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  1.    #1  
    I wanted to find out how many Treo 600 users are having trouble with the camera. The picture quality on my Sprint Treo 600 Rev. C is lacking to say the least. It's also plagued with the Blue Dot syndrome.

    Does anyone believe this will be remedied in the future? If Handspring is unable to release a substantial software/firmware upgrade sometime this year I plan to return it under warranty.

    Handspring warrants to you that at the date of purchase, the product is free of defects in workmanship and materials, and the software included in the product will perform in substantial compliance to its program specifications.
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  2. Luna's Avatar
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    #2  
    Last edited by Luna; 01/14/2004 at 05:00 PM.
    I've never owned a "regular" phone, and never will.

    Handspring Visorphone, Handspring Treo 180, Handspring Treo 600, PalmOne Treo 650....
  3. #3  
    Sorry folks, but no amount of lighting/distance/compression dabbling will change the fact that many of us have Treos with crappy cameras.

    Mine too has the dreaded blue dot syndrome. Even under a 100 watt halogen desk lamp, the pictures are riddled with blue dots.

    I too have a Rev C. The funny thing is my coworker and I bought our Treos on the very same day at the very same Sprint store. His Treo's camera works GREAT, even outdoors under an overcast Michigan sky. It's a Rev C as well.

    I sincerely hope that a firmware upgrade will correct the problem. the camera as it functions now is completely worthless.
  4. Luna's Avatar
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    #4  
    This is a picture that I took inside. The only thing that I did was resize it. It's a decent picture.
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    I've never owned a "regular" phone, and never will.

    Handspring Visorphone, Handspring Treo 180, Handspring Treo 600, PalmOne Treo 650....
  5. #5  
    I refrain from taking pictures with the Treo 600 camera because the picture quality is so poor. It would have been better for Handspring to not have the camera in the phone and have a reduced cost rather than provide such poor quality in the camera.
  6. #6  
    This one did not come out too bad. Flourescent lighting is dimmed above my desk. I installed the program? hack? that was listed in another thread and changed my compression to 90.
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  7. #7  
    Originally posted by lb505
    This one did not come out too bad. Flourescent lighting is dimmed above my desk. I installed the program? hack? that was listed in another thread and changed my compression to 90.

    mmmmmmmmmm..... lunch......
  8. #8  
    Seriously though... The camera is crap.

    I get blue dots almost everywhere... even in well lit situations.


    I am quite unhappy with it.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by lb505
    This one did not come out too bad. Flourescent lighting is dimmed above my desk. I installed the program? hack? that was listed in another thread and changed my compression to 90.
    Can you post the location of this program?/hack? or post it here?
  10. Luna's Avatar
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    #10  
    I drove to downtown LA to work on a server for the company I work for. I forgot my Digital Camera(I always bring it to take pictures of anything interesting that I see, since theres always something happening) at the office. I saw this and grew sad that I didn't have a camera to take a picture with.....

    "wait a minute!"

    Boom, I wip-out my Treo from my pocket(Im a firm believer that the Treo doesn't belong in a case) and take a picture!

    Not a bad picture for a camera that some people never want to use since it "sucks".
    I've never owned a "regular" phone, and never will.

    Handspring Visorphone, Handspring Treo 180, Handspring Treo 600, PalmOne Treo 650....
  11. Luna's Avatar
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    #11  
    ....
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    I've never owned a "regular" phone, and never will.

    Handspring Visorphone, Handspring Treo 180, Handspring Treo 600, PalmOne Treo 650....
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by elysian9


    Can you post the location of this program?/hack? or post it here?
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...0&pagenumber=1
  13. #13  
    I don't think changing the level of compression will do much to improve the results. I've looked at the min and max file sizes of all my VGA images, and the range is 11 - 85 KB. The images I consider better tend to be lower in file size. To say that it is better to use simpler backgrounds and avoid excess detail in an image is an aesthetic choice, but here the numbers show the benefit in a technical way.

    Look at the size of the lens. If it were any smaller the Treocam would be an electronic pinhole camera. I think it would take a physically larger lens to allow shooting consistently in low light situations. (Maybe someone could tell me how this compares to the lenses of other phonecams.) But, once you use a larger lens, then you'll need a mechanism for doing the autofocus thing. I don't doubt that they will come out with "better" cameras for phones. However, I can't be convinced that its just a matter of adding megapixels or improved software.

    The February issue of Smart Money highlights "five of the best camera phones on the market." They list the SE T616, Nokia 3660, Samsung A600, Samsung VGA 1000 and LG VX6000. It's curious that THEY don't publish any of the pictures THEY took with these cameras. The author refers to one phonecam of one of OUR favorites. In the end, is this all a committee decision on what you should buy? Now should I return my Treo and buy one of these?
    <a href="http://billkosloskymd.typepad.com/wirelessdoc/">Wireless Doc the blog</a>
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by wireless-doc
    The February issue of Smart Money highlights "five of the best camera phones on the market." They list the SE T616, Nokia 3660, Samsung A600, Samsung VGA 1000 and LG VX6000. It's curious that THEY don't publish any of the pictures THEY took with these cameras. The author refers to one phonecam of one of OUR favorites. In the end, is this all a committee decision on what you should buy? Now should I return my Treo and buy one of these?
    I don't know, should you? I think it all depends on what you want. I didn't buy the Treo to be a camera. I have (a couple) of digital cameras for that. But I've still snapped a few pics here and there just because I had it. My thinking is that if image quality is what's important, you should probably buy a pocket size digital camera instead of using your phone to take pictures. Even the poorest quality Canon, Nikon, HP, Panasonic, etc. digicam will take better pictures than the best camera phone available today.

