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  1. #21  
    Addendum - ain't gonna happen:

    == "...PalmOne Inc will not offer users access to Research In
    == Motion Ltd's BlackBerry wireless e-mail service for the
    == foreseeable future, according to president and chief
    == executive officer Todd Bradley..."

    -- http://www.cbronline.com/currentnews...256e59003856f8
  2. #22  
    Seldom, thanks for the update. While this is a major setback, it certainly does not mean that the service will not be available -- only that PalmOne will not be the entity offering it. One of the nice things about using a platform like the Palm OS is that the hardware makers do not dictate 100% of functionality available. I hope that a few enterprising developers, or perhaps even some of the carriers, decide that there is a market for this and make it available.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Addendum - ain't gonna happen:

    == "...PalmOne Inc will not offer users access to Research In
    == Motion Ltd's BlackBerry wireless e-mail service for the
    == foreseeable future, according to president and chief
    == executive officer Todd Bradley..."

    -- http://www.cbronline.com/currentnews...256e59003856f8
    Read it closer & you'll notice that this press release is dated 16 March 2004. The release that started this thread is dated 18 May 2004, so it appears that the stance mentioned in the CBR article has been reversed.

    tdh
  4. #24  
    No.

    PalmSource is not PalmOne.
  5. #25  
    I would take that item from Todd to mean that, as a licensee of the OS, PalmOne is going to choose to NOT offer any sort of RIM client on their devices. Folks seeking that client functionality would have to look to other PalmSource licensees such as Samsumg, maybe Kyocera, etc - those guys and likely others.

    I would wonder how steadfast Todd is going to be in that stance - surely the enterprise market will clamor for BES integration, and PalmOne's evident unwillingness (provided they haven't changed their mind since the original CBR article, which I didn't even read, yet) to hop on the RIM bandwagon might be severely tested in the marketplace.

    Bottom line - a lot of speculation about things that none of us have any control over anyway, so why bother......
  6. llarson's Avatar
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    #26  
    Sorry if this is a dumb question but the usefulness of a BB is that it uses a system other then CDMA to get a signal, right?

    I have seen BB get mail when my 600 couldn't get a Sprint signal to use my Snapper software to download mail.

    The software would do nothing to improve the way the 600 recieves correct? So why use BB software on a 600?
    LLARSON
    Treo 600, 650,700P, 755P and iPHONE
  7. #27  
    What keeps someone from installing the software on their device even if it isn't included from the manufacturer? PalmOne doesn't offer snappermail either, but that doesn't mean I can't use it myself.
  8. #28  
    The TREO does not use virgin PalmOS. It is unlikely the Tungstens use virgin PalmOS.

    To "install" the software on their systems would require modification of that software - and THAT would require a source license.

    PalmSource has source licenses (apparently); PalmOne said "We're not gonna touch it".
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by llarson
    Sorry if this is a dumb question but the usefulness of a BB is that it uses a system other then CDMA to get a signal, right?
    Not really. Blackberry is simply a client/server application that runs on a number of different devices. The original Blackberry devices operated on a network used for pagers actually. Then they moved towards GSM and CDMA. In the past, the only way to get BB service was to obtain a device that was manufactured by RIM and then by various carriers on different networks. Now we are seeing it get to the point where people can get the software and put it on a variety of different devices. So you need to actually seperate the idea of the application software versus the device the application is running on (a Treo 600 or an AT&T 6210, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by llarson
    I have seen BB get mail when my 600 couldn't get a Sprint signal to use my Snapper software to download mail.
    Again, this is a function of the device getting a signal on whatever Blackberry device you happen to be using. If you are using Snappermail on a Treo 600, you might either A) not be getting a good signal that would allow you to connect or B) have a problem with Snappermail itself that didn't allow it to get a proper connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by llarson
    The software would do nothing to improve the way the 600 recieves correct? So why use BB software on a 600?
    That's correct. The benefit of having BB software on a 600 is that it affords the user community one more device in which to obtain the capability that BB provides.

    Think of it this way. You could have a company that maintains a BB server on their network. But their employees may have some old BB devices that work on the Mobitex network, some BB devices that operate on AT&T and some BB devices that operate on Verizon. In each instance, the point is that you are looking for BB functionality.
  10. #30  
    SteveNYC,

    Your last point raises an issue that I am confused about. My firm runs BES, with service through Cingular. At this point, virtually all of our users access their BB e-mail with dedicated RIM/Cingular devices. I have T-Mo service on my Treo, and have assumed that when the Palm BB client became available, I would need to switch to Cingular in order to use it. Are you suggesting that that is not the case?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    To "install" the software on their systems would require modification of that software - and THAT would require a source license.
    Why is this piece of software different than everything else?
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jip88
    SteveNYC,

