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  1. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #21  
    ^^^Signature says it all^^^

    Hi-resolution screen.
    Better quality camera
    I am not fond of the 2.5mm jack, however I doubt that will get changed.
    I wish that you didnt have to run 2 applications at all time to get MP3 ringtones, ideally palm would have supported those to begin with.

    Thats about it.
  2. #22  
    Here is my list:

    - Lack of real SDIO support, Bluetooth and WIFI. (if we had the enough power on the interface and the drivers, I would still not like the bulky bump because of the card on the top of the treo, but I could live with that.)
    - The awful MIDI quality
    - The antenna could be internal
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Fine, I'll respond better this time and make y' all happy ok.

    My pet peeve is not enough memory. 64mb would be nice, although having a 512 sd card kinda negates this point. I'd also like to spend a little less on software. I refuse to add up all I have spent. I could probably buy another treo. Hi res would be nice, looks much cleaner, but not a real big deal. Other than that i dont have any real big peeves. I'm pretty happy with it.

    Happy now?



    If you got a real nice case and headset the price would be higher. You are paying for the phone. The case and headset are freebies, thus the low quality. Do you think HS/P1 is going to trim their profits just so you can have an Ivolution or even a Covertec. Not likely. I am not offended that you complain, I am amused. You bought a $600 dollar phone and you crying about $50-60 worth of accessories. It's been said a hundred times if its been said once. If you cant afford the accessories/software for you $600 phone, you cant afford the phone. And the crack about defending corps and their products. Will you please get real. Tell me youve never defended a product that you really like to someone who didnt. By association youre defending the company that made the product. And whats wrong with that? You got something against corporations?
    see, even you have things you hate about the treo. doesn't mean you are "b!tching" about it. i don't know where you got the notion that i am "crying" about the phone or "whining" or "b!tching" about anything. if you didn't want to respond to the thread, you didn't have to. it was just to see how many others felt the same way I did and what other flaws the phone has that I haven't yet discovered. and i am not about to enter into the "who can afford what" debate. that is besides the point.

    consumers have a RIGHT to criticise products they paid for. consumers, on the other hand, are not obligated to defend the products they paid for or like, at the expense of ridiculing or trying to remove the rights of others to complain about them. It doesn't matter if i bought a $5 wallet or a $100,000 car, if I find something I dislike about a product, I can complain about it. So can you. I am not that loyal to a corp to defend their products tooth and nail even if I use their products unless I made the product myself. Even for things I have designed, programmed and created, I accept criticism for. LOL. So lay off!
  4. #24  
    BOOKMARKS:
    Favogo has done it. Favogo is a bookmark application that syncs the Palm with IE and Netscape. They haven't gotten the bugs worked out yet though because it crashes my Treo600 sometimes depending on the size of the job. Anyone want to give it a whirl?

    Find it at http://favogo.bsoft.nl
    Previous User of T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition, Now Using T-Mobile Treo 600, Firmware v3.05, Software v600-1.12-ROW, Palm OS v5.2.1, Hardware B, Handspring Phone v1.0
  5. CCH
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    #25  
    Am I the only one who has more than one address for many of my contacts? Apparently no one at PalmSource does. BeyondContacts fixes this, but its integration into the Treo600 is not perfect.

    I would love some bluetooth, but then how would PalmOne take my money from me in 6 months? Screen sucks, but that is the tradeoff for lower cost and better battery life. All the other bits I just factored into the cost of the device when I bought it (better headset, retracting sync/charge cable, screen protector, case, etc).

    I am a recent convert from Windows Mobile, which was an awesome handheld OS, but my Siemens SX56 (XDA) was a horrible phone, which ultimately matters more to me (and clearly many others).
  6. #26  
    1. Shorter antenna or internal antenna.
    2. Lighter - Treo is to heavy !
    3. Thinner - Too thick!
    4. Stronger IR so I can use it as a remote
    5. SDIO cards that work !
  7. #27  
    I don't own a Treo 600 but as a veteran Treo 300 owner I was first in line with my list of complaints when the Treo 600 first came out. There was a lot that tempted me but I hated the fact that the thumbboard was now smaller than my Treo 300's, which I felt was already too small. I decided not to go for the initial Treo-owner discount and am regretting it. I still hate all of the things about it that I initially hated, but I've waited patiently for someone to get those things right and no one has. So here I am lately, checking in at Treocentral once again and thinking seriously about buying a Treo 600 flaws and overpricedness and all.

