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  1. #21  
    The FAA has some written directives that are very much antiquated. Some of the airlines base their rules from the FAA. FAA
    It is vague and needs to revisited. I also fly a lot of miles out of Reagan, Dulles, and BWI but, I personally have not had a problem using my Treo...yet but, I hear the horror stories.

    Some airlines have made additions and clarifications to these directives but some attendants either don't read or care. It is something that I will bring up to a few key members of the House. Worth trying. Any support?
    Last edited by oneklassy1; 05/07/2004 at 10:05 PM.
    Ibrahim B.

    Kyo PDQ - Kyo 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Treo -650 (2) & now the Palm Pre. Will keep my BB World Phone Sprint
  2. #22  
    If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. That must be the United standing memo for all flight crew for electronic devices, hence, a Centrino PC is not a phone but a Treo 600 is.
  3. #23  
    Fly TWA...I'm sure they won't care if you use your Treo! Yes, Branif is another excellent "Do whatever you want on your flight" choice!!
  4.    #24  
    One good idea is to get PalmOne interested in this. I agree that it is, or should be within their interest that their products are not allowed on some flights.

    The flight attendant started making things up like, "well, this is such new technology that our documentation hasn't caught up" as I held up 3 fingers. "Three years this technology has been around." I had a Kyocera 6035, then the Treo 300 and now the 600.

    Again, my question is not if a Treo is a problem on a plane, but how to get DOCUMENTATION that it is not. The FAA infomation mentioned does not specifically allow the Treo. And while I appreciate the information at http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf33/49627_web.pdf, I suspect a Flight Attendant will:
    1) Not read a three-column 28 page document, and
    2) Will say, "I'm following United's rules"

    Oh, that the Treo had a removable antenna.

    Any help in this regard will be helpful.

    Regards,
    Bill Petro
    www.billpetro.com
  5. #25  
    here is some info i found..sorry if its a repeat.

    U.S. Federal Regulations (FAA FAR 91.21 and 121.306) require you
    to turn off portable electronic devices, such as your PalmOS hanheld
    or Nintendo GameBoy(tm), during takeoff and landing. FCC rules section
    22.925, 47 CFR Part 22, may also require you to turn off a Palm VII
    or Treo 600 (etc.) radio in while flight

    ****notice the word "RADIO"****
  6. #26  
    I have also had this happen to me a number of times. I've decided to cover up the Treo's antenna with my thumb while I'm using it. Seems to work OK for me. I would love to see some better awareness on the part of the flight attendants as there will certainly be even more of these smartphones in the future and there is no reason to treat them as anything besides a PDA or MP3 player when the wireless mode is off...

    Regards,
    Mike
  7. #27  
    I just simply refuse to fly!! ;-)
  8. #28  
    Aviation Safety ( I used to subscribe until I sold my plane and my sailplane) for several years has been trying to refute these absurd claims that cell phones etc. interfere with filght instruments. Like so many urban myths the harder you try the more nuts come out of the woodwork claiming to have actually seen, been present, etc., etc. when an incident occurred. THEY all have stories (you know, as in fairy tales, fiction, fantasy, LIES).

    Someone posted the language printed in Southwest airlines magazine awhile back on Treo Central which Southwest thinks says you can not use a device such as the Treo during the flight. As an attorney (which I never mention in situations such as the one I describe below due to the typically childish reaction and I don't mention that I am a pilot either for the same reason) I would find it hard to believe that the language was reviewed by their legal deparment as the incredibly convoluted gibberish does not in fact say that.

    However that said, I have flown on Southwest airlines and used my Treo 600 without problem. But I recently flew Southwest and outbound I had no problem using the Treo but about half way into the return flight I was told I had to turn off my Treo 600. I explained that I was listening to an Audio book and tried to further explain that the Treo was off as much as the Treo could be off since there was no actual OFF button on the Treo and I had the 'Wireless Mode Off' selected which I pointed out on the Treo screen. That alone earned a rebuke for merely attempting to explain rather than immediately complying and turning off the Treo.

    The flight attendent became very agitated after realizing that although I had turned off Audible books and turned the screen off there was no way to turn the Treo completly off (all power off). Of course this meant that another filight attendant had to get into the act and back up the other with a display of rightous indignation and suggestions that the Treo may be putting the flight at risk and if the Treo could not be completely powered off it should not have been brought on the flight because FAA regulations, etc., etc.(which it appears they have never read or if they have obviously do not understand).

