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  1. #41  
    not just HS alone either. you have to see the perspective of the carriers too. no way sprint is gonna allow unlimted data with a BT equipped phone. so if you had the treo 600 with bt it wouldn't be with unlimited data...i just got 3 mb with my new sony BT phone.

    i am happy with my treo as is. i just wish it had a replaceable battery, more software was compatible with its 5-way button, and that it had 64 mb instead of 32 built in...
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    My point is that HS views the 600 as a standalone device (and I have to agree), and that MOST 600 users don't need/want to use the 600 as just a laptop modem access device.
    Yes, I agree the Treo is a wonderful standalone device, especially since I'm from the school of thought that a handheld isn't really meant to duplicate all the functions of a laptop or desktop--just enough of them that the bulkier devices can be left at home or the office.

    If it weren't for the very high liklihood that HS made some very unfortunate engineering decisions that may have permanently shut the door on Wi-Fi as an add-on, the T600 would be the only device I'd ever need. However, I'm interested in BT as a means to provide data connectivity "on the street" for a better PDA that includes integrated Wi-Fi, which will mean data connectivity in the (few) parts of my current hospital where Sprint's signal doesn't reach. And in six months, I will ABSOLUTELY have to have Wi-Fi, as the hospital where I'll be starting work doesn't permit access to patient records from external sites (like the Vision network).

    In short, for those of us who want/need Wi-Fi, especially in furtherance of our ability to do our jobs, it's not the lack of BT server ability that does the "standalone" T600 in, it's the lack of Wi-Fi client capability.
  3. #43  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    I'll agree with the last post and toss in an opinion as to Handspring's likely thoughts regarding BT.
    For everyone who still can't believe that HS left off BT, here's what I'm thinking. Since so many (and fixup is included) view BT as the pathway to allowing their phone to enable their laptop access to carrier's high-speed internet service, I think that HS did NOT view that as a major user need for the Treo. My point is that HS views the 600 as a standalone device (and I have to agree), and that MOST 600 users don't need/want to use the 600 as just a laptop modem access device. I mean after all, I use my 600 to REPLACE my laptop when I'm out of the office. The LAST thing I want to do is lug along a PC. My goal with the 600 is to lighten my load and use ONLY the 600 for my email, internet, IM, phone, books, games, etc - it does all that so I don't NEED my PC and don't NEED a BT connection for that PC. I would bet that was what HS was thinking when they decided 'no BT'. I have no perceived use or need for BT in the way I use the device. maybe I've just drunk all the Handspring kool-aid....
    Very well put nrosser! However, my number one desire for BT is not to connect my computer. Rather I want to to use it via various BT headsets and especially BT car kits. In fact the latter is extremely important as BT is now considered the defacto interface for automatove telemetrics! It's an industry that is booming and PalmOne would be wise to make sure the Treo in the future will be compatible.

    Also, I gather the main reason people here are advocating a 2 piece solution is b/c they don't want to sacrifice any perceived pda functionality in a convergence solution. Thus most people who want 2 piece solution are probably pretty hard core pda users. IMO, Palmone could easily resolve this by integrating BT, high rez screen, wifi compatibilty, GPS, etc into the next Treo. The problem is, of course, how expensive would such a device cost and would it be market viable product? In fact that's the probelm with devices like the XDAII, Samsung M400 etc. These convergence devices right now are just way too expensive for the average consumer and will always occupy a certain high end niche which is opposite to what I believe PalmOne wants to achieve with the Treo. In fact David Nagel of PalmSource has stated many times he wants to see lisencees develop a smartphone device at or below the $200 price point which many consider the optimal range. I think we'll eventually get to the point where people won't feel like they're sacrificing any features by going with a Treo, but it probably will take some time before component costs become inexpensive enough to allow this.
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
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  4. #44  
    Originally posted by Facci
    My 2 cents:
    Let me get this correct, if the main purpose of not getting a $400 Treo 600 (that seems to do most everything pretty well) and purchasing a $200 phone(with BT) + $400 PDA is to surf the net on a high res screen and get email? BT is cool but, to carry around 2 devices just so that I can surf the internet? I carried the 2 devices around for a while, it was a pain in the a$$, especially for men. If you want to carry around 2 devices because that is what you like, than, more power to you. I love my T600, it does everything I need it to do plus some. Yes, it's missing some features that I would really like. If I want to surf the net on a high res screen, I go home where I have a 19" flat panel monitor and high speed broadband and surf there. I think some people need to get a life.