    Getting back on topic...aside from the too-small thumbboard, things I don't like in no particular order:
    - Poor quality camera (though I disagree with those that want more megapixels - I don't - I just want the picture quality to be much better - do a search in these forums for "camera" and my username if you don't understand what I'm talking about and want to learn more).
    - Candybar format. I guess I was in the minority in actually liking the flip-design of the Treo 300. Yeah, it was an added step, but it gave the screen added protection.
    - Low-res and overall poor-looking screen.

    I'm sure that there were at least one or two other things I complained about in the past, but for some reason that's all I can think of right now.

    Oh, and I agree with those that say that the included accessories are a non-issue. I do think that they should have either included an adaptor to hook in stereo headphones or used some new type of connector that allowed for stereo headphones or a non-standard telephone headset, but I don't see bundling a cheap headset as an issue since, IMO, they don't really need to include one at all (my Sprint Sony-Ericsson T608 didn't come with a headset or car charger).

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #28  
    Oh yeah, I remember another one...

    - Overpriced (this is a Zire 31 with a $10 camera and a $20 battery upgrade, so after carrier discounts it should cost $180).

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri

    consumers have a RIGHT to criticise products they paid for. consumers, on the other hand, are not obligated to defend the products they paid for or like, at the expense of ridiculing or trying to remove the rights of others to complain about them. It doesn't matter if i bought a $5 wallet or a $100,000 car, if I find something I dislike about a product, I can complain about it. So can you. I am not that loyal to a corp to defend their products tooth and nail even if I use their products unless I made the product myself. Even for things I have designed, programmed and created, I accept criticism for. LOL. So lay off!
    Yes you are correct here. The flaw is the logic of your complaint at least IMHO. All I am saying is that I think it's foolish (on your part or anyone elses) to expect that anything included with an object you purchase for $X should be of the same quality as the object itself. Included accessories have always been of lesser quality than the item they accessorize. Examples: Expensive watch/cheap band. Expensive car/basic radio. Just to name two. I have purchased both of these items so I know this scenario firsthand.

    I am not discounting your RIGHT to complain, not at all. I am simply trying to point out that it's something you have to accept and live with it. The other complaints you, me and others have made are truly valid because we'd like to think that the company who made the product did enough research and development to put in the features that most folks would want as well as those that make the most sense. I seriously doubt there is a person in the world who owns a treo today, that bought it because he/she found out it came with a case and headset. Thats why I say those items are not complaint worthy. Hell when I opened the box and saw them I was pleasantly suprised at their inclusion even if they did turn out to be crap.

    Perhaps my communication of this concept was unclear in previous posts. I sometimes think that if it's obvious to me, it should be to everyone else as well. Guess I was mistaken.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R

    Oh, and I agree with those that say that the included accessories are a non-issue. I do think that they should have either included an adaptor to hook in stereo headphones or used some new type of connector that allowed for stereo headphones or a non-standard telephone headset, but I don't see bundling a cheap headset as an issue since, IMO, they don't really need to include one at all (my Sprint Sony-Ericsson T608 didn't come with a headset or car charger).

    Scott
    Thanks for seeing what I thought was utterly plain and obvious. I thought maybe I was losing it.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Yes you are correct here. The flaw is the logic of your complaint at least IMHO. All I am saying is that I think it's foolish (on your part or anyone elses) to expect that anything included with an object you purchase for $X should be of the same quality as the object itself. Included accessories have always been of lesser quality than the item they accessorize. Examples: Expensive watch/cheap band. Expensive car/basic radio. Just to name two. I have purchased both of these items so I know this scenario firsthand.
    expensive watch/cheap band? Expensive car/basic radio??? What are you talking about? I have bought a high end watch and my dad owns a much higher end watch than mine and the band is not cheap at all! It's a HIGH end band for a HIGH end watch. As for cars, you haven't been keeping up with the automotive industry? The Lexus SC 2004 comes with a Mark Levinson audio system. Mark Levinson is a premium high end home stereo system designer. I think I made my point.

    I am not saying the treo 600 is equivalent to a rolex or omega watch or even a lexus. and yes, I agree that the boxed price of the unit would be higher if there was a high end headset in there. so maybe in that sense, you're right - it would keep the price low for the people who don't use headsets anyway. HENCE, the thing that I hate about treo being - i wish they had absorbed the costs and given us a high end headset OR an adapter.
  12. #32  
    It would make no economic sense to sell a high end watch with a cheap band. If a Rolex retails $3500 (for the cheap ones), they can put a fancy band on the watch that has a cost of goods sold (cogs) of $100 and get 60% margins (fabulous for any manufacturing company) and have the band cost less than 10% of the total product retail price. If Rolex were to offer a gold watch with a cheap plastic band they would be laughed out of the market. Also, all wrist watches come with a band.