    But if the photo quality of a phone is more important to you than the integration offered by the Treo, then by all means choose something different. For me, the benefits of the Treo far outweigh the limitations of the camera.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  15. #15  
    I'll admit, I'm a lousy photographer, even with a good camera, but I think the problem we're seeing with the Treo is common to all small phone/PDA cameras. This first picture was taken in May with my old Zire 71, also a VGA camera.
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  16. #16  
    This one was taken with my new Treo 600. Twins separated at birth?
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  17. #17  
    Originally posted by meyerweb
    For me, the benefits of the Treo far outweigh the limitations of the camera.
    I basically agree. We are in the infancy of the development of converged devices (and I don't mean convergence in the sense that Bill Gates used the term in his recent speech, i.e. the handheld becomes a mini-PC). I always return to that William Gibson quote, "The street finds its own uses for technology." Phonecam photography is new and different, and in most respects different from even digital photography. By buying into the technology literally, you have the chance to look for new uses or new ways of thinking about digital information. We can challenge longstanding assumptions about photography or even return to its roots. I hope that palmOne is listening to the options and the wishes discussed in this forum.
    <a href="http://billkosloskymd.typepad.com/wirelessdoc/">Wireless Doc the blog</a>
  18. #18  
    agreed. palmone might use this forum as a spring of new ideas from those who are most enthusiastic about the treo.

    build on what is offered here to produce a product which is a cut above the rest.

    i`d think they are well aware of this site by now, and for sure drop in now and again for a quick glance at what their market "niche" is most recently asking for
  19. #19  
    wireless-doc wrote:I don't think changing the level of compression will do much to improve the results. I've looked at the min and max file sizes of all my VGA images, and the range is 11 - 85 KB. The images I consider better tend to be lower in file size. To say that it is better to use simpler backgrounds and avoid excess detail in an image is an aesthetic choice, but here the numbers show the benefit in a technical way.

    This seems to be the exception that proves the rule. It's easier to compress images with less detail because the algorithms translate contiguous blocks of identical pixels as discrete objects. Taking a picture of a plain white wall will result in a smaller file size than taking a picutre of a forest.

    A simple experiment will demonstrate why I insist the Treo 600's poor image quality is primarily a software problem: take a picture and look at the image as the Treo saves the file; then look at the image once it's saved. The loss of detail is astounding.

    On a different note, regarding the Blue Dot problem, there is a way to work around this with some technique and practice. I posted these instructions on this SprintUsers thread (with pictures demonstrating the results) over a month ago, but it's worth plagiarising myself here:

    I get the same blue noise that we're all getting in low-light settings. The trick is to take the picture before the noise emerges.

    Easier said than done, but doable. You'll notice that when you first turn the camera on the image on the screen goes from too dark to too light in the space of a few seconds. That is, it goes from underexposed to overexposed, where the image washes out and you get the infamous blue noise. But there's a midpoint, a sweet spot, where the image is exposed just right. That's when to snap the picture. Instead, most of us watch the image get worse on the screen; and after the exposure's peak we rightly decide there's no point in taking the picture.

    While it's impractical to keep turning the phone off and on just to reset the exposure, there's a somewhat easier way that gets even easier with practice:

    (1) Compose (frame) the picture on the screen in capture mode as you normally would. The image will gradually overexpose, as mentioned above. Don't worry about it.

    (2) Without moving the camera (to hold the composition), highlight the picture view mode with the 5-way and select it.

    (3) Now go back to capture mode, i.e. highlight the camera icon with the 5-way and select it. What you've just done is quickly exit and re-enter capture mode to re-initialize the exposure.

    (4) This is where you have to look sharp: watch as the incoming light increases, and the moment you've got just the right amount of light, take the picture. If you wait longer, you'll see the blue noise emerge. If this happens, repeat steps (2) and (3).
  20. #20  
    Hi everybody,

    This isn't related to the blue dots problem, but it still has to do with the camera so I thought you guys might be able to help me out.

    One of the things I think the camera on the Treo 600 would be handiest for is snapping quick copies of text, notes, articles, presentations, white-boards in class, things like that.

    Since I don't have the 600 yet, (T-Mobile, take your time. We don't mind...) I'd like trouble someone to try that out, snap a picture or two of some text, and maybe figure out what the minimum focal length of the camera is too. (It might be in the manual)

    I really do think that would be very handy. One more convenience to tack on to an already great device.

    Of course, I'm buying one either way... and I could figure it out when I get it, it's just impatience. I'm sure you guys can relate.

    Thanks!!!
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