    I think you're missing the point and like so many people here have difficulty understanding usage patterns other than your own. Try not to be defensive - I'm not saying the Treo 600 is a bad convergence device or you're making a big mistake using it.

    By definition, a convergence device is a compromise. It will always be less simple/able/compact/reliable/etc. than each single device it replaces.

    As a phone, I find the Treo 600 to be somewhat lacking, but if you don't have a problem with it, good for you. But try to understand that others may feel its voice quality/reception/speakerphone/features/etc. to be less than ideal. Most would not dispute that there are several other "regular" phones available that make better phones.
    By the same token, a stand alone PDA means more features, bigger screen and better resolution. Again, if you find the PDA part of the Treo 600 to be perfect for your usage pattern, great.
    The advantages of a separate Bluetooth phone + PDA package are not simply improved ability to "surf the net on a high res screen and get email". You can use Bluetooth for laptop wireless when travelling, handsfree calling when driving and wireless headsets. You can decide to carry just a small cell phone if you won't need the PDA in a given situation. You can upgrade either phone or PDA at will, at lower cost. If either the phone or the PDA dies, you haven't lost all. You are less at the mercy of a single manufacturer (as those begging for SD WiFi and Bluetooth cards can understand).

    The Treo 600 is the first convergence device that does most things well without forcing users to make major compromises in one way or another. Add Bluetooth, better screen, 802.11b, better phone components/features, more memory; decrease size + weight, remove external antenna, etc. and it will be even better. But it will still be a convergence device with all the compromises these entail.
  5. #45  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra


    By definition, a convergence device is a compromise. It will always be less simple/able/compact/reliable/etc. than each single device it replaces.
    How do you figure that? I don't think there's any such absolute at all. In fact there are a few devices like the Wanda, M400, LG SC8000 and even the Samsung SGH-i500 that come pretty close IMO w/o compromising that much at all. (If the SC8000 had a thumbaord, I think it would have been my next device!...but I digress) Basically, I don't think you can pigeon-hole or label an entire segment with such generalities when technolgy and innovation is moving so fast. Just b/c you may have to compromise today, doesn't mean you'll have to compromise in the future...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  6.    #46  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra

    As a phone, I find the Treo 600 to be somewhat lacking,
    I think treo 600 is a very good phone, even the Treo 300 and that's why I bought the 300 after tried all the other phones that got no signal in my office.

    By the same token, a stand alone PDA means more features, bigger screen and better resolution.
    I think Treo 600 is a very good PDA, mainly for its one-hand design and keyboard. Treo 600 does most of my job, but I still need a larger screen for remote desktop client. If treo has BT, then it's perfect.


    The advantages of a separate Bluetooth phone + PDA package are not simply improved ability to "surf the net on a high res screen and get email". You can use Bluetooth for laptop wireless when travelling, handsfree calling when driving and wireless headsets. You can decide to carry just a small cell phone if you won't need the PDA in a given situation. You can upgrade either phone or PDA at will, at lower cost. If either the phone or the PDA dies, you haven't lost all. You are less at the mercy of a single manufacturer (as those begging for SD WiFi and Bluetooth cards can understand).
    Well said! Especially the last sentence, that's why, whenever possible, I stay away from Palm, HS, Apple alike properiotary companies - they make good stuff, but you hang on their mercy.

    In most time, I only need to belt my T608 on my hip; when I needed, I put my Nexio PAD in my pocket and I'll have a 800x480 PDA with me without having to carry a bag. With Treo w/o BT, there is no way to enjoy the Nexio.

    The Treo 600 is the first convergence device that does most things well without forcing users to make major compromises in one way or another.
    Yes, that's right and it was even wise for HS to drop BT in Treo 600. But for people like me right now and for others in the future, BT is a must. HS knows that and that's why they keep saying "with a SDIO you can add an BT card etc...." even they know there is no such a card anywhere.

    Add Bluetooth, better screen, 802.11b, better phone components/features, more memory; decrease size + weight, remove external antenna, etc. and it will be even better.
    I dont desire that much. I just want BT.

    I posted this thread not to trashing Treo 600, but to let people (those like me) know now there is one more option when the T608 is finally out. I personally prefer T608 becuase its BT gives far more flexibility than a fixed one device. If Treo 600 had BT, no need to bother with T608.
  7. #47  
    By definition, a convergence device is a compromise. It will always be less simple/able/compact/reliable/etc. than each single device it replaces.