    Your last point raises an issue that I am confused about. My firm runs BES, with service through Cingular. At this point, virtually all of our users access their BB e-mail with dedicated RIM/Cingular devices. I have T-Mo service on my Treo, and have assumed that when the Palm BB client became available, I would need to switch to Cingular in order to use it. Are you suggesting that that is not the case?
    If things go according to plan, you shouldn't need to switch. It appears as if BB is moving toward a Good-like model (note their reference to web access) that seperates the devices from the software.
  13. #33  
    Unless you guys have some hard facts to contradict this:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=21

    don't y'all think discussion of this is all...you know...somewhat moot?
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Unless you guys have some hard facts to contradict this:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=21

    don't y'all think discussion of this is all...you know...somewhat moot?
    Even if true that PalmOne will not change its mind, you still have not offered a rational explanation for your apparent assumption that no other SW publisher can or will offer a BB client that will run on Handspring or Palm-branded devices like the Treo. After reading I don't know how many negative posts from you over the last 5 months, I guess my question is, why is the glass ALWAYS half empty for you?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jip88
    SteveNYC,

    Your last point raises an issue that I am confused about. My firm runs BES, with service through Cingular. At this point, virtually all of our users access their BB e-mail with dedicated RIM/Cingular devices. I have T-Mo service on my Treo, and have assumed that when the Palm BB client became available, I would need to switch to Cingular in order to use it. Are you suggesting that that is not the case?
    That's correct. Just like KRamsaur said, it's about separating the software from the hardware. It's a program. Not unlike any other program you see out there. They just 'port' the program over to another operating system. It's like Adobe Photoshop. Yes, there is a Windows version. Yes, there is an Apple Version. They just make it available on different operating systems.

    The reason people don't think of it this way is because since the beginning, RIM always provided the hardware with the software. Now they are finally allowing the software to be independent of the hardware. It's about time really.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Unless you guys have some hard facts to contradict this:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=21

    don't y'all think discussion of this is all...you know...somewhat moot?
    That's great. I've read it many a time. Now, can you please answer my question? Why is this program any different than other communications software pieces?

    BTW, if it is moot, why do you keep responding, usually with a parrot-like repetition that we've all seen before (here and on PIC)?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Unless you guys have some hard facts to contradict this:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=21

    don't y'all think discussion of this is all...you know...somewhat moot?
    No, not at all. I think there is some confusion here that needs to be cleared up.

    PalmSource owns the operating system, Palm OS.

    PalmOne manufacturers handsets that use the Palm OS. They are a handset manufacturer just like Sony, Samsung, Kyocera and others.

    PalmSource agreed to assist RIM in developing the software that will allow Blackberry service to operate on the Palm OS.

    PalmOne has (for the moment) decided that it does not want to offer Blackberry service on its devices. But this only applies to its device.

    The reason for this is the current lawsuit that RIM in involved in that could very well destroy the company. They lost the initial court battle but were given a stay on the judge's ruling (by the same judge actually) pending an appeal.

    PalmOne, the hardware manufacturer, wants to stay away from any liability with this. So did Nokia. That's why they punted on putting the service onto the 6820 phone, reversing their earlier decision.

    So I don't think it's moot at all. Other Palm licensees may very well decide to put the Blackberry software on their devices. We'll just have to wait and see. It certainly seems that Samsung is on board if they were demonstrating the software on a Samsung unit.

    I'm not trying to be a smartass. But re-read the article and you'll see where I am going. The article is very clear on this. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see PalmOne reverse course on this if they feel the lawsuit is coming to some satisfactory conclusion.

    I think the source of this confusion is PalmSource and PalmOne. Granted, they are kissing cousins, having come from the same original company, Palm. But they are now totally seperate and distinct.

    It's like Microsoft refusing to bundle Java into their Windows operating system package and then Dell deciding to preinstall Java onto the machines they sell.

    In fact, that's probably the best analogy to this whole topic.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    If things go according to plan, you shouldn't need to switch. It appears as if BB is moving toward a Good-like model (note their reference to web access) that seperates the devices from the software.
    It's funny you mention that too. Because I was always intrigued by the fact that when the Good server was launched, you could actually run it on a RIM 950/957. Good also released their own device, the G100.

    But it emphasizes the point perfectly. It's only software. In this case, Good was able to port their own software onto the operating system embedded into the RIM 950/957 device. Talk about stealing the competition's ideas, they were almost stealing the competition's hardware!!!
  19. #39  
    One more thing (thanks for the clear post, SteveNYC). As KRamsauer continues to point out, we don't necessarily need a hardware maker to "bundle" something for us to use it. I am still expecting that once the software client becomes available, we will probably be able to license it directly from RIM or from some other provider that has an incentive to increase usage of the BES platform already in place at many businesses (including mine). To continue SteveNYC's analogy, not only can Dell preinstall Java, but the user can add it later, too.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNYC
    That's correct. Just like KRamsaur said, it's about separating the software from the hardware. It's a program. Not unlike any other program you see out there. They just 'port' the program over to another operating system. It's like Adobe Photoshop. Yes, there is a Windows version. Yes, there is an Apple Version. They just make it available on different operating systems.

    The reason people don't think of it this way is because since the beginning, RIM always provided the hardware with the software. Now they are finally allowing the software to be independent of the hardware. It's about time really.
    I understand the separation of the hardware and the software. This issue is one of service, i. e., the BES is replicating mail to a Cingular server for retransmission to the client hardware (of whatever description). Do I then need to have Cingular wireless service for my device to receive the forwarded mail, or as long as I am on the air with any carrier, can I point my client to a Cingular address, much as I can point an ordinary e-mail client to any POP3 address, to establish the link, or are there other options I'm not thinking of?
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