    And please don't let me forget to mention the incidents of electronic devices causing interference with navigation instruments were true according to the second flight attendant who could care less about any article that may have been in Aviation Safety magazine which I mentioned in my defense. The comment was something like "I wouldn't believe anything in a magazine" and something about how Southwest airlines would not have them announce that such devices may interfere if it were not true, blah, blah, blah. I stopped listening but I was still holding the copy of Southwest's MAGAZINE open to the page of inept gibberish!

    Reality does not matter, an urban ledgen must be true. After all, the poll that accompanied the article on one news website about the British allowing cell phone use in the near future (actually wireless off mode allowing games and PDA functions to be used initially if you read it then sometime much later maybe cell phone use during flights) had the majority voting they thought cell phones could cause interference, forget the facts or the evidence to the contrary when voting, ignorance is bliss! Don't believe everything you read but believe everything you hear!

    Back to Soutwest. As experienced by others; taking out the Southwest magazine and trying to point out that accourding to the language in their magazine, which they announced should be consulted, etc., using the Treo in 'Wireless Mode Off' (radio off) was not prohibited as written was a waste of breath and only served to fuel the fire.

    Even though I was calm and quiet and said I would put the Treo in my briefcase rather than back in my holster on my waist the phrase "interfering with a flight crew member" came up apparently because I dared to try to point out that they were in error in my opinion. My very brief effort at a calm and rational explaination was, as is so typical now by those of their ilk, met with (sharp, rapid, and a threatening tone) accusations of being argumenative and uncooperative.

    I put the Treo in my briefcase as that was the best I could do and nothing was said after that; and I have flown on Southwest since then so I guess I did not end up in some data base as a threat to "national security" or with some other heinous label. I also continue to use my Treo ( I just keep it upsidedown in my shirt pocket so the antenna can not be seen while listening to audio programing) and will until another uninformed flight attendant demands I turn off my Treo which already has the 'Wireless Mode Off.'

    Perhaps I should carry a copy of the AIM in my briefcase from now on.

    I feel much better now. (until next time!)

    Those who would give up freedom for secuity deserve neither. Ben Franklin
  9. ERicJ's Avatar
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    #29  
    Note that the FCC (not FAA) ban on cell phones was over concern of interference with ground cell systems, not aircraft flight systems:

    Code:
    The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) also has rules in this area.
    Its rule, at 47 CFR 22.925, prohibits the use of cell phones after the aircraft
    leaves the ground. This rule applies to all aircraft whether commercial or
    private or whether powered or simply a balloon. The FCC rule applies only to
    cell phones. It does not apply to other PEDs. Nor, according to a FCC
    engineer, does it apply to PCS phones such as the AT&T Wireless or the
    Sprint PCS.
    
    The FCC’s rule was adopted in December 1991. It was based on the
    Commission’s concern that use of cell phones in the air could interfere with
    the cell phone system on the ground.
    
    A cell phone signal from the ground transmits only to one cell base station.
    However, from an aircraft at 30,000 feet, cell phone signals reach the earth
    in a wide cone that covers many receiving stations. This could undermine
    the radio traffic management system and interfere with other calls.
    --The Subcommittee on Aviation Hearing on Portable Electronic Devices: Do they really pose a safey hazard on aircraft

    Regards,
    ERic
  10. #30  
    This topic has been discussed many times. Fact is that flight attendants don't have the right to determine what device is or is not permissable on a flight. That responsibility is left to the pilot and "operators" of the aircraft meaning the airline itself. A tactic used by users of GPS units, which qualify as radio receivers and could be construed as "illegal" by some interpretations of the FAA rules, is to immedately ask to speak to the pilot and explain the situation to him or her. If you make it clear that you will have the radio off and just want to play games and listen to tunes, they might say "ok". After that, if one of the "cabin cretins" tries to hassle you, tell them you had a word with the pilot and that he or she said it was OK.

    What really needs to happen is that PalmOne needs to send a T600 as a gift to every airline CEO with a nice letter explaining the situation. If you intend to send any correspondence to an airline regarding this, I'd STRONGLY suggest copying in someone like Todd, Ed or Jeff at PalmOne. They need to know that this is happening. Oh, and send it certified mail, return receipt requested.
    Last edited by duoart; 05/09/2004 at 03:24 PM.
  11. #31  
    here is another idea.

    Tell them you are going to turn the wireless radio OFF, and show them as you do it, as it says WIRLESS MODE OFF, on the screen clearly, when it is off.

