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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_L_P
    From my own experience, I know that you're absolutely right: Many (though not all, if I may say) ISP's block IP ranges to assure they're only accepting outgoing mail from devices which are on their network. (Despite the fact that many of their tech support people are completely unaware of it.) And also, as you’ve said, I've had ISP's that use the same server for incoming and outgoing mail.

    What makes this so funny, is that I just had the same kind of discussion with this guy, on a totally different subject.

    In each of our conversations:

    He was very wrong.
    He was extremely insulting, AND
    He never listened.

    Frustrating isn't it.

    Pete
    Quote Originally Posted by skidoo
    dlbrummels clearly has very limited knowledge of SMTP and how SMTP servers can work. That's an observation based on his posts, not an ad hominem attack.

    The fact is, when you connect to the Internet via your Treo 600, you connect through (e.g.) Sprint. Sprint is your "point of entry" ISP. You get an IP address from Sprint.

    Many SMTP servers (outgoing e-mail servers) require that you connect to THEM with an IP address from THEIR network. As mentioned before, the motivation is often to help prevent scumbags from using the ISP's SMTP server as a spam gateway.

    Many SMTP servers also require authentication via username and password. Usually for the same reason mentioned above.

    And finally, many ISPs require both conditions be met before you can send outgoing e-mail on their SMTP servers.

    Obviously different ISPs have different requirements, but dbrummel's "absolutes" are misleading and in several cases just incorrect. No offense intended. Just clarification.
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    letgoflyers81 is completely correct here. I have a Sprint Treo600 and use Bellsouth as my home ISP. I cannot access bellsouth's smtp servers on my Treo whatever the settings are. You can only access bellsouth's smtp servers if you're actually logged onto bellsouth as your isp, plain and simple. It may vary according to other ISPs but that's they way bellsouth does it. Consequently, I use either Sprint's or yahoo's smtp server to send outgoing mail...
    Thank you.
  2. #42  
    Maybe the three of you; next time will be able to help someone without regression to such childish behavior
  3. #43  
    I just read through this entire thread and have come to one of two conclusions.

    1. dlbrummels knows he's completely wrong and is just playing with letsgoflyers81, trying to rile him up.

    2. dlbrummels really doesn't have a clue and thinks he's correct when everyone else knows he's so wrong.

    For the record, my ISP is Optoline.

    1. Optonline's mail servers are EXACTLY THE SAME for both incoming and outgoing.

    2. I can not use the Optonline outgoing server on my Treo to send mail, no mater what the configuration.

    3. I use a outgoing Fastmail server to send my mail.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Maybe the three of you; next time will be able to help someone without regression to such childish behavior
    That's really funny. How was I childish? I was trying from my first post to clarify the situation so ken could get his e-mail working. I never attacked you in any way, just simply pointed out that you were wrong and what the correct course of action is. You on the other hand...

    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Doubtful, you should trying being helpful instead of wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Means nothing, some of the dumbiest I have heard work support.
    And being childing is also refusing to accept that you don't know everything about everything. For instance:

    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    and by the way, I had an Engineering Degree in Electronics Technology before there was an Internet, I don't need research, I have repaired and setup systems you'll only dream about touching.
    I agree that you're worked on systems I know nothing about, and I can admit that. However you say yourself that you got your degree before the internet existed. So that means you know everything about it and don't need to learn anything new? That makes no sense. Your degree taught you about systems of that date. If the internet didn't exist then, then you learned nothing about SMTP authentication and IP authentication.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Incorrect, I post to try and help people, not give my opinion, or try and rack up posts with wasted comments.

    I never said absolutely anything as to what is cemented in stone. You make assumptions based on your limited knowledge and inability to comprehend. I try and post as the reader can understand and not confuse more.

    My knowledge of SMTP servers is not limited. I have had, AT&T WorldNet, Prodigy, MSN, CompuServe, and SBC Ameritech. I have had dozens of email accounts on many computers and have never had a problem setting one up.
    If you were trying to help, you would have simply stated the facts as you see them and merely defend them when I said you were wrong. Instead you went on a campaign to prove that you were right and wouldn't entertain the idea that you could be wrong.

