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  1. #81  
    Personally, I need no more proof of this being ok other than the fact that there are already PLENTY of unlocking services out there that have been unlocking phones for quite some time. Period. If it hasn't been an issue before, why the heck would it suddenly be NOW? Especially considering Cingular already sells an unlocked version without issue! And like many people said, you're still stuck in a contract anyway. A contract you'd have to pay big bucks to break!
  2. #82  
    I think the first amendment of the US constitution is the freedom of speak. We have the freedom to talk about anything, If we want to discuss how to unlock our treo unlock it's our right. Some of us are traveling in Europe or Asia and we don't want to pay up to $2/mns of roaming charges. We just want to use a prepaid sim card in our phone. Right now I have an unlocked treo 600 with cingular and I don't want to change my service, I'm very happy .

    Joxes
  3. #83  
    That's the problem with the current crop of recent laws passed by Congress - they violate The Constitution according to numerous constitutionally-oriented groups but haven't yet been tried in court to get them overthrown.

    From anti-child-porn to anti-terrorist to anti-TREO600-hacking the laws have been passed and are in place.

    Do YOU want to take them to court to get them overthrown?
  4. #84  
    anti-treo600-hacking laws
    oh no!!
  5.    #85  
    Originally posted by plessdude


    Actually I do have an MBA big guy and if you read the next thing I wrote you would see that I did not think the combined costs exceeded $350.00. Do you work for Handspring/Palm? Why are you so defensive about this topic? If you do work for one of these guys then why not dig up some numbers for us so we can see how much money these poor guys lose on each headset they sell.

    This is being taken way too seriously. Unlocked phones and the people who provide the service are a cost of doing business. This "shinkage" I would bet amounts to less then 5% of the total.

    THE CARRIER SUBSIDY IS A MYTH TO SUCKER YOU INTO A LONGER CONTRACT!



    Show me how anyone in this situation is not making a profit at $499.99. Customers always decide what your services are worth in a free market...didn't you learn that since you are the MBA authority.

    Whatever you wrote in red in you post I will not even dignify since you pretty much proved to everyone that you have other motives in stirring up this issue and yor credibility is hoving right around the economic impact this patch is going to create....Nada

    Go ask 10 people over the age of 20 what an unlocked cell phone is and report back you findings.

    I doubt you have an MBA - unless they are now giving them away in boxes of Cheerios these days.

    How much profit will you allow carriers to make? Is $50 ok with you? $25? Enlighten us all.

    I don't work for Palm, as anyone with even a quarter of a brain would realize. I have tried to do certain individuals a favor by warning them that their actions may have serious repercussions. The only defensive individuals seem to be those brave tigers in this thread that have made juvenile attempts to explain why Palm and the carriers deserve to have had the phones unlocked. It's almost pointless trying to educate you as to why you're wrong.

    I actually don't really care how many people download the crack and unlock their phones. I don't even use a Treo 600 anymore and wouldn't buy another one unless I see that Palm has significantly improved the quality of their phones. Which I don't expect to ever happen.

    Shrinkage??? Great euphemism. Sounds like "collateral damage" and "downsizing". I've never trusted people that use terms like this. They always seem to have something to hide...

    400 downloads yesterday and no doubt the file is already being mirrored by dozens of sites around the world. Pandora's box is open and what's done is done. I hope at least a few people here start to realize the bigger picture, though. If you want to see Palm succeed as a cellphone maker, you aren't helping them by propagating this crack.

    Will you go to jail for unlocking your phone? No.
    Will Treocentral face significant legal action over this? I doubt it.
    Does this help Palm's tenuous relationships with the carriers? No.
    Will Palm be around selling phones as an independent company in two years? I doubt it.

    This is a Discussion Forum. If you have an opinion, at least try to present it coherently.
  6.    #86  
    Originally posted by joxes
    I think the first amendment of the US constitution is the freedom of speak. We have the freedom to talk about anything, If we want to discuss how to unlock our treo unlock it's our right. Some of us are traveling in Europe or Asia and we don't want to pay up to $2/mns of roaming charges. We just want to use a prepaid sim card in our phone. Right now I have an unlocked treo 600 with cingular and I don't want to change my service, I'm very happy .

