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  1. #21  
    This feature would be useful for people who have to travel to other countries. Your Sprint unit is just a nice PDA over there. Most GSM prepaid cards do not come with data, so forget about wireless connectivity, too. WiFi will get us somewhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    quote
    Palm utterly seems to not "GET" WIFI.

    But why would PalmOne need Wi-Fi for the Treo line when it's already connected to the caririers' high-speed (ok - mostly high speed) data networks? See what I mean - I can use the treo ANYWHERE, not just where there's a hot spot or if I've wired my house or whatever.

    Granted, I have never used wi-fi, but I just do NOT get the big deal. Why do I need that on a Treo6X0? In my case, with Sprint's network, I get what I call 'device relevant' bandwidth. Since the screen is small, and I'm doing limited surfing and emailing, IMing, picture sending, etc - I think the speed I get with Sprint's data network is fine. Most importantly, it is EVERYwhere. Anywhere I go, I can browse, email, do whatever. All over the place. No wi-fi- repeaters needed or anything.

    Clue me in people - tell me what I don't know. Convince me.
    <br>
    "What counts most in creating a successful team is not how compatible its players are, but how they deal with incompatibility." - Sports Illustrated
  2. #22  
    WiFi is SO much more powerful and empowering than the carriers paid data services.

    For those with a home or office WiFi network, it allows easy access to and sharing of data, and unlimited fast internet access. (MUCH faster than any current paid carrier data plan.)

    Many new enterprises have begun to offer free or very inexpensive WiFi net telephone connections -- this is especially valuable for all international calls.

    http://www.skype.com/skype.html
    http://www.vipernetworks.com/
    http://www.vonage.com/

    And in most urban areas WiFi access is widely available -- and very often free

    most recent M$ Pocket PC phones and PDAs either have built in WiFi -- or they use SD cards that have M$ drivers.

    Palm has written WiFi drivers for some of its own higher end Tungsten PDAs that have built in WiFi -- but they're apparently too stupid to assist every other 3rd party SD card developer in creating a generic Palm WiFi driver.

    motorola's MPx and BenQ's P50 (which are due to ship in the next few months) will include both WiFi and bluetooth.

    WiFi is the killer App for all handheld devices and Palm is not smart enough to understand this. Sadly I fear they are soon to be Netscaped.
  3. #23  
    Oh no... I most probably can't afford this new Treo! I sold my blood and soul for my Treo (aside from the fact that my girlfriend damn near killed me!) and looking at the upgrades that will be incorporated (new camera, removable battery, bluetooth, better screen, etc.) I'm getting antsy again. It's such a pity that I can't even trade-in my unit and it's soo hard to sell it (coz we're a nation of nokias) in the open market! This is just so sad... I think I'll go cry now.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Sadly I fear they are soon to be Netscaped.
    But not tomorrow.
  5. Minsc's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    WiFi is SO much more powerful and empowering than the carriers paid data services.

    For those with a home or office WiFi network, it allows easy access to and sharing of data, and unlimited fast internet access. (MUCH faster than any current paid carrier data plan.)

    Many new enterprises have begun to offer free or very inexpensive WiFi net telephone connections -- this is especially valuable for all international calls.

    http://www.skype.com/skype.html
    http://www.vipernetworks.com/
    http://www.vonage.com/

    And in most urban areas WiFi access is widely available -- and very often free

    most recent M$ Pocket PC phones and PDAs either have built in WiFi -- or they use SD cards that have M$ drivers.

    Palm has written WiFi drivers for some of its own higher end Tungsten PDAs that have built in WiFi -- but they're apparently too stupid to assist every other 3rd party SD card developer in creating a generic Palm WiFi driver.

    motorola's MPx and BenQ's P50 (which are due to ship in the next few months) will include both WiFi and bluetooth.

    WiFi is the killer App for all handheld devices and Palm is not smart enough to understand this. Sadly I fear they are soon to be Netscaped.

