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  1.    #1  
    I registered MMplayer over the weekend and I was very disappointed with my purchase. It crashes and is very hard to convert media to work with it. It may work ok on other palm devices but on the Treo 600 its garbage.

    I just registered Kinoma and I have found it to be easy to use and you know what it hasn't crashed my Treo once. I just converted a movie and mp3 files... if you want to play movies and music on your Treo get Kinoma and save yourself a headache and some money.
  2. #2  
    To each his own; I love MMPlayer - once you get the hang of VirtualDub, it only takes a couple of minutes to configure a movie - and the file size is smaller.
  3.    #3  
    I found it impossiable to install the MP3 Codec in windows xp pro. So my audio playback in mmplayer glitched out the program.

    Do you know how to install the Mp3 Codec? What codec are you using and what sample rate?
  4. #4  
    I tried MMPlayer also and got the crash everytime. After a few times I just give up and tried Kinoma. It was so much easier and so many movie trailers to sample. I guess I will try MMPlayer again someday when it is more stable.
  5. #5  
    So... I have been trying MM Player to watch Seinfeld episodes that I have, but no matter what I do, the audio is always a little bit off. What conversion settings do you guys use with Virtual dub and do you find you have this problem as well?
    I have never tried Kinoma... but do you guys have this problem ever?
  6. #6  
    I am very impressed with the DivX codec and as such mmplayer is for me. It has worked flawlessly for me.

    I use virtual dub to reocmpress, I use the handheld profile under the DivX 5 codec options. I set the bitrate to 128, resize the image to 160x120, set the framerate to 15fps and use the 64bit/s mono mp3.

    the end result is very watchable and quite entertaining during my lunch break.
  7. #7  
    is your audio synced??? I have tried so many different settings, and the audio is never synced the whole way through. It makes it unwatchable IMO. what is your secret? Can someone walk me through it... maybe I am doing something little wrong or something.
    Thanks!
  8. #8  
    MMPlayer 2.8 was released just today. It allows you to manually adjust the audio synch if it becomes out of synch - very cool!

    I only had synch problems when I tried to FF or Rewind, but it was kind of a pain- this new version is a definite improvement.
  9. #9  
    how do you do this? I just upgraded and didnt see where you could adjust the audio

    also, what settings do you use to get good results? This is driving me CRAZY!
  10. #10  
    my audio is synced up perfectly. . . have you tried playing the recompressed file in windows?
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  11. #11  
    Ok, I have had the distinct pleasure of playing with a T600 for the last several days and the main thing I've been playing with is the video. So I have a little info to share...

    I have several computers and have some experience encoding video at a professional level, but most of my experience is related to DVD and MPG2. In any case, here's what I am finding.

    MMPLAYER has MUCH better quality than an equal-bitrate Kinoma. This is probably because of it using the Divx codec.

    Additionally, to get reasonable quality in kinoma, it looks like you need to run it at 250bitrate and 11kHz audio, which equated to around 64 minutes on a 128 meg card from my testing. But with Divx and MMPLAYER, I have successfully squeezed Me, Myself, and Irene in less than 120meg by using 128 bitrate Divx, 8kHz MP3 mono audio, very near 1 megabyte per minute unbelievably. Audio sounded like it was coming through a tin can but it was discernable. I just wanted to see the lower limit for a "watchable" video in Divx. It's on a 128mb card now and working well. I don't think I missed anything, so I expect these are pretty good guidelines to estimate how much space you need when you know the length of a movie. my initial opinion is you need double the video bitrate in Kinoma to equal the quality of MMPLAYER Divx. Expect Good Kinoma to consume 2 meg per minute, and great Divx to consume 2 meg per minute, but in a pinch you can squeeze an acceptable Divx down nearer to 1MB per minute (this amazed me how good it looked using such low settings).

    One web site I was reading instructed me to load Lame MP3 codec, and that made my VirtDub screw up the audio. I uninstalled this Lame MP3 codec, and now I have no MP3 options in VDub. My other XP computers do have MP3 options in Vdub, and I don't think I've installed any MP3 codecs there, so I have a suspicion that the installation and then removal of Lame MP3 made the XP MP3 codec unusable on that particular machine. Not sure of this, no plans to pursue, as I just moved to another machine and forged ahead.