    Originally posted by gfunkmagic


    How do you figure that? I don't think there's any such absolute at all. In fact there are a few devices like the Wanda, M400, LG SC8000 and even the Samsung SGH-i500 that come pretty close IMO w/o compromising that much at all. (If the SC8000 had a thumbaord, I think it would have been my next device!...but I digress) Basically, I don't think you can pigeon-hole or label an entire segment with such generalities when technolgy and innovation is moving so fast. Just b/c you may have to compromise today, doesn't mean you'll have to compromise in the future...

    I would think my statement was fairly self-evident. Convergence devices are a constant juggling act between cost, size and features. The more features you add, the larger the size and/or the greater the cost. At some point manufacturers of convergence devices have to limit features so they don't price themselves out of their market. As an example, many people have complained that the Treo 600 lacks hi res screen, Bluetooth, memory, removeable battery and a good camera (just to name a few items). How much do you think it would cost to add all of those features? And how much bigger would theTreo 600 be with them? How bad would battery life be? Then compare this to the experience you will have by choosing separate cell phone, camera, PDA, etc. Good single function devices should always do their function better/cheaper/more reliably/with less space than a convergence device. The advantages of the convergence device lie mainly in integration, convenience and overall size vs. the separates.

    You will always have to compromise when using a convergence device. But in the future, those compromises will probably become less and less intrusive.
  8. #48  
    Originally posted by Fixup
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra

    As a phone, I find the Treo 600 to be somewhat lacking,
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I think treo 600 is a very good phone, even the Treo 300 and that's why I bought the 300 after tried all the other phones that got no signal in my office.


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By the same token, a stand alone PDA means more features, bigger screen and better resolution.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I think Treo 600 is a very good PDA, mainly for its one-hand design and keyboard. Treo 600 does most of my job, but I still need a larger screen for remote desktop client. If treo has BT, then it's perfect.

    ***************************************************


    You're being somewhat selective in your quoting. I had originally said:
    "As a phone, I find the Treo 600 to be somewhat lacking, but if you don't have a problem with it, good for you. But try to understand that others may feel its voice quality/reception/speakerphone/features/etc. to be less than ideal. Most would not dispute that there are several other "regular" phones available that make better phones.
    By the same token, a stand alone PDA means more features, bigger screen and better resolution. Again, if you find the PDA part of the Treo 600 to be perfect for your usage pattern, great."

    While you and many others may be satisfied with the Treo 600 as is, many others need or want better specs and more flexibility from their hardware. As impressive as the Treo 600 is, I wouldn't think twice about switching back to separates if someone was to put out the perfect Bluetooth PalmOS PDA. (I'm betting the followup to the Sony CLIE UX-50 will be it.) I've ordered a couple Sony Ericsson T608 in case it takes a while for another Bluetooth phone to be released. (I wouldn't be surprised to see these things selling for $500 or more by Spring...)
  9.    #49  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    I'll agree with the last post and toss in an opinion as to Handspring's likely thoughts regarding BT.
    For everyone who still can't believe that HS left off BT, here's what I'm thinking. Since so many (and fixup is included) view BT as the pathway to allowing their phone to enable their laptop access to carrier's high-speed internet service, I think that HS did NOT view that as a major user need for the Treo. My point is that HS views the 600 as a standalone device (and I have to agree), and that MOST 600 users don't need/want to use the 600 as just a laptop modem access device. I mean after all, I use my 600 to REPLACE my laptop when I'm out of the office. The LAST thing I want to do is lug along a PC. My goal with the 600 is to lighten my load and use ONLY the 600 for my email, internet, IM, phone, books, games, etc - it does all that so I don't NEED my PC and don't NEED a BT connection for that PC. I would bet that was what HS was thinking when they decided 'no BT'. I have no perceived use or need for BT in the way I use the device. maybe I've just drunk all the Handspring kool-aid....
    Not good reasoning. Dont tell me you'll leave your laptop home on a business trip, on vacation, to a conference...