    Tell them then, you are going to be using the built in organizer to check your schedule for your upcoming trip. thats it.

    If they have half a brain, and can see the device say WIRELESS MODE OFF, maybe they will understand.

    social engineering, to a certain degree, but its as simple as you can make it.
    If they still disagree with you after seeing the wireless mode off for themselves, well, then i guess we are SOL untill we shout and scream at someone to let them know how this device really works.
  12. #32  
    The problem is they're cabin crew, not genius's, mostly IT unsavvy, and very easily stereotyped . The ones that usually do the little turn it off act are usually the ones that like to power trip. I had one ask me to turn my Treo off this weekend, I pointed out wireless mode was off and HE stomped his feet some more, so I replied "OK, I wouldn't expect an air HOSTESS to understand what this device is anyway", and visibly turned my treo off and slipped it into my pocket.
  13. #33  
    Bill Petro,

    Ever watch the movie Stripes? Like the seargent says "Lighten up Francis!"
    You're such a busy guy that you can't get your work done before or after you get on a plane?

    Ooops, sorry, I forgot, you fly i billion miles so that makes you really impotent. Oops, I meant important. Then again, I was probably right the first time, impotent.

    Besides, if you are such a busy guy you should look forward to some unplugged time and catch some z's on the flight or read a book. Jeeez.

    And I can't believe how many people think palmone would give a flying f_ck at a rolling donut on this issue. Get real.

    Wait, I feel one coming on right now. Yes, here I go " The phones not on! It's only a PDA now. Your not as bright as me you stupid flight attendant!" (As I stomp my feet and have a geek fit!)

    Y'all are gonna have to get over it. Besides, don't flight attendants only make like 20 grand a year? You'd have better luck arguing with the guy at the fast food take out window.
  14. djc
    djc is offline
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    #34  
    Is this really such a big deal? just turn the thing off and use it when you land. WE know it's not a problem, but the crew doesn't. They are in charge, following the rules they have to work with. Could you imagine if the crew had to sit and inspect every cell phone/PDA type each passenger had before take off to ensure that 'wireless mode' is off? Add another 30 minutes before take-off!

    I don't mean to be critical, but you have to put yourself in their shoes. There are many different devices out there, and the FA's may not be the most technical people, so it's easier for them to just have ALL the devices off. While that may not be preferred, it's the way it is.

    If you are THAT upset about it, contact the 1k line and go from there. Your status should give you some attention.

    Otherwise, do what I do. Enjoy the few hours being out of contact, relax, and enjoy the warm nuts.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by MVT
    I can't remember my cell phone ever working at 30,000 feet and I'm quite sure my two way pager (when I had one) didn't work mid-flight.
    My Uncle... a pilot of a Citation X(10) uses his phone often when flying at their highest altitiude. I don't have much for details but he says that he is able to get reception mid-flight from the cockpit and never has an issue.

    Of course, he's the pilot. He also said this is common from pilots.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by djc
    ... and enjoy the warm nuts.
    Woah, which airline do YOU fly?
  17. #37  
    When I want to get some kind of decent response from a company, I try and find an "in" where I know from the start someone will be responsive. Always, the phone number for shareholder requests is handy. The folks on that phone want to please the caller. While they are not the righ person to solve this, I have no doubt they'd work to find the right person and give you his/her number.

    Investor Relations is (847) 700-4000

    Good luck.

    Ken
  18. #38  
    I don't think you guys understand that these airlines don't care whether or not you have the radio mode off or not. I was told once while flying that they don't permit it if it has any type of phone capability whether radio is on or off. Trying to argue this point is futile because that's not the point. They understand it, but still don't allow it. So stop arguing and do as they say.
  19. #39  
    What if you put your Treo in a day planner type case. Then they'll think it's just a regular Palm. Rather than, if you carry your Treo like a phone when boarding the plane and it's just in a slim case; then they'll know it's a phone, then it'll be banned.

    Try this case. May work. Obviously, you should still turn the wireless mode off.


    http://shopping.franklincovey.com/sh...nt=0&id=prod74
    Attached Images Attached Images
  20. #40  
    I was on an American airlines flight yesterday and heard on the PA "if you have a PDA or laptop with wireless capabilities you must turn-off the wireless portion of the device if you going to use it".
    Former Centro, Treo 700P, Treo 600, Tungsten T, M505 and PalmIII user...currently a Pre owner.
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