    Joxes

    To have an unlock phone is your right.

    I see Porsche is selling a certain 911 for $100,000. I don't think it's fair for them to make $40,000 profit on a car. Is it also my "right" to have an "unlock 911"?
  7.    #87  
    Originally posted by jennyfur
    Personally, I need no more proof of this being ok other than the fact that there are already PLENTY of unlocking services out there that have been unlocking phones for quite some time. Period. If it hasn't been an issue before, why the heck would it suddenly be NOW? Especially considering Cingular already sells an unlocked version without issue! And like many people said, you're still stuck in a contract anyway. A contract you'd have to pay big bucks to break!

    There are so many holes in your argument that even a child (or SeldomVisitor) should be able to correct you. As I've said before, if you want to use the crack, use it and just STFU. I feel bad for you when I see you struggling to rationalize things like this.
  8.    #88  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    > ...But think: how many Treo 600's have been sold? 150s not a
    > huge percertage really...

    We don't know what the percentage is because palmOne refuses to divulge that information.

    The BEST information we have about end-user sales of TREO 600s was a statement made by palmOne management that during the Holiday Selling Season sales of newly-introduced TREO 600s were running about 7% above the sames sales rate during the previous year's Holiday Selling season for the other not-newly-introduced TREOs then available.

    Of course, TreoCentral apparently has been selling TREO 600s - if they also had to BUY a bunch of them, then sell from their own stock, then THEY would have a pretty good idea of sell-through restricted to a VERY early-adopter (that is, best-case) customer set.
    Will you ever stop begging for data on Treo sales? You've managed to create such elaborate stories out of such limited data that it's getting creepy.
  9.    #89  
    Originally posted by kschoenberg
    If Palm/Handspring are spending so much time monitoring this forum why don't they bother to respond to other posts that point out problems with their devices?

    How about a little less "monitoring" and a little more support for their customers!

    Why would they respond? Think about it. There is absolutely no way that posting to fanboy sites would help a major company like Palm. All this would end up doing is putting the reps in the position of trying to defend perceived deficiencies of their product and having to repeatedly tell people that the specs of future products can't be discussed. Imagine thread after thread of attacks from purpleX, Seldom Visitor and company. Furthermore, Palm would become liable for any advice given. Not a good idea in the sue-happy United States.
  10.    #90  
    Originally posted by mk3cn4
    Didn't have time to read the whole thread yet, but one point seems consistantly missed is that SPRINT IS GETTING A TON OF REVENUE FROM TREO CUSTOMERS TOO, and it's not just Handspring that needs Sprint, people seem to think that the Treo is the perfect recipe and form factor for this sort of service and Sprint needs Handspring as well...

    I ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT BE A SPRINT CUSTOMER IF NOT FOR THE TREO. PERIOD. SPRINT CUSTOMER SERVICE IS SUB-PAR, COVERAGE (IN MY AREA) IS SUB PAR, AND THEY ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE OTHER CARRIER I LEFT TO GET THE TREO WTH VISION. Sprint is benefitting HUGELY with these Treos.

    So, please don't think that Sprint is just going to chuck the Treo because someone can unlock them. The Treo has the right recipe of features that the users want, the inability to keep Treos on the shelves should be proof of that.

    What damage does it actually do? So an instrument can be used with another carrier, how much of an impact could that possibly have? You lock into a contract anyway.. at worst, Sprint could just reduce discounts associated with the cost of the phone and it will cost us all more to get one, I see no larger consequences than that.

    Just my opinion.

    In case you didn't know the crack is for GSM phones. Sprint is CDMA. Sprint's CDMA competitors aren't serious competitors in terms of data plans.
  11.    #91  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra
    I'm sure you'll delete this, but I felt you deserved to be warned, since you probably have no idea what you're getting yourselves into.