    As for the automotive comparison, it also makes financial sense to have a good radio in an expensive car. If a Lexus retails $35,000 and they put in a $500 cogs radio, they could get 50% margin and still have the radio cost less than 3% of the total retail price of the car. Although not all cars come with a radio, most do. Also, car radios are difficult to add, remove or change. By the way, Lexus did not always provide decent radios. I have a friend who has one of the first ones, and she hates the radio.

    The Treo is a PDA and a phone. Not all phones come with headsets. There are hundreds of types of headsets available, and all are simple to plug in and use. If we added a cradle at $25, the "Premium" headset at $10, and a stereo adapter at $5 the total addition would equal about 10% of the cost of the Treo. PalmOne could decide to add 10% to the price to cover their costs + margins, or they could reduce their overall margin. Since not all users will want or use any of these items, it makes economic sense to leave them out of the package price, have a lower selling price for the phone and allow users to purchase them separately.

    One can use the same margin calculations to see why the Treo doesn't have a high resolution screen, more memory, or faster processor. Adding any of these would push the price of the Treo higher, or reduce the margin PalmOne makes, or both. The better strategy to come out with different models at different price / performance points to allow end users to pay for the performance they desire.
  13.    #33  
    DHAnderson - thanks for the fine posting. and you're right about the lexus. currently, bose make speakers for a high end car manufacturer but the brand escapes me. I believe it is either lexus or a certain mercedes model. correct me if i am wrong.
  14. #34  
    So I am guessing you are both kids.

    Before Lexus was even a brand and Toyota made unimaginative crap, there were many expensive cars that came with crappy basic radios. Sure it doesnt happen much anymore because car makers are now realizing that the stereo is actaully part of the car. I bought a Corvette once that had a plain jane am/fm radio. We also had a Jaguar convertible 12cylinder (dont remember the model) that only had AM. I also purchased a very nice and expensive Citizen watch that was the top of the line model at the time. It did however come with a less than expected, poor quality leather band. After a couple of months it showed too much wear and tear and I replaced it.

    Thank you for your expert opinions on watches and cars. Obviously you two know more than I do because you say you do. I have puchased both the items I used as examples, but clearly I dont have a clue what I am talking about. I appreciate you putting me in my place and I of course defer to your superior knowledge and intellect. You might ask your dad, you know the one with the watch, if he remembers nice cars with crappy radios. Wasnt that long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson
    Also, car radios are difficult to add, remove or change.
    Where the hell did you get this idea? There are hundreds if not thousands of aftermarket stereo stores that do car install that would very likely say that is close to the dumbest thing they ever heard. When I was in college I used to do custom installs of highend stereos in cars. There nothing difficult about it. Expensive, detail oriented and time consuming, yes. Difficult, no. I'm sure there are also a fair number of car stereo theives that would say you're full of it too.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #35  
    i actually found the included handsfree headset to be adequate. guess i have low standars in this department.

    ok, not wanting to miss out on a chance to weigh in in the hope that someone out there with industrial design clout over future Treo generations will read this thread and take notes, here is my list of improvement requests for the next Treo, in rank order:

    1. Improved Camera. We all know that certain features will be added (high res screen, EDGE) whereas dramatically improving the camera probably falls into the "discretionary" pile of possible upgrades. Therefore, I think we should all be pounding the pavement first and foremost for a major camera upgrade! The current camera leaves so, so very much to be desired, while the room for improvement with existing technolgoy is mind boggling! Anything less than 1.3 megapixels in the nextgen Treo will be a major letdown for me. My vote is to be bold and make the Treo the best camera phone out there: 2.0 megapixels, a quality flash, digital zoom, 180 degree swivel - the works!!

    2. SD card slot lock. Not only does my SD card regularly eject undetected (SD eject warming alarms when not heard do no good), but I even had the SD slot protector eject on me, never to be found again. And PalmOne wants $7 for a replacement! I'm so petrified that my SD card will get lost that I leave it at home more often than I take it with me. Some type of surefire SD locking system is mandatory on nextgen.

    3. WiFi. To me this is far more important that Bluetooth. WiFi's near ubiquity combined with ultra painfully slow carrier data speeds currently available make it an essential addition. Couldn't you also knock out one of the two major bluetooth uses - wireless hotsyncing - with wifi?