    You did cement your comments in stone and you started right away:

    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Incomimg and outgoing servers are never the same.
    That's a pretty absolute statement. There are many ISP's who use the same server name for POP and SMTP. However the vast majority of ISP's will not allow you to use their SMTP server if you're not connected to the internet through them at that time. Otherwise you get spamming, open relays, server hacking, etc. Not all ISP's are like this, bust most are.

    The bottom line is that you have five people telling you you're wrong but you won't even consider that it's possible. I'm sure that in many ways your knowledge vastly outweighs mine, there's no doubt. But in this case, you are wrong and your arrogance about it is astounding.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81
    That is 100% incorrect. I'm not going to argue about this anymore. Most SMTP require IP authentication. If you're not online with Bellsouth, you can't user their server. I don't care whether you believe me or not. That's the way it is.
    You are correct.

    When checking email from a Treo connected with a Wireless connection, you use the POP mail server of your ISP.

    To send email, you need the SMTP server of your wireless carrier. As an example, BellSouth will not allow you to access it's SMTP server unless you are logged onto their network.

    You can find most servers at the following address:

    http://www.snappermail.com/support/isp.cfm

    The ATT Wireless SMTP server is:

    smtp.attwireless.net

    Good Luck
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81
    That's really funny. How was I childish? I was trying from my first post to clarify the situation so ken could get his e-mail working. I never attacked you in any way, just simply pointed out that you were wrong and what the correct course of action is. You on the other hand...





    And being childing is also refusing to accept that you don't know everything about everything. For instance:



    I agree that you're worked on systems I know nothing about, and I can admit that. However you say yourself that you got your degree before the internet existed. So that means you know everything about it and don't need to learn anything new? That makes no sense. Your degree taught you about systems of that date. If the internet didn't exist then, then you learned nothing about SMTP authentication and IP authentication.



    If you were trying to help, you would have simply stated the facts as you see them and merely defend them when I said you were wrong. Instead you went on a campaign to prove that you were right and wouldn't entertain the idea that you could be wrong.

    You did cement your comments in stone and you started right away:



    That's a pretty absolute statement. There are many ISP's who use the same server name for POP and SMTP. However the vast majority of ISP's will not allow you to use their SMTP server if you're not connected to the internet through them at that time. Otherwise you get spamming, open relays, server hacking, etc. Not all ISP's are like this, bust most are.

    The bottom line is that you have five people telling you you're wrong but you won't even consider that it's possible. I'm sure that in many ways your knowledge vastly outweighs mine, there's no doubt. But in this case, you are wrong and your arrogance about it is astounding.
    I was trying to help, sorry I never had a lame ISP to share my bad experiences.

    And I am still not wrong, you made what I said absolute, you read what you want. There are a few who have ISP's that limit you.

    The vast majority of us can communicate to whatever service we want.

    They just don't want to lower themselves to the childish posts in which you have brought TC to.

    For someone in his twenties you act about three..................grow up.........
    Last edited by dlbrummels; 05/31/2004 at 09:40 AM.
  7. #47  
    Right, I'm acting like I'm three because I'm intelligently and clearly making my point while debunking yours. You made your points while I showed that they were incorrect. I also pointed out how inconsistent your arguments are. That's not acting childish, that's intelligently making an argument.

    And I'm going to grow up right now and stop arguing with someone who refuses to listen to reason and admit that maybe there's a chance he's wrong.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by letsgoflyers81
    Right, I'm acting like I'm three because I'm intelligently and clearly making my point while debunking yours. You made your points while I showed that they were incorrect. I also pointed out how inconsistent your arguments are. That's not acting childish, that's intelligently making an argument.

    And I'm going to grow up right now and stop arguing with someone who refuses to listen to reason and admit that maybe there's a chance he's wrong.

    Incorrect, intelligent, not in the least.

    You have not debunked anything, other than showing there are some lame ISP's out there that will not let you use anything other than their mail servers.


    I try and help users while you seem to be here for your id, and delusions of grandeur.