    I spoke to a contact at Palm today about the Treo 600 unlock issue and they actually were already aware of what was going on here. Apparently Handspring - and now Palm - have monitored Treocentral and know about the unlock hack. While it may seem all quite innocent fun and everyone is enjoying the excitement of having collectively managed to break the lock, this has major ramifications for Palm. (By the way, the unlock would have been VERY difficult to do without the benefit of Mol's crash and Handspring's own update. Palm could never have anticipated their files becoming exposed after a crash like that, but this excuse won't matter to the carriers...)

    As I'm sure you're fully aware, Handspring/Palm are very dependent upon the carriers and are pinning their hopes for survival on their PDA-phone lineup. Angering the carriers is the last thing they can afford to do. These phones are currently heavily subsidized by carriers and won't sell without the subsidy. The carriers expect to make their money back with data and voice charges, but this assumes everyone remains locked to the carrier long enough for this to happen. As soon as the carriers learn of the unlock, heads will roll at Palm. Treocentral will be targeted as long as they play a part in this. Discussing theory is one thing - allowing posts to unlocking files is an entirely different matter. (And don't expect the excuse that posters are fully responsible for their own actions will hold up.)

    I would strongly suggest you immediately do two things: State clearly at the top of every discussion area that posting hacks/cracks and links to them is not permitted; remove all such links now and ensure they aren't re-posted. Treocentral may just be a hobby site kept alive by a couple of people, but you are opening yourselves up for a world of hurt. Trust me. I won't say anything more about this, but it would be a shame to see you pay the price for your enthusiasm to "help out". You may be getting some bad news in a couple of weeks. At least try to make it look like you don't condone illegal activity.

    I wish you the best of luck.

    Well, since Treocentral has continued to allow links to the unlock crack to stay here, I assume they feel it is ok to distribute this. Looking back on similar issues, I remember Treocentral has typically turned a blind eye on other things that were of questionable legality, but consideder of great interest to Treo owners. I'll let others draw their own conclusions.

    I've tried to help, but you're on your own now. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.


    Adios, amigos.
  12. #92  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra


    <snip>

    ...I'll let others draw their own conclusions.

    <snip>
    That's just about the most intelligible statement you've made so far. I hope you really believe in that.
    .
  13. #93  
    Hey Goatsucker!

    Since you have clearly stated you don't own a treo and won't until Palm gets better, why don't you shove off.

    You are clearly far too smart to be hanging around with all the stupid people unlocking their phones and not caring if they get caught, and those of us who just want to learn more about what our phones are capable of. You are here simply to act superior and parade around in your pompous selfimportant manner.

    The nerve of a guy who thinks he can tell if someone has an MBA from a couple of stupid posts in a user forum.
    I doubt you have an MBA - unless they are now giving them away in boxes of Cheerios these days.....

    I don't work for Palm, as anyone with even a quarter of a brain would realize. I have tried to do certain individuals a favor by warning them that their actions may have serious repercussions.
    A favor is not telling people they are stupid. A favor is a gift and should be given in a positive manner, not as an attack. You must have been a fun kid. Kinda explains the goat thing.

    The only defensive individuals seem to be those brave tigers in this thread that have made juvenile attempts to explain why Palm and the carriers deserve to have had the phones unlocked. It's almost pointless trying to educate you as to why you're wrong.
    Where do you get off? Pricks like you are what make a fun discussion sour and unpleasant. If you are so damn smart and better than the rest of us, why aren't you out there solving the worlds problems instead of in here b*itching at the folks who want to be able to use their $600 investment on a better network? Why? Because you cant! You are so weak and ineffectual that all you can do is sit in your hole and type nasties at regular people.

    I have to believe there are goats somewhere that need sucking. Why don't you go find them. Stop by again when you have something useful to contribute. No one here needs to be saved, least of all by a guy who willingly goes by the name The Goatsucker.

    Oh and I fully expect you to tell me to STFU. I won't because I think it's highly unlikely that you will.


    Thanks folks. I'll be here all week.

    Woof
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #94  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra
    I've tried to help, but you're on your own now.

    Adios, amigos.
    Promise?
  15. #95  
    On our own???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO don't leave, its dark in here....please, Goatmilkextractorboy, come back....I'm frightened.