    4. Stereo jack. The adapter is annoying. Let's find a solution so that we can get rid of it.

    5. Improved keyboard. Handspring claimed that smart software prevented typing errors, but I think they can improve it. The feel of the keys could also be improved to provide more tactile response.

    6. Thinner & Lighter. I know Donna, etc. others think they got the form factor nailed for the near-term future. No doubt, the T600 is a winner on the form front. But PalmOne cannot rest on its laurels here - the nextgen Treo could definitely benefit from a few less carbs.

    That's my $0.02
    Last edited by ghileman; 06/10/2004 at 04:31 AM.
    Off to iPhone land...
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    So I am guessing you are both kids.

    Before Lexus was even a brand and Toyota made unimaginative crap, there were many expensive cars that came with crappy basic radios. Sure it doesnt happen much anymore because car makers are now realizing that the stereo is actaully part of the car. I bought a Corvette once that had a plain jane am/fm radio. We also had a Jaguar convertible 12cylinder (dont remember the model) that only had AM. I also purchased a very nice and expensive Citizen watch that was the top of the line model at the time. It did however come with a less than expected, poor quality leather band. After a couple of months it showed too much wear and tear and I replaced it.

    Thank you for your expert opinions on watches and cars. Obviously you two know more than I do because you say you do. I have puchased both the items I used as examples, but clearly I dont have a clue what I am talking about. I appreciate you putting me in my place and I of course defer to your superior knowledge and intellect. You might ask your dad, you know the one with the watch, if he remembers nice cars with crappy radios. Wasnt that long ago.
    Let's limit conversations about topics within this century. We could also say that Roman chariots came with no radio.

    You're not the only one to purchase high end items btw. I never said I know more than you do. I just pointed out that your examples about cars and watches was poor.

    again, if you didn't like the topic, you didn't have to respond. So, what else do people hate about the treo? Woof, since this topic ruffles your feathers so much, you have my permission to move on to another thread!
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ghileman
    1. Improved Camera. We all know that certain features will be added (high res screen, EDGE) whereas dramatically improving the camera probably falls into the "discretionary" pile of possible upgrades. Therefore, I think we should all be pounding the pavement first and foremost for a major camera upgrade! The current camera leaves so, so very much to be desired, while the room for improvement with existing technolgoy is mind boggling! Anything less than 1.3 megapixels in the nextgen Treo will be a major letdown for me. My vote is to be bold and make the Treo the best camera phone out there: 2.0 megapixels, a quality flash, digital zoom, 180 degree swivel - the works!!
    I think the camera should be removed and the unit sold at a lower price. They did release a newer camera-less treo but the back of the case looks like a totally half-assed job.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghileman
    2. SD card slot lock. Not only does my SD card regularly eject undetected (SD eject warming alarms when not heard do no good), but I even had the SD slot protector eject on me, never to be found again. And PalmOne wants $7 for a replacement! I'm so petrified that my SD card will get lost that I leave it at home more often than I take it with me. Some type of surefire SD locking system is mandatory on nextgen.
    This seems to have happened to a lot of people. But it never happened to me. Is it because of the case I am using? I am not sure but has this happened ot anyone with an innopocket metal case? People who use the Covertec case may have this problem because the fold on top might press into the SD card, thereby dislodging it.

    3. WiFi. To me this is far more important that Bluetooth. WiFi's near ubiquity combined with ultra painfully slow carrier data speeds currently available make it an essential addition. Couldn't you also knock out one of the two major bluetooth uses - wireless hotsyncing - with wifi?
    The price might jump somewhat with this addition and, just like the headset issue, not everybody uses wi-fi on their PDAs. if they want wifi, use the expansion cards

    4. Stereo jack. The adapter is annoying. Let's find a solution so that we can get rid of it.
    agreed.

    5. Improved keyboard. Handspring claimed that smart software prevented typing errors, but I think they can improve it. The feel of the keys could also be improved to provide more tactile response.
    don't really feel the keyboard is a problem.

    Again, if Woof is reading this, watch out - he doesn't take attacks on his phone lightly. He takes it very perosnally in fact
  18. ink883's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri
    1. doesn't come stock with useful features like an mp3 player. strong reliance on 3rd party software to improve functionality of t600

    2. headphone/headset jack non standard. why? to make more money off the adapter?

    3. crappy headset that comes with the unit. obvious reason - so that customers spend more money on a real headset.

    4. contact list is rubbish. sorta palm's fault.

    what are your pet peeves on the t600?

    1. My treo came stock with what it needed. If palm/handspring developed all the extra software like (mp3, docs2go, etc) then price and development time would go up. For me palms strongest suit was a large amount of 3rd party support. If it wasn't for that I would go with PPC.