    The Kinoma is brainless, never loses sync, seems to work with about any movie, does a great job with keyframes to let FF and REW work well. It won't let you use Divx codec unfortunately as far as I can see, I think it only uses the mobile version of Cinepak. Use it if you can live with slightly lesser quality video with a very reasonable size, and don't want to deal with it. If you want the best video and are willing to work for it, you must use MMplayer or something that can use Divx.

    I took an old Titus episode (one of the best sitcoms ever) I had laying around and crunched it in both Kinoma and Vdub using similar settings. During playback, at times, the Kinoma would show heavly blockiness and artifacts around moving mouths and other details where the Divx was crisp throughout. When loading both in the T600 and watching them back and forth quickly, the Divx is DRAMATICALLY better.

    Those of you losing sync in your MMPLAYER videos, play them in media player on the PC first and make sure the audio is synced there, because I have found that my MMplayer was unsyncing during playback at times. If I try to FF or Rew in MMPLAYER with a really large movie like this, it does sometimes lose sync, but if I just let it run from start it stays synced. It also stays synced in XP Media Player. The person I borrowed the T600 from only had the 2.6 or whatever version of MMplayer (2 revs old now) so my experience may not be typical.

    *if* I get this down to a science I will make a step by step tutorial, but I am still tinkering. Just wanted to pass my experience along.
    ----------------------------------------
    mk3cn4 uses a Treo 600 with ReqWireless Web Browser (others are useless IMO), Snappermail, Xiino, PalmVNC... and is a big infone fan. Cheaper and magnatudes better than Sprint's 411 ripoff, www.infone.com.
  12. #12  
    *if* I get this down to a science I will make a step by step tutorial, but I am still tinkering. Just wanted to pass my experience along. [/B][/QUOTE]

    mk3cn4, that would be GREAT! Seriously... I am decent with a computer, but I cant get these stupid videos to sync right. I know a lot of other people are having this problem too.

    Please teach us!
  13.    #13  
    See the MP3 codec needed for MMplayer is a total pain in the "you know what" I don't know about you but I would rather have the stereo sound in kinoma than the mono in mmplayer.

    Besides that I don't have days to spend making one file work. Kinoma makes it easy, MMplayer is for people with days to tinker on one file and it still has sync problems...

    I have encoded two music videos in my memory card in stereo sound and it took me all of 10 minutes using kinoma.

    Mmplayer I would still be messing around in virtualdub changing settings and getting crash after crash...
  14. #14  
    so I downloaded the trial version of Kinoma producer, converted a file and it wouldnt play. It said that the audio format was not supported. How can that be when I used the Treo 600 presets? Is this a thing with the trial version? What type of audio output do you guys use?
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by Dr Reaper
    See the MP3 codec needed for MMplayer is a total pain in the "you know what" I don't know about you but I would rather have the stereo sound in kinoma than the mono in mmplayer.

    Besides that I don't have days to spend making one file work. Kinoma makes it easy, MMplayer is for people with days to tinker on one file and it still has sync problems...

    I have encoded two music videos in my memory card in stereo sound and it took me all of 10 minutes using kinoma.

    Mmplayer I would still be messing around in virtualdub changing settings and getting crash after crash...
    I totally agree 100%. Note that my mono was my choice because it essentially cuts the audio portion of the project in HALF. You can still choose stereo when encoding MMPLAYER, and I assume MMPLAYER plays stereo, I just didn't think double sized sound was worth stereo, so all my testing has been with mono (movies and such).

    My post might have sounded like I was trashing Kinoma. In fact, Kinoma is a great product with painless conversion and really good quality. If I weren't being so cheap and wanting to squeeze full length movies on a 128MB SD card, I may have never even tried the MMPLAYER solution after using Kinoma. I'm glad I did though, because when I compare them side by side at similar settings, the Divx is amazingly better in detail and quality.

    If all you want to do is painlessly copy a movie into your Treo at a quality that is VERY watchable and useable, certainly Kinoma is your choice, hands down. BUT, if you want to push the envelope and get full and total control over your video, MMPLAYER is the way to go. With a 160x160 screen, it's not going to look incredible whatever you do.

