOs are themselves able to sell those TREOs to end-customers.

    151,000 sell-IN, not sell-THROUGH.

    It's unfortunate that PalmOne doesn't talk about that critically-important sell-THROUGH number - they have an excellent idea what it is, they discuss it, they use it, they simply never quantify it.

    In the past the sell-THROUGH number for prior TREO models - the functional equivalent to the TREO 600 except less-widely available - was on the order of 10,000 to maybe 20,000 per month - that is the "early adopter" rate. Since the TREO 600 CONTINUES to be an early-adopter device (PalmOne's words) one should expect its sell-THROUGH to be roughly the same while at the same time noting it IS more widely available so should have some unknown incremental increase simply from that (let us not forget that the TREO 600 is a VERY expensive cell phone - it appeals to those who don't care about that little fact - the geeks and rich - just like the prior models).

    The TREO 600 has now shipped about 400,000 units - if sell-THROUGH was 100% that means they're selling about 40,000 per month. But sell_THROUGH isn't anywhere near 100%. That suggests the sell-THROUGH is right there where the prior sell-through was, plus or minus.

    But we don't know for siure WHAT it is because they continue not to tell us.

    And the sun continues to rise in the east - how surprising!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    [one last reply since yours is a common misunderstanding]

    That number - below PalmOne's estimates, BTW - is the sell-IN number - the number of TREO 600s that PalmOne has shipped to other venues for final sale to end-customers eventually OR for final retuirn to Palmone if the initial sell-IN sale was like a consignment-type (whatever isn't sold by some deadline gets returned).

    That is, PalmOne talks a LOT about shipping TREOs out THEIR door but talks just about not at all about whether ir not the venues to which they have shipped a bunch of TREOs are themselves able to sell those TREOs to end-customers.

    151,000 sell-IN, not sell-THROUGH.

    It's unfortunate that PalmOne doesn't talk about that critically-important sell-THROUGH number - they have an excellent idea what it is, they discuss it, they use it, they simply never quantify it.

    In the past the sell-THROUGH number for prior TREO models - the functional equivalent to the TREO 600 except less-widely available - was on the order of 10,000 to maybe 20,000 per month - that is the "early adopter" rate. Since the TREO 600 CONTINUES to be an early-adopter device (PalmOne's words) one should expect its sell-THROUGH to be roughly the same while at the same time noting it IS more widely available so should have some unknown incremental increase simply from that (let us not forget that the TREO 600 is a VERY expensive cell phone - it appeals to those who don't care about that little fact - the geeks and rich - just like the prior models).

    The TREO 600 has now shipped about 400,000 units - if sell-THROUGH was 100% that means they're selling about 40,000 per month. But sell_THROUGH isn't anywhere near 100%. That suggests the sell-THROUGH is right there where the prior sell-through was, plus or minus.

    But we don't know for siure WHAT it is because they continue not to tell us.

    And the sun continues to rise in the east - how surprising!
    I understand what you mean but I can't tell from what I read on PalmInfocenter as to whether the 151,000 number is sell-in or sell-through as you put it. But the key is that they ARE using the word, "sold" - not shipped - which implies that if, even as you say they are not being sold to the end customer, they are at least being paid for by the venues reselling them. This is really the important part for P1 being that is what is generating their revenues. Also, at least a percentage of the 151,000 would have to include sales directly from P1's website which would be considered sell-through. So in that sense, at the very least a percentage of that number is sell-through.

    At any rate, the sell-through has to be pretty darn high if they've sold 151,000 out the door last quarter and expect another 250,000 - 260,000 out the door next quarter. After all, it's not in any carrier/venue's interest to buy 600's from P1 and just stockpile them.

    And BTW, looking at how good the 600's numbers are, I am once again skeptical of a new unit coming out in the next two months.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Reading
    Agreed BlueTooth, 320x320, remove aerial and ... maybe 128mb built in.
    BlueTooth: I am living fine without it, until I get it, at which point I will probably wonder how I lived without it, I guess.