    Did you know that BT circuitry is already in Treo 600? HS wanted BT hard, they just did not have more time because they were in short of cash (so they were sold to PalmOne). They must sell Treo 600 as soon as possible, even before all the carriers approved it. They knew BT was a big thing, but they thought a BT card would show up soon. However, PalmOne screwed them up on that by not providing an OS5 driver, not even allowing a card from third party (SanDisk).
  10. #50  
    quote:

    Not good reasoning. Dont tell me you'll leave your laptop home on a business trip, on vacation, to a conference...


    It is, and I do. That's why I have the 600, so that I can leave the laptop behind. Thus, I don't need BT for laptop connectivity. You may need BT, for what you do, but I don't need BT for what I do.

    I ALSO maintain my belief that Handspring didn't include BT since many folks look at BT as a way to connect their phone with their handheld, which most 600 owners don't need to do, given that the 600 combines both devices into one elegant design.

    All I'm saying is that your comments about HS leaving out BT are probably misunderstanding what the folks at HS were thinking - again, that most 600 users wouldn't need BT for its most-common uses (PDA connectivity and laptop connectivity - yes, I know there are many other uses for BT, but you get what I'm saying).
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by Fixup


    Not good reasoning. Dont tell me you'll leave your laptop home on a business trip, on vacation, to a conference...

    Did you know that BT circuitry is already in Treo 600? HS wanted BT hard, they just did not have more time because they were in short of cash (so they were sold to PalmOne). They must sell Treo 600 as soon as possible, even before all the carriers approved it. They knew BT was a big thing, but they thought a BT card would show up soon. However, PalmOne screwed them up on that by not providing an OS5 driver, not even allowing a card from third party (SanDisk).

    Interesting theory. But I think Sprint's concerns about abuse of their data network by Bluetooth-enabled users is the real reason Handspring held off on this feature.
  12.    #52  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    Interesting theory. But I think Sprint's concerns about abuse of their data network by Bluetooth-enabled users is the real reason Handspring held off on this feature.
    No, not because of Spint, I thought that way too. HatOnCat, who's the site ownner of sprintpcsinfo.com, said it was SE who pulled out the T608 because they (stupidly) thought no large market for CDMA phones.

    Someone emailed me for how to transfer data from Treo to T608. please go to http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com forum to find out.
  13. #53  
    I think Chupacabra has it right. Remember, Sprint is marketing their $80/month PC card service for people who want unlimited data on a laptop. They don't want to make it easy for people to get the same benefit from a $10 or $15 a month Vision plan. I wouldn't be surprised if they strongly discouraged HS from putting built-in BT on the T600.
  14. #54  
    Originally posted by Fixup


    No, not because of Spint, I thought that way too. HatOnCat, who's the site ownner of sprintpcsinfo.com, said it was SE who pulled out the T608 because they (stupidly) thought no large market for CDMA phones.

    Someone emailed me for how to transfer data from Treo to T608. please go to http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com forum to find out.
    I'm quite familiar with the T608 and actually oedered a couple when they were released a few days ago. If Sprint wanted a Bluetooth phone, they would have brought one out a long time ago. (The T608 has been ready for a while and is only being released to satisfy the demands of some angry Sprint business customers.) I've posted a number of messages about the T608 in these threads:

    Sprint fears Bluetooth


    Rants, flames and facts. (Guess who's telling the truth?)
  15. #55  
    I'm also curious how the two device adopters here turn out. For myself, I'm looking at three options:

    1) Sprint T600
    2) GSM (tmo) T600
    3) Sony PEG-UX50 + SE T616

    For my money, the T608 is not an option simply because of the data limit. That's a deal-breaker.

    As for carrying two devices, I don't have a big problem with that. I've carried a Verizon Motorola phone and a Handspring Prism together for years. I have the handspring portfolio case for the prism that doubles as my wallet, so the actual carrying is no trouble.

    Problem 1) I have a tendency to leave that wallet/portfolio case whereever I set it :-) I carry very little cash, and the prism can be replaced fairly cheaply. But, it would make for a bad day to leave wallet + ux50 somewhere!

    Problem 2) Batteries. The UX50 battery life is bad (3 hrs or so with wifi and/or bluetooth usage). The SE T616 isn't much better at 3 hrs talk time, less if using blue tooth. I can imagine many a situation in which one would have sufficient charge and the other wouldn't and I'd be SOL. Both of my devices now fare significantly better than that on battery, so again, just beause I can't carry the devices doesn't mean it's a good solution.

    Problem 3) Screen brightness. Neither the UX50 nor the T608/616 have as bright a screen as the T600. If you check the reviews, both are somewhat difficult to use in the daylight (the ux50 more so than the 616).

