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  1.    #1  
    I had never actually used a Tungten C until yesterday when I tried it out in an Apple Store. Totally blew me away. Incredibly fast and of course a 320x320 16bit screen makes pages look gorgeous. My Treo at it's fastest on the fastest browser is maybe 1/10th the speed on the web at best. I didn't realize what we're all missing. I would use a WiFi card all the time if it was available, especially now as more businesses have it. This capability for me is a must have for the next Treo. I find myself using browsers on the Treo less and less because of the glacial speed and WiFi would make it nearly perfect.
  2. #2  
    totally agree with you --

    many times in the past I've waved the WiFi flag in this forum, only to be met with hostility from the majority of posters here who only want more screen resolution and BT. Most here are satisfied with their Sprint and T-mobile Internet connectivity -- and don't appreciate how essential and transformative WiFi is.

    I certainly don't read every thread here, but I can't recall any great outcry in the wishlists, for future models to use industry standard SD slots.

    It will be unforgivable if the rumored 610 does not have both the power capability and the Palm drivers to use existing SD WiFi cards (and all other standard SD card devices).

    I have read that the reason that there are no Palm WiFi device drivers is that Palmsource is attempting to charge an exorbitant price to the card creators --

    Engadget.com wrote this:

    "...There are already a ton of these WiFi expansion cards available for Pocket PCs (including a new one from SanDisk that comes with 256MB of memory onboard as well), but maddeningly there still isnít a single one available for Palms. Our sources in the industry tell us that --there isnít a technical problem causing the holdup, rather palmOneís intransigence and insistence on squeezing a ridiculously one-sided deal out of the companies that make these expansion cards."
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/6562569681381003/

    the various Palm entities will blow their current advantage in smartphones if they don't SOON deliver WiFi to the Treo.

    I will reluctantly switch to the BenQ P50 when it comes out if the Treo is still non-WiFi capable.
    http://www.brighthand.com/article/BenQ_Showing_Off_P50
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/15/2004 at 02:37 AM.
  3. #3  
    There were a couple of notable threads crying for standardized SD slots when it was first published that the Treo might not ever be capable of wi-fi. For me wi-fi is bigger than bluetooth, but I can understand the people who bought a $30K Acura TL with bluetooth and expect a cutting-edge smartphone to work with it.

    As for engadget's report, it makes no sense. Palm has always been a high volume company and if they bring something that will make them a little money over a large number of devices (i.e. $5 off of a $25 bluetooth card), they'd take it and run. I suspect they don't want to cut off their tie to the carriers by giving people an option for quick/free data. Would people still pay $15 a month for vision if they got wi-fi in 90% of the places they are for free? I'm sure a large number would for total access. I'm sure a large number would just go it with wi-fi alone.
  4. #4  
    I'd rather have WiFi than BT, i think.
    Gabe Kangas
    Achievatron 2004 - ?
    Visor Deluxe -> Treo 300 -> TREO 600 -> Treo 650
  5. #5  
    my only issue with Wi-Fi is the dependence on having/hoping to find a hot spot to have the blazinngly fast connectivity. Yes, there are a lot of hot spots around, but it's not a PERVASIVE technology, yet. What I love now about how my Sprint Treo works is that I can do what I want/need to do ANYwhere. I don't have to wait to hook up at STarbucks, or hope that my T-Zone or whatever account is up to date. Things are simple for me now, and that's how I like it.
    For example, a couple of weeks ago I went to visit my parents in a small town (20K people) in Oklahoma - I used my Treo extensively online the whole time I was there. If I had had a T|C, I would have been dead in the water.
    I guess the optimal would be to have both WLAN and Wi-Fi, and to have radio inside be able to sense what's available and go with the fastest.
  6. #6  
    My wife has a Tungsten C and it is fast-real fast. The only problem is I'm always connected, anywhere, & she's not. I would definitely go for a Wi-Fi SD card for my Treo 600. Prioritiy for me in the next Treo would be Wi-Fi vs BT, if I'd have to choose.
    iPhone 4S
    Former Treo & Storm Owner
    Cigar Lover
  7. skidoo's Avatar
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    #7  
    Wi-Fi over Bluetooth, if I had to choose.