    Hey, what does this oval button with an envelope on my treo do...? HMMMMMMMM.

    What a pompous c*%k. I bet he is a vegetarian or a liberal or both.
  16. #96  
    If anyone who works in strategic planning for a carrier or phone manufacturer is reading this board, I would appreciate a response to the following question:

    Obersvations
    - Creating usable products that cannot be "hacked" has proved to be impossible over time (e.g., VHS Copy protection, DVD's, phone locks, etc.).
    - It is expensive and reduces consumer usability when you try (Linux users wanting to watch a DVD; music lovers wanting to pay $1 to download a song and listed to it in their car, Africans wants to use a Treo 600, etc.)

    Question
    - Wouldn't a better business model be to make the phone's retail price > or = to the cost of the phone then subsidize with contracts, rental agreements or loans?
    - Is the primary cocern enforcability of the contracts or creditworthiness of the clientel?

    Opinion
    Personally, I think it make more sense to make the plans cheaper, sell the phones at a retail price and offer a "loan" to the buyer for part to all of the phones purchase price.
    Example: A carrier (let's call them AT&TMobular) sells Treo 600 for $800 with the option of a $300 "rebate" loan. The customer (borrower) has $25 added to his phone bill each month to repay the loan. AT&TMobular monthly plans are all reduced by a comenserate amount.

    Benefits
    - More efficent used phone market that will allow poorer individuals to buy a used phone and attach it to a cheaper service plan (one that doesn't have an implicit subsidy cost). This may be bad for manufacturers, but not for carriers
    - Carriers would be in a better legal position to enforce termination fees if they were structured as a loan. Currently, if the carriers are deemed to have violated part of their agreement (implicit or explicit), someone could make a reasonable case that they don't have to pay the fee.
    - People could use any phone with any service of the same technology. This would help the phone manufacturers. For example, Handspring could generate revenue from Verizon customers.
    - The phone and service market could seperate. You could go to a phone store and buy any phone you want, then go on the web and get a SIM from the provider you wanted.

    My opinion on why it is not done:
    - Service providers want to increase switching cost. This is a natural desire by any business, but it is against public policy (anti-competitive). Switching Costs for those non-BSchool-types: by increase the cost to leave your service, someone will have to undercut your price by a very large amount to compete for your customer base. If all providers ensure their customers have high switching costs, the general competition levels of the market decrease and the profit maximizing point goes up (toward the monopolist level) and firms make more $. Expect where a monopoply is natural (e.g., it doesn't make sense to have two companies stringing electric wires to the same rural home), the US government policy is (or is supposed to be) to encourage competition (or, more exactly, to prevent impediments to fair competition). Anyone who gets sued over unlocking a phone, consider using the public policy argument in your defense.

    Fake reaons
    - Prevent theft - the carriers don't have a very strong reason to care, and, regardless, they know that the thiefs can break the codes. Plus if the thief doesn't change the ESN, there is still a way to track them.
    - "Quality Assurance" - this is such an obvious lie that it is not worth discussing. People can buy consumer reports, they have no reason to believe a Verizon salesman who says the Treo 600 is of bad quailty.
    - "Compatibility" - service providers can create a list of tested and supported phones, though these things work off generic standards -- I think this is a lie too.
  17. #97  
    Alright, that's it. Chapapapapa or who ever he is (goatmilkextractormonkeyboy) will definitely be back. That post above here is just too damn logical. This guy must actually be in the real world trying to run a business. How dare he share real world knowledge!!

    nice post, dbh1
  18.    #98  
    Originally posted by treorunner
    Alright, that's it. Chapapapapa or who ever he is (goatmilkextractormonkeyboy) will definitely be back. That post above here is just too damn logical. This guy must actually be in the real world trying to run a business. How dare he share real world knowledge!!

    nice post, dbh1
    You must be a very intelligent child.
  19. #99  
    HAAA! Knew you'd bite, oh great mighty winged goatblood sucking machine of wisdom!
  20.    #100  
    Originally posted by treorunner
    HAAA! Knew you'd bite, oh great mighty winged goatblood sucking machine of wisdom!

    Excuse me while I yawn.
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