    On the upside, I can REALLY see a use for the wifi on the UX50. At home, office, airports, I'd love to have wifi instead of data access through my carrier. This isn't a deal breaker though (but damn close!)

    As for bluetooth, I really don't get all the hubub on this forum about lack of BT on the T600. Most people are upset they can't use their laptops with it. Well, if you're going to be carrying a laptop, what's so hard about carrying one extra cable for a data connection through your t600? I suppose theoretically you could use another mobile device with a better browser (like the ux50) and use bluetooth thru it, but that seems like overkill to me. IMHO, bluetooth would be nice, but given that you have a converged unit with data and phone capability already, the major need for bluetooth has been eliminated. (yeah, I know, many of you disagree)

    So that's my thoughts on the two devices (as proposed here) vs. one (t600). If any of you early adopters of the two device solution care to refute or acknowledge the problems listed above, I'd love to hear it :-)

    Jeff
  16.    #56  
    Jeff,
    If your selection is limited to Palm devices only, Treo 600 seems the best for you. If you are open to other devices, then dont waste your money on the Sony UX-50 and you'll be way better off with a Nexio S160 or iPaq 4350. The 4350 has a decent keyboard (UX50's keyboad is a joke), beautiful screen and the longest batt life I've seen so far, w/ wifi and bt on. The S160 has a 800x480 screen, WiFi, CF slot (you can add BT), keyboard. It is just slightly larger and heavier than 4350 and it slides into your pocket easily. S160 is the main reason for me to want two devices.

    As for cable and laptop, yes it is not a hassle to carry a cable while you must carry a laptop. However, if you ever used laptop in bed, in the back seat of a car, in an airport... you'll know how hassle a tethered modem is. Also, I can put a BT phone in any position to get the best reception.

    BTW, T610 has a 14-hour talk time.

    An integrate device like Treo has its own beauty. The beauty of two device is you are not limited by any means. I belt my T608 or 610 on my hip all the time. I use a Treo 90 w/BT SD card most of the time for email and web; they are deadly cheap and decent battery life. When I need a PPC, I take 4350 with me. When I need remote desktop and/or full width web, I take out my S160. If I go to a conference for presentation, I take my laptop. All go online without a single wire.

    Xin
    Last edited by Fixup; 12/30/2003 at 02:30 PM.
  17.    #57  
    After all this, I want to say clearly: I'm not pushing 2 device solution, just the Treo 600 should have had BT. Once it has BT, all the argues and alternative solutions are history. For those who dont care about BT, Treo is already all human ever wanted.
  18. #58  
    Originally posted by Fixup
    For those who dont care about BT, Treo is already all human ever wanted.
    No, it's not. (But it is an AWESOME little convergence device!) I want--no, NEED--Wi-Fi for places at work where I don't get a Sprint signal or need a trusted connection. I only care about BT, in a phone such as T608, as a means to an end--providing a BT and Wi-Fi enabled PDA with data connectivity "on the street."
  19. #59  
    Hello all...It's been a while since I've been active over here. I think this thread demonstrates that everyone has different wants/needs. Some don't care about BT, some want it just for headset usage, some want it for hooking up a better PDA or laptop. Here's what I want in a mobile device...

    I want to be able to check out my usual web sites and post to forums remotely. It would be great if I could view normal web sites, and not just the mobile kind, but no mobile device has enough resolution for that and even Sprint's "fast" data network is too slow to make this enjoyable. So, I guess I can live with accessing mobile sites. For me to do emails or post to forums enjoyably, though, I need a comfortable keyboard. The Treo 300 didn't cut it. The Treo 600's is even worse. I recently got an iPaq h4155 and bought a snap-on thumbboard. Pretty nice design but it's only marginally bigger than my Treo 300's, so it's still no good (and the h4350's is pretty much identical). For a convergence device, what I want is something like the Danger Hiptop. I think I could happily post and email with that thumbboard. But, alas, reception for this device is supposedly poor (which is compounded by the fact that T-Mobile coverage is poor in general in my area), there's no Outlook sync still, and the device is rather antiquated in terms of using it for MP3's or more advanced stuff.