    320x320: Yes, please.

    Aerial: Am I the only person who doesn't have a problem with the antenna? How else am I supposed to pull it out of the case? I use that thing all the time.

    128MB built in: More memory is always a good thing.

    Something I'd like to see that others probably don't care much about is boosted IR signal. I'd like to use it as a remote control, but I can't get it to work past 2.5 feet. I know this isn't a really big deal to most, and I doubt it will happen, but I really want it.

    EV-DO: Probably.
    --------------------
    When PalmOne announces a new Treo with most or all of these features, it will either be as a replacement for the 600, or as a higher priced alternative to the 600. If it will replace the 600, PalmOne will wait until sales of the 600 have died down considerably, probably not until Q2-Q3 2005, at which point the 600 would be sold at rock bottom prices to clear out inventory, as happened with the 300. I do not believe this will be the case. The difference in functionality between the 300 and the 600 is far greater than the expected difference between the 600 and the next Treo.

    If the next Treo will simply be a higher priced alternative to the 600, which I think is likely, PalmOne will still have to wait until they have sold sufficient numbers of the 600 to lower its price to about $300-$400 pre-incentive, thus pitting the 600 against higher-res, but arguably less functional, palm devices such as the Zire 72, Tungsten C, and Tungsten T3. If the price of the 600 were not lowered, PalmOne would have to charge $900 for the new device, just so that people would keep buying the 600, and I don't think $900 is a viable price point for the new product. More than likely, it will be introduced at $600-$700 (perhaps it will be the Treo 700 for $700? Perhaps not, that would start an ugly trend -- Treo 9000..., you get the point).

    It is my understanding that EV-DO devices will still be able to use 1xRTT in non-EV-DO areas, and thus EV-DO devices can be sold prior to EV-DO service being available. I expect, however, that Sprint/PalmOne will wait until at least a few markets have the service up and tested before releasing the next Treo (assuming that it does EV-DO). That, combined with the above speculation (this is all speculation, I do not claim to have any connections in the industry), would indicate a potential release of Q4 2004 in limited quantities, with supply catching up to demand sometime in Q1 2005.
  19. #39  
    I just want to point out that if you're ordering a Treo 600 off of Palm's web site, they state the ship date as being 4-6 weeks. It seems to me that for this to be true 9 months after the phone was released, especially for a phone costing $400+, it suggests that there is still a huge demand. I have no idea if buying the phones directly through the carriers themselves involves such a long ship time, but when their newest PDA, the Zire 72, has an expected ship date of 1-2 days, 4-6 weeks is really unbelievable..

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is a huge demand for these phones, wmy not capitalize on that demand by getting more models out so that people have a choice? My guess is that PalmOn'es management would point to their recent financial success to justify thei management style, but they're building up a lot of badwill. Lack of ANY kind of support for wi-fi/bluetooth cards being one of the major gripes,

    That said, if it takes PalmOne longer than 4 months to get a version of the Treo 600 out with bluetooth, you can bet your kids college money that I'm going to be buy either a series 60 smartphone or a (I shudder to say this) Pocket PC PDA. I'm not going to sit and wait for palmOne to pull their heads out of the ground before I get what I want. Palm turned themselves around once when they started to implementing multimedia features in their PDA's, I'm hoping they'll realize what the treo represents and not squander this opportunity like they've squandered so many others.

    Scott
  20. #40  
    We needed three more Treo 600's and checked with Sprint 3 weeks ago and were quoted $449 ($599 less $150 for 2 yr signup and new service)

    When we went to the Sprint store yesterday (6/29) to buy them, they rang up as $349 with 2yr signup/new service!

    Is this an across the board price cut at ALL Sprint outlets and ALL carriers? Is this the new price for a Treo600? Are they price cutting our Treo 600 model to prepare their warehouse and store shelves for a "new one" (610/ACE)?

    Just curious. Inquiring minds want to know.....
    "Arguing with a police officer is like mud wrestling a pig.
    Eventually you realize that the pig likes it."
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