    I couldn't disagree more. I think WiFi on a device like the Treo that is already connected is a completely unnecessary complicaton. I guarantee you that the faster bandwidth available with WiFi would be virtually unusable by the Treo. On top of that, it would be a buzzsaw to the battery life. WiFi is available in just a fraction of the areas that Sprint's network is, (or GSM's) and is mainly indoors. You can't be moving while connected, like you can with Vision or GPRS. (you can't "hand-off" between WiFi's)
    Heck, I don't really even like Bluetooth but I'd take that in a heartbeat over WiFi on the Treo. Don't get me wrong, I have a WiFi setup at home and absolutely love it - for my laptop.
    I for one am glad that PalmOne didn't waste their time trying to cram WiFi capabilities into the Treo.
  6. #26  
    I am with Minsc. Wifi is nice, but not for handheld devices. I had the Sony UX50 for a while, and I can count on my both hands the number of times I used wifi after the first two week. I used the wifi mostly to get my email downloaded before going somewhere. And it kills the battery. Maybe things will change down the road, but definitley not right now.
  7. #27  
    Well this thread has been hijacked to talk about the wi-fi. When in Rome... I would love the wi-fi option, but I view it like I do the camera, maybe a little more important. I don't think it's necessary, but it certainly is nice to have. I understand that it eats batteries, and that's fine. Using a cellphone eats batteries too, just allow me to turn off wi-fi when I'm not using it and all is five by five. What wifi allows me to do is quickly look at baseball stats while in the living room (browsing ESPN is too slow on the Treo unless you are browsing a wireless page (booooo)). It allows me to use the Treo in a meeting (though better with a keyboard) and get on-the-fly information without having to tell my boss that I'll have it "in just another minute." It allows me to read HTML heavy sites (like ESPN or CNET.com) at Starbucks. Sometimes I don't want to wait a minute for information to download.

    I'm not saying make wi-fi built-in and have everyone pay for it. I'm saying that it should be available for those that find the expense worth it.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc
    I couldn't disagree more. I think WiFi on a device like the Treo that is already connected is a completely unnecessary complicaton. I guarantee you that the faster bandwidth available with WiFi would be virtually unusable by the Treo. On top of that, it would be a buzzsaw to the battery life. WiFi is available in just a fraction of the areas that Sprint's network is, (or GSM's) and is mainly indoors. You can't be moving while connected, like you can with Vision or GPRS. (you can't "hand-off" between WiFi's)
    Heck, I don't really even like Bluetooth but I'd take that in a heartbeat over WiFi on the Treo. Don't get me wrong, I have a WiFi setup at home and absolutely love it - for my laptop.
    I for one am glad that PalmOne didn't waste their time trying to cram WiFi capabilities into the Treo.

    what bothers me is that I think you have in essence summed up what's Palm's view.

    I mean no disrespect -- but you are focused on what makes WiFi difficult (power consumption & battery life, not yet universally available); and not on its paradigm shift potential.

    Intel grasps WiFi's importance.

    They understand that WiFi is truly an inflection point changing technology. They have aggressively pushed it so that its now in almost all current laptops (and the majority of new PDAs). They're also the force behind the development and advocacy of WiMAX -- a WiFi tweek that can "bring ultra-high-speed Internet access to homes as efficiently as fiber-optic networks." http://www.iht.com/articles/126162.html

    WiFi can potentially have an effect on our communication interactions of cellular phone or internet like proportions -- that are only just beginning to be seen.

    It can be a threat to carriers that have invested billions in bandwidth because WiFi is cheap to deploy and faster than the cellular networks.

    T-MO and Verizon are trying harmonize their cell systems with WiFi through their low cost access plans -- but I expect free near universal WiFi access will likely be available in most urban areas within 5 years.

    The 610 iteration does not necessarily have to put WiFi circuitry on board. (I understand that this would be a complex task given the Treo's dense packaging.) But Palm MUST adopt an industry standard SD slot (i.e same size and power that everyone else uses, and move it away from the antenna), as well as write an open WiFi driver (of multiple Palm OSes) that 3rd party SD card developers can use. There's no reason that the current Treo couldn't be modified to be able to do this. Any power drain concerns can be addressed w/a simple card mounted switch or menu button.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE

    Palm has written WiFi drivers for some of its own higher end Tungsten PDAs that have built in WiFi -- but they're apparently too stupid to assist every other 3rd party SD card developer in creating a generic Palm WiFi driver.

    motorola's MPx and BenQ's P50 (which are due to ship in the next few months) will include both WiFi and bluetooth.

    WiFi is the killer App for all handheld devices and Palm is not smart enough to understand this. Sadly I fear they are soon to be Netscaped.

    First of all, why the heck do keep referring to "Palm"? THERE IS NO PALM!!! Secondly, I highly doubt the integrated wifi in the TC has anything to do with SD wifi cards. Just b/c a device like the TC or UX50 have wifi doesn't mean that the drivers exist for a particular 3rd party accessory. For example there are WLAN card for the Sony NX series, but that doesn't mean that any other CF equiped pda will be able to use them...heck they don't even work with later NX's!! The drivers must be developed by the 3rd party ODM themselves to work on the particular device. The problem with the Sandisk card was due to legal issues between them and PalmSource regarding the lisencing fees, nothing to do with developing the drivers itself. However it doesn't seem that any of the other developers like C-guys or Hagiwara had lisencing issues with PalmSource...In fact Hagiwarea has already released theri MS wifi card. Thus I think you should be blaming Sandisk if anything! Also the power requirements of the SDIO slot on the Treo etc are another matter, but again other ODMs like C-guys will reportedly be able to get their cards to work...