    So where am I now? Well, now I'm thinking of trying out a foldable full-size keyboard. I got the T608 and got it working with both my iPaq h4155 and Tapwave Zodiac. Had some lockups here and there, so that worries me. Also can't seem to be able to dial contacts from the h4155 using Bluetooth. I also still can't get a Sprint signal inside my house reliably (same as my Treo 300), but it does offer digital and analog roaming and I can pick up a very usable Verizon signal in my house. If I get to keep the unlimited Vision, I'd like to keep it, but the latest rumblings are that they're going to try to take that away from us in a couple of months. I wish I could get a definite answer on this, because that's the bottom line for me.

    Another idea I have is to go with the Treo 600 and pair it with a foldable keyboard. The built-in keyboard will be good enough for pulling up contacts for dialing, but I know that I won't be happy with it for even brief emailing or commenting on forums. I hate the thought of going back to low-res 160x160, but I don't have any other good options available that I can think of. I'm pretty sure I need to stick with Sprint or Verizon in order to have a usable signal and a decent data plan (w/Verizon you can use your voice minutes for data usage on their high-speed network which is better and more manageable than trying to keep track of KB's used). The other reason for ditching the T608 is because I seem to have more dropped connections than I did with my Treo 300. An added frustration here is that you end up having to look at the phone's screen (which defeats the advantage of BT where you can have your phone stowed away in your pocket).

    Also, while I abhor the PPC from an overall usability perspective, I've found that browsing is faster and better on my h4155 than with my Zodiac.

    Lots of rambling thoughts here. Sorry.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  20. #60  
    Since you have good Verizon Signal, why don't you try one of the following Smartphones:

    Kyocera 7135
    Samsung i700 (PocketPC Phone Edition)

    or the much more limited Samsung i600.

    These should do well for you...

    Originally posted by Scott R
    Hello all...It's been a while since I've been active over here. I think this thread demonstrates that everyone has different wants/needs. Some don't care about BT, some want it just for headset usage, some want it for hooking up a better PDA or laptop. Here's what I want in a mobile device...

    I want to be able to check out my usual web sites and post to forums remotely. It would be great if I could view normal web sites, and not just the mobile kind, but no mobile device has enough resolution for that and even Sprint's "fast" data network is too slow to make this enjoyable. So, I guess I can live with accessing mobile sites. For me to do emails or post to forums enjoyably, though, I need a comfortable keyboard. The Treo 300 didn't cut it. The Treo 600's is even worse. I recently got an iPaq h4155 and bought a snap-on thumbboard. Pretty nice design but it's only marginally bigger than my Treo 300's, so it's still no good (and the h4350's is pretty much identical). For a convergence device, what I want is something like the Danger Hiptop. I think I could happily post and email with that thumbboard. But, alas, reception for this device is supposedly poor (which is compounded by the fact that T-Mobile coverage is poor in general in my area), there's no Outlook sync still, and the device is rather antiquated in terms of using it for MP3's or more advanced stuff.

    So where am I now? Well, now I'm thinking of trying out a foldable full-size keyboard. I got the T608 and got it working with both my iPaq h4155 and Tapwave Zodiac. Had some lockups here and there, so that worries me. Also can't seem to be able to dial contacts from the h4155 using Bluetooth. I also still can't get a Sprint signal inside my house reliably (same as my Treo 300), but it does offer digital and analog roaming and I can pick up a very usable Verizon signal in my house. If I get to keep the unlimited Vision, I'd like to keep it, but the latest rumblings are that they're going to try to take that away from us in a couple of months. I wish I could get a definite answer on this, because that's the bottom line for me.

    Another idea I have is to go with the Treo 600 and pair it with a foldable keyboard. The built-in keyboard will be good enough for pulling up contacts for dialing, but I know that I won't be happy with it for even brief emailing or commenting on forums. I hate the thought of going back to low-res 160x160, but I don't have any other good options available that I can think of. I'm pretty sure I need to stick with Sprint or Verizon in order to have a usable signal and a decent data plan (w/Verizon you can use your voice minutes for data usage on their high-speed network which is better and more manageable than trying to keep track of KB's used). The other reason for ditching the T608 is because I seem to have more dropped connections than I did with my Treo 300. An added frustration here is that you end up having to look at the phone's screen (which defeats the advantage of BT where you can have your phone stowed away in your pocket).

    Also, while I abhor the PPC from an overall usability perspective, I've found that browsing is faster and better on my h4155 than with my Zodiac.

    Lots of rambling thoughts here. Sorry.

    Scott
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