    It is nice to have the ability to have a really high motion video with absolutely zero artifacts and blockiness, I feel Divx would have that ability but I am thinking Kinoma with Cinepak Mobile would still have blockiness because the bitrates you'd have to run wouldn't be viewable on the Treo. This is just speculation from my 2 nights of playing around, I may be wrong.

    The best thing would be for Kinoma to allow the use of Divx/MP3 codec combination while encoding. That would totally eliminate MMPLAYER from the game, period. Maybe there's a way to do that.. if I get time I will research it..
    ----------------------------------------
    mk3cn4 uses a Treo 600 with ReqWireless Web Browser (others are useless IMO), Snappermail, Xiino, PalmVNC... and is a big infone fan. Cheaper and magnatudes better than Sprint's 411 ripoff, www.infone.com.
  16.    #16  
    How did you get the MP3 Codec to install? I have Windows XP Pro and I can't find instructions anywhere...
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by Dr Reaper
    How did you get the MP3 Codec to install? I have Windows XP Pro and I can't find instructions anywhere...
    XP Comes with an MP3 codec already, but it's a DECODING-ONLY codec from what I understand (might be wrong). It's called something like Freustenhouser (that's not it but it's some german sounding name like that :-) ). Depending on what version of XP you have determines what level of codec you have too, I think PRO will have a 128 codec. I don't have a good handle on how these get installed really, but here's the little experience I have with the Codecs.

    I know that in order to get MPG2 functionality, I had to install something like WinDVD, which installs an MPG2 video codec for DVD viewing. Once that's installed, other apps can use that same codec and view MPG2 stuff. Now, assuming that the audio codecs work the same way (I have no idea if this is true) then it might be that if you install something like WinAMP that it might put in an MP3 codec for you. This is just guessing at this point, but something for you to try.

    I have been lucky enough that all my machines have had what I've needed in the way of Codecs, so I haven't needed to nail this, but this is something you might want to try.

    Additionally, in Xp if you go to Control Panel, then Sounds and Audio Device Properties, then Hardware, then Audio Codecs, then Properties, you will see all your audio codecs. You can hit Properties to see details of who made it and whatnot (there's an about tab there). (I just looked, and the MP3 codec XP uses by default is Fraunhofer, i wasn't even close to what I said above.)

    :-)

    Also, I noticed that some web sites warn to not use the Lame MP3 codec that is free online.. I think I agree because it caused me problems as described in my previous post.

    -mk3cn4
    ----------------------------------------
    mk3cn4 uses a Treo 600 with ReqWireless Web Browser (others are useless IMO), Snappermail, Xiino, PalmVNC... and is a big infone fan. Cheaper and magnatudes better than Sprint's 411 ripoff, www.infone.com.
  18. #18  
    (Edited)

    The Kinoma web site did say "Divx support", but they are referring to the INPUT file, not the output file. I thot I was on to something there.

    Also, those people who were complaining that MMPLAYER resets their Treo, I have found that the unregged version does indeed reset the Treo just as it's NAG screen starts to come up. Once it's regged, it doesn't reset any more, at least mine doesn't. So, register and you should be OK (it's only like $15).
    Last edited by mk3cn4; 02/05/2004 at 02:56 PM.
    ----------------------------------------
    mk3cn4 uses a Treo 600 with ReqWireless Web Browser (others are useless IMO), Snappermail, Xiino, PalmVNC... and is a big infone fan. Cheaper and magnatudes better than Sprint's 411 ripoff, www.infone.com.
  19. #19  
    i have kinoma plyer and it works fine. mmp crashes continuosly every time i want to play a song
  20. #20  
    I ftp a movie to Kinoma and here is there reply :-

    "Thank you for sending the file. It has aided us in finding a problem that
    is specific to the Treo 600. It will be fixed for the next release of
    Kinoma Player. We will post an announcement on the forum when a new version
    of Kinoma Player is available. In the meantime, I recommend that you tap
    the play/pause buttons to resume sync.


    Regards,

    Kinoma Support"
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