    Hopefully, some day you will try and help others, without showiing them how small you really can be.
  9. #49  
    Wow. This has got to be the oddest direction for this thread to go. Ken has already quit responding in this thread because he finally got the right answer from Letsgoflyers and Gfunk. Yet dlbrummers and Letsgoflyers have this fight going on in here that has nothing to do with the topic anymore.
    dlbrummers, you info was not correct, and poor Ken could have probably done a good search on the boards and he would have found his answer without starting this fight. Letsgoflyers was right, and the info that he gave was repeated several times by others and that appears to be the manner in which Ken was able to get his E-Mail working.
  10. #50  
    SMTP Server: smtp.attwireless.net
    as someone already mentioned.


    here's the source and explanation as mentioned earlier:
    http://www.snappermail.com/support/isp.cfm
    “You have a special gift for resolving conflict.”
  11. #51  
    Just to followup on this thread, here is the reason WHY ISP's like Bellsouth block remote smtp server access (i.e, post 25 blocking):

    Zombie computers arise when spammers seize on bugs in Microsoft Windows--or from naive users who click on attachments--to take over PCs and transform them into spambots. Comcast users send out about 800 million messages a day, but a mere 100 million flow through the company's official servers.

    <snip>

    Comcast could block zombies by preventing outgoing mail from leaving its network before it flows through its servers. That technique is called blocking port 25, the port used by the venerable Simple Mail Transport Protocol. It's just the sheer number of subscribers that makes the company such an awesome source of spam.
    It has the benefit of making e-mail departing Comcast's network easier to monitor so that network technicians can spot zombie PCs more quickly.

    <snip>

    Some Internet providers, including EarthLink, Cox Communications and a number of universities, block port 25. But because it inconveniences people who rely on remote e-mail providers or the Linux aficionados who run their own mail servers, it's still a controversial response. (Eventually, all e-mail clients will support the workaround of outgoing connections through port 587.)...
    http://news.com.com/2010-1034-521817...tag=nefd.acpro

    Of course, there are other methods ISPs could use to prevent spamming as the article indicates, but often you do not have a choice for your broadband internet provider. Anyway, the problem of 'Zombie Computers" is annoying and port blocking 25 (smtp) is one way ISP's like Bellsouth can prevent spammers...
    _________________
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  12. #52  
    The bottom line is that you have five people telling you you're wrong but you won't even consider that it's possible. I'm sure that in many ways your knowledge vastly outweighs mine, there's no doubt. But in this case, you are wrong and your arrogance about it is astounding.
    Flyer, you are of course absolutely correct. I think the main problem here is your colleague believes his own experience to representative of everyone, while those of us in the ISP/Hosting/Networking industry clearly know it is not.

    Brandon

    PS - Actually, just for the record, SMTP Auth is not always the issue. For example, as described above, in some instances an ISP or network provider will block outbound connection attempts to port 25 (SMTP), thereby prohibiting the use of any SMTP server except their own. However, SMTP Auth isn't necessarily required as they will relay mail through their own SMTP servers so long as the originating machine is within their own IP space. Sprint PCS is this way in my area; they block outbound SMTP connections to external servers but do NOT require SMTP Auth to send mail from a wireless device on their network.

    To be clear, as others have pointed out the problem for the original poster is NOT that BellSouth is doing anything to interfere with his ability to send mail; AT&T is likely blocking outbound SMTP connections from their network, thereby forcing him to use their mail servers to send (but not receive) mail.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cbtrussell
    Sprint PCS is this way in my area; they block outbound SMTP connections to external servers but do NOT require SMTP Auth to send mail from a wireless device on their network.

    To be clear, as others have pointed out the problem for the original poster is NOT that BellSouth is doing anything to interfere with his ability to send mail; AT&T is likely blocking outbound SMTP connections from their network, thereby forcing him to use their mail servers to send (but not receive) mail.

    Ahh...thanks for clearing that up. So, in my case it is Sprint that is blocking port 25 thereby bpreventing outbound smtp access to bellsouth servers. I would have know that it is Sprint that was the problem afterall!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
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    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Ahh...thanks for clearing that up. So, in my case it is Sprint that is blocking port 25 thereby bpreventing outbound smtp access to bellsouth servers. I would have know that it is Sprint that was the problem afterall!
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

    I had a problem sending outgoing mail from my sprint Treo. The problem for me was that earthlink's primary outgoing mail server was blocking IP address ranges. Earthlink Tech support originally denied that and then confirmed it.