    I'm on Sprint, and the Vision speeds here in Richmond, VA are pretty fast. But it sure would be nice to walk around my house, or sit on the throne, or go out on the porch, and browse at 1 Mb/second plus.
  8. sledgie's Avatar
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    #8  
    I agree with everything said - although i'd like to point out two things.
    1.) Sprint could still charge users by requiring them to have the $15 month unlimited for any "smart" phone - and still have WIFI. that way, whether WIFI was built in or SD dependant, you still have users connected almost 99% of the time (roaming would of course be a time where you can't use sprintpcs data, and maybe you don't have access to wifi either)
    2.) I think most people who use WIFI realize that it is a battery DRAINER - I'm waiting and pondering why a company hasn't come out with a card where YOU can decide how much MAX data you wish to transmit thus draining the power that WIFI takes and allowing you the choice. Most people don't realize that ppl are quite happy at speeds of around 768k (which i believe is what is DSL in most areas, upgrading have gone to 1.5mbit) but we don't even NEED the 1 megabyte/sec. Very few sites have enough data to sufficiently use this. Streaming video doesn't even NEED this much; If you run a shoutcast server (as I do) and you wish to stream say, 128kbit music to your handheld, that's only about 17-20k a second, which is a very low amount. Streaming video uses anywhere between low end of 150k/sec to 750k/sec (although if you go to launch.com, you'll notice 150k and 300k are their only options, and 300k is very reasonable). Now I realize the "overhead" that WIFI is capable of...if it's capable of 10mbit...but because of distance/interference it's only getting 2mbit...well...that's a huge problem in loss. But I'm wondering why a company hasn't come up with a WIFI SD card that a user can "choose" it's battery drainage/data rates. Some processors on notebooks and I believe also on some Handhelds can choose a lower level processor for saving power... and the concept isn't that difficult to implement in a WIFI card - just make max data rate 1mbit/sec using limited voltage that is appropriate to the card (the more voltage, the higher the temperature the card gets, so limit the temperature and you limit the data rate). As for Palm - gosh I don't know what to say why they haven't gotten the drivers out for BT yet. It's interesting that Yahoo and Google Gmail now offer over 100 megs for email (which i'm sure they know people will be sending huge movies, files, mp3s etc. which are probably illegal and against TOS) but Palm won't offer BT - since when has a company NOT offered a choice in breaking the law/rules? Companies offering cd-rs for 10 cents a piece or dvd burners, but then saying ppl can't make copies of their own dvds, etc. The list goes on and on. I think in the next year, people who have or had Palm in their hearts for years will look elsewhere if the technology is there. There is no reason to buy and drive a 85 escort for $10,000 when a new Passat gets better mileage and is safer and has more options. I really wish whatever next version the Treo is will have better resolution and ability to use BT or SD cards. Otherwise, i will be changing as the technology gets better.
    sledgie
  9. PAC
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    #9  
    I owned a Tungsten|C for a short period of time when they came out. Beautiful screen, 400mhz processor, built-in keyboard and integrated WiFi. It is a nice device, but it wasn't *that* much faster than my Treo 600 at loading web pages. A large page on the T|T might take 20 seconds to load. The same page might take 30 seconds to load on the T600 (SprintPCS).

    Certainly, a WiFi network connected to a fast internet connection will download much faster than Vision or GPRS - in a 200 foot radius around my house. I like my T600 because it's decent (faster than dial-up) internet nearly everywhere I go, rather than the blazing fast internet at my house (where I would rather sit at my real PC and surf anyway). If you need fast internet at home and you live in a place with sufficient hotspots, then a separate WiFi enabled PDA & phone might be right for you. In my travels I'm seldom somewhere with a "free" hotspot, but nearly everywhere has SprintPCS. Also you won't find many WiFi connections while blowing down the highway at 75mph. Vision/GPRS & WiFi are just completely different technologies for completely different tasks. Maybe someday there will be WiFi networks like we have mobile phone service today. I'm all for it, but we've a long ways to go before the cost, power, and range of WiFi devices will allow it.

    I won't argue one bit about the 320x320 display, stunning is an understatement.

