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  1. #41  
    Most important, will this software be embraced by IT of large companies currently invested in BES Servers, so as they will "support" the software. If not support, hopefully users will be able to install and configure with little opposition from IT.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    What keeps someone from installing the software on their device even if it isn't included from the manufacturer? PalmOne doesn't offer snappermail either, but that doesn't mean I can't use it myself.
    Exactly! Another point to consider is that it may not be up to PalmOne to decide whether or not to offer the BB-Conect client in the first place, but rather the wireless providers that offer the Treo600. Afterall the Treo would be a smartphone first with BB funtionality option, which the wireless companies may or may not want to market. What would stop RIM or PalmSource from direclty from directly negotiating with Sprint for example to bundle the BB-connect client on the Treo similar to the arrangement Cingular etc have with RIM?
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jip88
    I understand the separation of the hardware and the software. This issue is one of service, i. e., the BES is replicating mail to a Cingular server for retransmission to the client hardware (of whatever description). Do I then need to have Cingular wireless service for my device to receive the forwarded mail, or as long as I am on the air with any carrier, can I point my client to a Cingular address, much as I can point an ordinary e-mail client to any POP3 address, to establish the link, or are there other options I'm not thinking of?
    No, there's no interaction with Cingular hosting anything. It's a function of data connectivity. That's all. The carriers don't host a thing. They are nothing more than a transmission medium. But hopefully others can speak with more authority on the subject in greater detail.

    But there is a slight problem. Call setup and processing is admittedly different between carriers of similar technologies. In the case of CDMA vs GSM, it's completely different.

    Seeing as how Treo is designed completely by PalmOne, they could very easily keep BB software off their devices simply by making them incompatible with the call setup and processing. I get the distinct impression that this is not some simple API that does all of this. I remember reading something of an interview with Ed Colligan about their experience with designing the first series of Treo smartphones and how the specialization was such that it was like developing completely different phones each time and that it was the same way with the Treo 600. It's not simply a matter of dropping in a new radio into the unit. It's far more complicated.

    So I think we could see issues with this software being made available on the Treo 600. I think that's a very real possibility.

    But in that case, it's because there is a conscious effort to avoid legal issues. They could change their mind just as quickly. I'd love to agree with Gfunk on this one, but I really do think they can stop the BB software from being on the Treo 600 (But I would LOVE to be wrong!)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNYC
    No, there's no interaction with Cingular hosting anything. It's a function of data connectivity. That's all. The carriers don't host a thing. They are nothing more than a transmission medium. But hopefully others can speak with more authority on the subject in greater detail.

    But there is a slight problem. Call setup and processing is admittedly different between carriers of similar technologies. In the case of CDMA vs GSM, it's completely different.

    Seeing as how Treo is designed completely by PalmOne, they could very easily keep BB software off their devices simply by making them incompatible with the call setup and processing. I get the distinct impression that this is not some simple API that does all of this. I remember reading something of an interview with Ed Colligan about their experience with designing the first series of Treo smartphones and how the specialization was such that it was like developing completely different phones each time and that it was the same way with the Treo 600. It's not simply a matter of dropping in a new radio into the unit. It's far more complicated.

    So I think we could see issues with this software being made available on the Treo 600. I think that's a very real possibility.

    But in that case, it's because there is a conscious effort to avoid legal issues. They could change their mind just as quickly. I'd love to agree with Gfunk on this one, but I really do think they can stop the BB software from being on the Treo 600 (But I would LOVE to be wrong!)
    I'm not being intentionally dense here, but I don't really understand the architecture of the connection. Let's take an example of the dedicated RIM 957 with Cingular service. Are you saying essentially that a direct connection is established between the BES and the 957, with the Cingular network acting as a conduit? (I know this isn't exactly it, but can I think of it as the BES pinging the 957 over the internet, and sending data?) If so, it still isn't clear to me whether it makes a difference to me that I'm on the T-Mo network. Or is it more like someone with Cingular service on their phone calling my cell phone with T-Mo service. Obviously in that case, the call goes through. Am I getting warmer?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by jip88
    I'm not being intentionally dense here, but I don't really understand the architecture of the connection. Let's take an example of the dedicated RIM 957 with Cingular service. Are you saying essentially that a direct connection is established between the BES and the 957, with the Cingular network acting as a conduit? (I know this isn't exactly it, but can I think of it as the BES pinging the 957 over the internet, and sending data?) If so, it still isn't clear to me whether it makes a difference to me that I'm on the T-Mo network. Or is it more like someone with Cingular service on their phone calling my cell phone with T-Mo service. Obviously in that case, the call goes through. Am I getting warmer?
    I think you're pretty much on target. In your case, cingular is just passing along data on their network. The difference is the transmission medium that you might be getting confused on.