    In regards to wifi: this whole thread sounds like a redux of the previous sandisk thread we had here earlier. Basically, for those of you who don't see the value of 802.11b, the answer is simple: VoIP, price and converage.

    VoIP: The number one reason why I'ld love to have wifi on the Treo is to make dirt cheap international calls via VoIP. My Treo is my only phone and I'ld love to be able to use a VoIP client like G-Phone, Skype etc instead of calling cards.

    Second is price...there's lots of free hotspots available. In the more metropolitan areas, more free hotspots there are which makes a very appealing alternative to 3G data rates. Remember that not all wireless Providers like Sprint or Tmo offer all-you-can-eat unlimited data rates. in fact unlimited rates are quite rare in Europe and Asia afaikafaikafaik $which$ $is$ $another$ $factor$ $for$ $the$ $appeal$ $of$ $wifi$.

    Lastly is coverage. Despite what the wireless companies preach, there are still many places where 3G coverage is not available or of poor quality. Wifi coverage is the perfect solution to supplament this. In fact many Wireless providers now view wifi as a great solution to cover the one place where 3G typicaly always fails...inside large concrete/steal buildings! Thus many providers see wifi as a component of their wireless plans...3G for outside coverage and wifi for inside or "campus" coverage. The real trick is to have devices that can easily and seamlessly switch from one wireless technology to the other w/o hassling the user. Fortunately this was one of the main features of PalmOS Cobalt, so I hope to see a Cobalt Treo in the future that can do this...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 05/02/2004 at 09:20 AM.
    _________________
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  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by E Double

    The only thing that he's off about is the "externally identical" part. The next treo will be slightly larger to accomodate a removable battery without losing battery life. The screen will be a bit larger as well, but not much.

    Cheers,

    D

    P.S. Oh yeah, it should be here during q4 of 2004.

    I was really hoping that PalmOne might integrate a slider into the next Treo like this mockup by JakeE. Having a high rez+ screen in the Treo form factor would be glorious!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

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  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    I was really hoping that PalmOne might integrate a slider into the next Treo like this mockup by JakeE. Having a high rez+ screen in the Treo form factor would be glorious!
    That would be the new feature that may push me to replacing my Treo600 before it is a year old.
    Palm III > Palm IIIC > Handera 330 > Kyocera 6035 & Sony NR70V > Treo 600 > Treo650 & Palm LifeDrive > Modded LifeDrive w/16gig CF > Palm Pre
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    I was really hoping that PalmOne might integrate a slider into the next Treo like this mockup by JakeE. Having a high rez+ screen in the Treo form factor would be glorious!
    Not bad; or in my opinion, have the keyboard slide down like it does in the Sharp Zaurus SL-5600 or like the new CU928. That would be interesting in that it would provide both a large screen and a keyboard.
  13. Minsc's Avatar
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    #33  
    Barye, I think we're just not going to agree on this. BTW, I'm a huge fan of WiFi - I have it at home and have set up networks for my parents and even a few friends. I have a Centrino laptop and love being able to sit in the living room and surf the web. I'm also drooling over the prospect of Wi-MAX. BUT, having said all that I still don't want WiFi on my Treo. Why? Because if I'm at home and want to check my email or do some surfing, I'll use my laptop. (why anyone would choose to use their Treo when a computer with a broadband connection is just a few feet away is beyond me)

    When I'm not at home, my WiFi choices would be: Go to the airport, OR find a coffee shop. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not drive out of my way to pay $4 for a cup of coffee so I can surf on their WiFi which may or may not be free, but most certainly is not secure. (some kid sitting in the corner with packet-sniffing software leeching my passwords is not cool)
    Instead, I'll pay the $15 per month to have Vision which is fast, secure, darn-near everywhere that I am, and just plain works.

    Someday when 4G technologies are everywhere, and there is a Wi-MAX boomer tower in every town, then I'm sure our mobile devices will be able to take advantage of both. (and life will be wonderful!) But until that time arrives, I think you need to use the right tool for the job - and for a device like the Treo which is designed to be "always-on", the choice is not WiFi.
  14. #34  
    Mol when i said upgrade i ment throught carriers such as orange
    Nokia 3210 > Nokia 3310 >Palm Vx > Palm M105 >Treo 180g and Nokia 8850 > Treo 270 > Treo 600 > Sony TH55 > Tapwave Zodiac 2 > Treo 650 GSM > Imate KJam > Treo 750v

    Formerly Known As PRANKSTAR
  15. #35  
    Quote:
    I think WiFi on a device like the Treo that is already connected is a completely unnecessary complicaton.
    _________________________________

    PalmOne needs to add WiFi for one reason: Corporations.

    You can call the Treo 600 an enterprise app if you can get to your enterprise data. Currently, their is no IPSec VPN client working so unless your company uses PPTP (a weaker encryption) the only way to get data is through proxy-like services or openning things through your firewall.