    2. Would you have liked the treo to need an adapter to use standard headsets instead? Or would you like them to make the treo larger so it could have 2 standard jacks... one for the headset and another for stereo headphones.

    3. What phone do you know of that comes with a quality headset? I would rather they put a cheap one in and keep costs down. Once you buy a good standard headset you won't want whatever palm would package... and I would guess you would also hate having to pay extra for it.

    4. I am not sure what you mean? I get everything i need on my contact list. Have you tried setting up customs lines (you can use for things like birthdays, anniversaries, etc)

    5. My only real pet peeve is the build quality. There is never a good excuse for having so many issues.
  19.    #39  
    i noticed that some of iRiver's audio products come with Sennheiser headphones. This is a stark improvement from many audio equipment manufacturers habit of providing the worst possible headphones on the planet. best example - samsung yepp 55 mp3 player - one of the best flash mp3 players around and comes with the worst pair of headsets i have ever used.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by rossoneri
    Let's limit conversations about topics within this century. We could also say that Roman chariots came with no radio.
    Ya thats a good example. What kind of a dumbass expected the romans to have radio? I have my ideas....

    This century is a whopping four years old. Hardly a reasonable time period for any kind of rational discussion. But if you must be so closeminded and only include products sold in the four years there are numerous examples I'm sure. The new $300,000 house(in our market thats a sizeable house) I bought two years ago (this century) didnt come with even a crappy headset. Nope nothing. Didnt have a hot tub or a fence around the yard or a sprinkler system or even grass in the back yard. Damn it anyway why didnt it come with all that stuff? It's a really nice house and $300K is certainly not a discount price. Hmmm maybe because not everything is included just because you want it to be.

    You're not the only one to purchase high end items btw.
    Really, I thought I was the only one. Wow I am truly blessed to be sharing this thread with someone who has such a wealth of information at his fingertips. Are you sure I am not the only one?
    I never said I know more than you do. I just pointed out that your examples about cars and watches was poor.
    Implied. My examples are valid because they are real. You just dont wish to recognize them because you are unwilling to concede that someone else might have a valid point of view that conflicts with your own. I dont believe I have ever said in this 'conversation' that you were wrong, just that it isnt any surprise to me and others that the accessories are crap, because that is not the focus of the product. They are freebies and freebies by their very nature are not usually of very high qulity. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE FREE!!! This is clearly a concept that escapes you.

    again, if you didn't like the topic, you didn't have to respond. So, what else do people hate about the treo? Woof, since this topic ruffles your feathers so much, you have my permission to move on to another thread!
    It's not a question of liking the topic. I am just trying to convey my point. Here maybe it will be simpler for you to understand like this. Imagine that I am typing really slow so you dont miss anything.

    "yes rossoneri, you are correct the case and headset were a disappointment. It sure would have been nice to get something at least useful in the box with the treo. What were they thinking putting that crap in there. Well I guess maybe they thought they were doing is a favor by throwing in free stuff. Oh well no matter to me. I have a headset and dont use a case anyway, thats what pockets are for. Had the stuff been worth having the price would probably have been higher anyway."

    If one were to be picky, your item number three isnt really a shortcoming of the treo. The treo would be the same phone even if they didnt include crappy accessories.

    Now that I look back, number two on your list is pretty silly too. How is HS/P1 gonna make more money off the jack adapter? You can buy them for three bucks at Radio Shack. HS/P1 doesnt have the market cornered there so thats not a money maker. What company selling items for $150-$800 thinks their profits are gonna come from a $3 adapter? I can hear the talk in the board room now.

    Donna-"yunno Jeff we're going to do really well with this model"
    Jeff - " yes we are. Hey I just had a great idea!!"
    Donna - " Please share"
    Jeff - "If we make the earphone jack only work with the phone headsets, the consumers will need to buy an adapter to use their headphones for the stereo playback, right?"
    Donna - " yes thats right. So?"
    Jeff- " What if we sold the adapters? We could make a fortune!"
    Donna - "Oh my gosh Jeff, you're right. We'll make a killing."
    Jeff-" This is so great!! Hey yunno we should make the case and headset we include in the box really crappy too. Just to **** people off."
    Donna- " Oh yes, absolutely."

    Looking back #1 is crap too. All Palm Os device rely heavily on 3rd party apps. Thats why they use palm OS. No company provides all features for all consumers anyway. It's impossible.

    And #4. Contacts certainly is no frills but it works just fine.

    Dude why did you buy a treo?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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