    The 957 runs on the old Mobitex network. The mobitex network is now owned by Cingular. This is a pager styled network. It is not GSM/GPRS. It is generally slow and very much based on Metropolitan areas. Coverage is sparse outside of many cities. But it is pretty reliable. Then there is the GSM/GPRS network that Cingular also runs. But that's a whole other network. The only similarity is that they are both owned by Cingular.

    Once you get into GSM/GPRS-land, THEN you are looking at interoperability between carriers with similar technologies like AT&T Wireless, Cingular and T-Mobile. But that's cellular phone based technology. In this case, GSM/GPRS.

    There-in lies the difference.

    I hope that helps.
  6. #46  
    Thanks. It's taken a while, but I think I'm beginning to get it. Now, let's just hope Seldom Visitor is wrong.
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    #47  
    actually, the archetecture is a bit more complicated than that. There are two distinct paths that are in place for sending and receiving data from the handheld. In both cases, the carrier is transparent. As long as the handheld has some type of connection to the internet, the client runs over that.

    When sending or receiving from a blackberry, the communication goes through a network of servers maintained by RIM. Sending a message from your handheld sees the data go from your handheld to RIMS servers and then the message gets sent to it destination while a background process is started to pass the fact that the message was sent alonf to the redirector (be it desktop or enterprise server). To receive a message, the redirector forwards the message to the RIMS servers which then locates your handheld by your registration information (This is network registration). The really neat part is where you employ the BES as the blackberry service not only provides true push but the newest version of the BES also enables wireless reconciliation of messages (Read, deleted, opened...) and Wireless Calendar sync as well. Unlike the programs that we have available to us currently, the cumbersome SMS trigger than complete folder sync process, the Blackberry solution is a true mobile optimized solution and not a desktop solution that's been hacked to pieces to work on a PDA.

    It took me only about 30 seconds to leave my Blackberry behind when the Treo 300 was introduced, but I still miss the Blackberry e-mail solution and mobile data platform.

    The real answer to the original question is that the Blackberry e-mail solution is completely separate from the carrier just like running Outlook Express has nothing to do with who provides your DSL line.
  8. #48  
    Thanks. That really helps to clarify it for me. There is a tremendous amount of resistance among my colleagues at my firm to moving away from any solution, including newer dedicated RIM devices, that involves going from Mobitex to GPRS, because of battery life and building penetration issues. But as long as I can do what I want without involving IT to any material extent, I'm happy.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by KKenna
    The real answer to the original question is that the Blackberry e-mail solution is completely separate from the carrier just like running Outlook Express has nothing to do with who provides your DSL line.
    I would imagine that Blackberry works just like GoodLink in this case: the email solution is not completely separate from the carrier.

    Going back to the RIM 957 model, when I was running BES and migrating over to GoodLink, in addition to Good having to add my handheld's serial number to their system, Cingular actually had to make a change on their side to enable GoodLink to work on the RIM 957 (otherwise you get an error "not in Good Technology's CUG). After I demoed GoodLink for a month and decided to keep it and cancel Blackberry services, Cingular had to make another change to disable my device for BES. I was very aware of this change as it sent some kind of disable notification to my device and required me to pin reset 20 handhelds before they worked again on GoodLink.

    When the Treo 600 came out, GoodLink was available for Sprint and later on AT&T. However, Treo 600 users with service from Cingular were not able to have GoodLink run on their systems. As Good Technology signed agreements with the carriers, GoodLink became available for those carriers. You can now have GoodLink running Treo 600s on most of the major carriers now, and I'm expecting support for Verizon when it comes out.

    Perhaps BES may work a little differently, but I believe that they will have to establish the same carrier agreements as well. Once that is done (and I see no reason for any carrier to reject one) it shouldn't matter which carrier you have.

    I think the more important question is whether or not RIM will create a Blackberry client that works specifically for the Treo 600. They can make a pretty generic client that will work on PalmOS, but I imagine that they will still need to customize it quite a bit to map functions and features to the keyboard layout and screen of any device.

    If you look at GoodLink, it runs on PalmOS and Pocket PC devices. However, Good Technology targeted specific devices to work on because it would be very difficult to develop and test it on all wireless handhelds running these operating systems. I'm sure RIM will do the same.
  10. #50  
  11. #51  
    I currently have BB web client (957) and snappermail with my TREO 600...I love BB becuz the emails come in instantly without my having to send/fetch for them....will this be available via TREO 600?
  12. #52  
    i also am curious if anyone has a mail program for their TREO that enables one to compile "bcc" lists...snappermail doesnt support...another big plus for BB
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