    They then gave me an alternate earthlink outgoing mail server which does not block ip address ranges, and I no longer have a problem sending outgoing mail through Sprint on my Treo.

    I agree however that in either case, and for most sprint treo users, the quick and effective solution is to use sprints outgoing mail server.

    Pete
  15. drmrw2's Avatar
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    #55  
    Forgive me if this was posted already (too lazy) I have bellsouth.net and the T-mobile treo 600 and I just used myemail@t-mobile.com for the outgoing mail and no user name and "use current Pop3 password" is checked. I have no problem receiving or sending....
    drmrw on a treo 600 gprs t-mobile

    "One out of 3 people has two people standing next to them..."
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_L_P
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

    I had a problem sending outgoing mail from my sprint Treo. The problem for me was that earthlink's primary outgoing mail server was blocking IP address ranges. Earthlink Tech support originally denied that and then confirmed it.

    They then gave me an alternate earthlink outgoing mail server which does not block ip address ranges, and I no longer have a problem sending outgoing mail through Sprint on my Treo.

    I agree however that in either case, and for most sprint treo users, the quick and effective solution is to use sprints outgoing mail server.

    Pete
    You're right, it's not Sprint in this case. The account I have on my Treo is with an e-mail hosting company I use that does not require IP authentication for SMTP access. You just need to POP before send and use password authentication. I'm able to send through their server. They seem to be the exception to the rule as far as SMTP access goes. But yeah, Sprint's not blocking access to other SMTP servers.
  17. #57  
    Understand all your posts re SMTP, but none solves my problem:
    My POP3 and SMTP servers are in Australia. SMTP server requires authentication by password.
    I travel around the world all the time.
    I do/can not use GPRS service providers' SMTP because 1. I will need to know and type in the domain everytime I hop to another country/network, and 2. My current GPRS provider (China Mobile) does not have a SMTP server (may be I should be hammering them for one).
    Therefore, I opt to use authenticated SMTP by password method.
    All that work with my notebook's Outlook client (connected with whatever wired ISPs available), but not with my Treo.
    The inbuilt mail program returns "check with ISP...",
    The Eudora client returns a more specific "protocol error..received unexpected response from smtp..."
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    #58  
    Change your outgoing mail server to: smtp.attwireless.net

    no username, no password. I have bellsouth and this works for me.

    -Craig
    Sent from my Treo
    -Craig J.

    Visor Platinum -= Clie T615CS -= treo 600 -=treo 650 -= Tilt
    "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. "
    -Douglas Adams
  19. #59  
    Same error message from Eudora client: "Received unecxpected response from outgoing mail server, smtp.att.wireless.net (protocol error) Connection Closed. Authentication required."
    I guess it wont work because I have to be on AT&T's service to be able to use its SMTP.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by roamingphil
    Understand all your posts re SMTP, but none solves my problem:
    My POP3 and SMTP servers are in Australia. SMTP server requires authentication by password.
    I travel around the world all the time.
    I do/can not use GPRS service providers' SMTP because 1. I will need to know and type in the domain everytime I hop to another country/network, and 2. My current GPRS provider (China Mobile) does not have a SMTP server (may be I should be hammering them for one).
    Therefore, I opt to use authenticated SMTP by password method.
    All that work with my notebook's Outlook client (connected with whatever wired ISPs available), but not with my Treo.
    The inbuilt mail program returns "check with ISP...",
    The Eudora client returns a more specific "protocol error..received unexpected response from smtp..."
    You've answered your own question here: you should be speaking to China Mobile to find out the address of their SMTP server.

    Some servers allow you to send if you authenticate with a 'receive' first, so maybe that's worth a try? Try picking up mail from your POP3 server. This will add a record for your IP address to the SMTP mail server saying 'IP authenticated OK', which should allow you to send through your usual home SMTP server. Not all servers are set up this way, so there's no guarantee it will work.
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