    Update: You know, we can't be 100% sure that http://www.sandisk.com/retail/c-wifi-sd.asp won't work if/when Palm drivers are ever released. I'll wager there's about a 99% chance that it won't work with the T600, but you never know!
    Last edited by PAC; 06/15/2004 at 12:53 PM.
  10. #10  
    I am also slightly disappointed that there is no WiFi on the Treo. Don't get me wrong, I love the Treo and everything about it. It does everything I NEED it to do and more. But, as most people I have seen, I could definitly suggest an improvement in the way of a screen upgrade and wifi. BT doesn't really interest me, I keep trying to see why people are excited about it. I am a mondo geek and have no problem with technology for technology but BT, I don't get it. Unfortunately I use cingular with about a 23kb/s transfer rate when I tested it the other day, which means I can use the internet on occaision but not as much as I want to. My apt, most of my friends apts, work, starbucks, the airport..all wifi capable and I am not. I am aware that is eats battery life. As long as I get about a days use off of a single charge, I can live with that. I am aware that other things can do wifi better. The reason I like the treo is because for the first time in a long time they attached a pda to a phone and it doesn't suck in form factor. It also plays mp3's which means I can skip the iRiver mp3 player when I travel. It also has a camera which means I can pack the good camera and use the phone for those "I need a camera NOW" sorts of pics. I think PalmOne is definitly on track with the 600. With a couple more improvements I think everyone could be happy. Except for the ones who want Bluetooth AND WiFi and will whine because there is only one SD slot. But theres no pleasing some people
  11. #11  
    id rather have wifi than bluetooth as well now actually.
    rumors beginning about viruses entering smartphones via bluetooth now, so maybe its not such a great idea. how the hell do you clean a virus from a smartphone anyway? sounds like a potential disaster.
  12. #12  
    WiFi = super high battery drain. I think that EvDO and UMTS will be just as good as WiFi ultimately plus deliver decent battery life. There are very few devices like Tungsten C that can deliver good WiFi thruput plus long battery life - it is a major engineering effort to make it happen. The Tungsten C has much better WiFi thruput than most WiFi add-on cards for PPC devices - see http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sectio...le82-page1.php
  13. #13  
    I would LOVE WiFi..........
    I already know what I'm missing from not having WiFi on the T600, because I have it all over the house (two PCs, very old Jornada, both Xbox's...). In those times I wish I could VNC (Remote Desktop, or MobileTS) to my main computer that has all of the processing power, I wish I had something small that could connect. My Jornada is just too damn slow, and I don't have a laptop. And who wants to lug a laptop in the bathroom anyway?
    Without WiFi, the T600 is just TOO SLOW over its modem. No comparison!!!!!!!!!
  14. #14  
    Oh and BTW, I don't care about battery life... just give me WIFI
  15.    #15  
    Yeah, I'm not too concerend about battery life with Wifi either. My Treo is usually on a charger at home and work since I'm mostly at my desk there.
  16. #16  
    i love wifi and bt on my ppc. i hate to say that but i wish my treo has wifi. treo600 is so good with pda + phone. i do not know how much benefit i would gain by having the bt. but i know i would get on the net much much faster (on gsm version of treo, since gprs is slow) than my tmo internet plan. of course, i would have to pay another subscribtion fee on the wifi network thou
  17. #17  
    [QUOTE=Poryphyron] WiFi = super high battery drain. I think that EvDO and UMTS will be just as good as WiFi ultimately plus deliver decent battery life. There are very few devices like Tungsten C that can deliver good WiFi thruput plus long battery life - ]

    I have personally invented a hardware / software solution to the WiFi battery drain dilemma -- and I'll be having a news conference later today to formally announce it.

    I'm going to call it: an ON and OFF switch.

    I've begun to apply for a patent -- but my patent attorney fears that Micro$oft has already patented all possible variations of ON & OFF switches.
  18. joele's Avatar
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    #18  
    mmm I would prefer a BT headset than WiFi, to me Wifi (if your using to browse web) on a 60x160 screen is a bit pointless. Yes I agree if the next Treo does have a 320x320 screen then wifi is essential but on the 600 I miss not having a BT headset more than I miss seeing 1/5 of a web page on the low-res screen.
  19. ignar's Avatar
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    #19  
    BT over WiFi for me. Of course I love to have an option to use Wifi. But, practically I doubt Treo 600 will last more than 2 hours with heavy Wifi use. I have used iPaq 4150, Dell X3i, and Sony TH55 and believe me, WiFi is a real battery hog. Internet on Treo 600 is slow, but most of time I visit PDA friendly sites only and for that, the speed is acceptable. Obviously the bigger issue is a screen resolution since you can't see more than 160x160 with even the fastest connection. Also the fast connection requires more CPU power. Higher resolution, faster CPT, Wifi, BT all call for either bigger battery or shorter running time, and if I have to give up one of them, it will be a Wifi.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by joele
    mmm I would prefer a BT headset than WiFi, to me Wifi (if your using to browse web) on a 60x160 screen is a bit pointless. Yes I agree if the next Treo does have a 320x320 screen then wifi is essential but on the 600 I miss not having a BT headset more than I miss seeing 1/5 of a web page on the low-res screen.
    Well if your argument is that you don't like to browse the web on the Treo's screen then I don't see the point to include any web stuff at all. My big thing with the Treo is that it definitely takes me 20-30 (on Sprint) to get to each page and that adds up when I want to look at something say 5 pages in. I tried to call up an evite (www.evite.com) the other day and it was at least two minutes in downloading anything that allowed me to see what the event was. Granted evite should make their pages smaller, but that's something that could be avoided if I had the wi-fi option.

    I would have gladly sacrifice battery. I like barye's idea of this on-off switch. I think he's on to something. Usually, I only need the data to quickly look up something. I'm not on there streaming over streamcast. For the 4 times a day, I'm on there looking something up over a span of 10 minutes, I think I would have plenty of battery. Especially, because I'm usually at home near a charger, at work near a charger, or in a car near a charger.

    Someone mentioned something about streaming video. Well there's really no way to do useful streaming video on the networks now, but with wi-fi it's feasible.

    Many people mentioned that they like that they are always connected. I'm not saying that wifi should replace the phone's data connection. It should be in addition to. And I'm not even saying that it should be built-in so everyone had to suffer the cost of it, but I think it should be the option to go out and buy something that will make it work.
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