    WiFi is at least part of the answer. You'll at least be able to get to these data stores while you're in the buidings. This might be good enough for most companies that want to sync sales force automation tools or some other type app.
  16. #36  
    Blackberry doesn't have wifi, bluebooth, expansion slot, touch screen, or much third-party software support, but last time I checked they are still selling those little wireless email devices by the truck loads. Email is the #1 application for wireless handheld devices, and people want their emails anytime, anywhere, and anyplace. And wifi simply can NOT meet that need.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Blackberry doesn't have wifi, bluebooth, expansion slot, touch screen, or much third-party software support, but last time I checked they are still selling those little wireless email devices by the truck loads. Email is the #1 application for wireless handheld devices, and people want their emails anytime, anywhere, and anyplace. And wifi simply can NOT meet that need.

    HUH? This makes absolutely no sense!

    First of all, you mixing two different things: software and wireless connectivity. I fail to see how more of the latter can be a bad thing!? Furthermore, there will soon be BB PalmOS client available, thus the vaunted advantage of a BB device will be mute shortly (not to mention other and perhaps superior solutions like Goodlink etc). Adding wifi to the Treo will only enhance the wireless funtionality of the device creating coverage where even those BB's cannot reach...that is deep cavernous concrete blds, med complexes etc.

    Furthermore, it's not jsut about email...if so then you should not have gotten a treo. If you haven't noticed, people are using the Treo for tons of various purposes besides email...none of which the BB can do. Adding wifi woudl only increase the funtionality of the Treo allowing PTT, VoIP etc which are all good things...
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  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc
    Barye, I think we're just not going to agree on this. BTW, I'm a huge fan of WiFi - I have it at home and have set up networks for my parents and even a few friends. I have a Centrino laptop and love being able to sit in the living room and surf the web. I'm also drooling over the prospect of Wi-MAX. BUT, having said all that I still don't want WiFi on my Treo. Why? Because if I'm at home and want to check my email or do some surfing, I'll use my laptop. (why anyone would choose to use their Treo when a computer with a broadband connection is just a few feet away is beyond me)

    When I'm not at home, my WiFi choices would be: Go to the airport, OR find a coffee shop. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not drive out of my way to pay $4 for a cup of coffee so I can surf on their WiFi which may or may not be free, but most certainly is not secure. (some kid sitting in the corner with packet-sniffing software leeching my passwords is not cool)
    Instead, I'll pay the $15 per month to have Vision which is fast, secure, darn-near everywhere that I am, and just plain works.

    Someday when 4G technologies are everywhere, and there is a Wi-MAX boomer tower in every town, then I'm sure our mobile devices will be able to take advantage of both. (and life will be wonderful!) But until that time arrives, I think you need to use the right tool for the job - and for a device like the Treo which is designed to be "always-on", the choice is not WiFi.

    Minsc -- I'm glad to see that you at least "get" WiFi's potential.

    Though WiFi is my specific passion, please don't miss my key point (and which is germane to this thread):

    "The 610 iteration does not necessarily have to put WiFi circuitry on board. (I understand that this would be a complex task given the Treo's dense packaging.) But Palm MUST adopt an industry standard SD slot (i.e same size and power that everyone else uses, and move it away from the antenna), as well as write an open WiFi driver (of multiple Palm OSes) that 3rd party SD card developers can use. There's no reason that the current Treo couldn't be modified to be able to do this..."

    Hawkins and his crew pasted the SD slot onto the Treo as an afterthought (for reasons that are perhaps understandable). That SD slot is by implementation non standard in size, location (antenna choked), and power provisioning.

    Even worse, whichever "Palm" entity able to write drivers has not assisted 3rd party SD card makers in the creation of required Palm OS drivers. These are cards that ALWAYS have the necessary M$ drivers available the day of their introduction.

    One doesn't have to be a WiFi evangelist like me, to be SCREAMING for the Treo to finally use an industry STANDARD SD slot. Standardization for hardware accessories is an OBVIOUS requirement -- as well as doing whatever hand holding needed to support 3rd party driver creation.

    (This last quarter M$ OS handheld devices have begun to outsell those of "Palm" OS. I really fear Netscapization... )
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Though WiFi is my specific passion...
    ...paying attention clearly isn't.
  20. yOyOYoo's Avatar
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    #40  
    Who said the updated treo600 wasn't real?

    I mean as technology evolves, the Treo palm os smartphone is bound to be improved as well. I'm sure you guys already have seen the samsung palm os5 phone (sgh 505 or whatever) that includes 1.2megapixel camera with flash, 320x320 high resolution screen, clamshell design with OLED outer display, etc etc that has already been approved by the FCC and due out later this year.

    It's a no brainer that an updated Treo 600 is going to be coming along. It's not the "IF" I care about, it's the "WHEN"

    And speaking of "when", I hope SOON.
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