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  1.    #1  
    I got my new issue of Fast Company magazine yesterday and inside there is a nice "actual size" cut-out of the silver GSM Treo 600. On the back it says, "Make a smart move and get your Treo 600 today".

    In today's edition of CNN.com I couldn't miss the Treo 600 on the front page linking to a CNN.com special on "The wild world of Wi-Fi".

    I wonder how the average consumer will ever find out that: (a) Treo is NOT available and you can't get one so easily, and (b) There's no Wi-Fi option as of today for the Treo.
  2. #2  
    at least the ad makes it clear that is a phond and a palm and email and internet. should help sales.
  3. #3  
    Originally posted by gekz
    I got my new issue of Fast Company magazine yesterday and inside there is a nice "actual size" cut-out of the silver GSM Treo 600. On the back it says, "Make a smart move and get your Treo 600 today".

    In today's edition of CNN.com I couldn't miss the Treo 600 on the front page linking to a CNN.com special on "The wild world of Wi-Fi".

    I wonder how the average consumer will ever find out that: (a) Treo is NOT available and you can't get one so easily, and (b) There's no Wi-Fi option as of today for the Treo.
    Seems to me that it is fully consistent with the dishonest approach that has epitomized the rollout of the Treo 600.

    HS has behaved in a way that has consistently misled customers, frozen purchase decisions.

    They are simply awful people regardless how much you like their product.
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Seems to me that it is fully consistent with the dishonest approach that has epitomized the rollout of the Treo 600.

    HS has behaved in a way that has consistently misled customers, frozen purchase decisions.

    They are simply awful people regardless how much you like their product.
    First that is a CNN report, not Handspring, so complain about Time Warner, not Palm. Second, could you provide any evidence of dishonesty? I've been quite happy with the rollout!
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    #5  
    wanna hear something really whacked?! I've been lusting after the 600 since before it was announced. I've been waiting on the T-Mo version, which now looks like vaporware. I've talked about the dang thing so much that my roomate got interested and orderd one on the 8th and had it on the 10th. This with all the gripes on the boards here about how long it's taking to get it. I ordered the ATT version on the 15th and should get it next week according to the HS site. It just ticks me off after wanting one so long, he decides on a whim to get one and has it in three days...
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by gekz
    I got my new issue of Fast Company magazine yesterday and inside there is a nice "actual size" cut-out of the silver GSM Treo 600. On the back it says, "Make a smart move and get your Treo 600 today".

    In today's edition of CNN.com I couldn't miss the Treo 600 on the front page linking to a CNN.com special on "The wild world of Wi-Fi".

    I wonder how the average consumer will ever find out that: (a) Treo is NOT available and you can't get one so easily, and (b) There's no Wi-Fi option as of today for the Treo.
    You SURE that CNN piece was an ad and not an editorial in which CNN got it wrong? Sounds that way to me so you can't blame HS or Palm.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Seems to me that it is fully consistent with the dishonest approach that has epitomized the rollout of the Treo 600.

    HS has behaved in a way that has consistently misled customers, frozen purchase decisions.

    They are simply awful people regardless how much you like their product.
    What a bunch of bull.

    Handspring has been an innovator, taking Palm products forward, ever since the company's creation. Their accomplishments and successful sales, and excellent customer support, despite being an under-financed company from the start, is a testament to their excellence. If they were the type of company this writer claims, Palm would have let Handspring wither and die rather than taking them back into the fold.

    It seems like Trolling is a hobby for some who suffer from a perceived lack of attention in their lives.
  8. #8  
    http://slate.msn.com/id/2092842/

    Requiem for a Machine
    The season's hot gadget proves that PDAs are obsolete.


    By Paul Boutin
    Posted Thursday, Dec. 18, 2003, at 10:59 AM PT

    Everything but the kitchen sink
    If you're still looking for the hot geek gift for Christmas, Handspring's Treo 600 is the season's uncontested fad gadget. It's not cheap: You'll probably pay $500 or $600 for one. Even Amazon's price of $249 (after rebates) may be more than you want to spring. But if you don't give that someone special a Treo, don't make the mistake of embarrassing them with a PDA instead. Because the great thing about the Treo 600 is that it's made the PDA obsolete. For the first time, Handspring has proved it's possible to pack a computer into a phone without screwing up both.

    That's the secret of the Treo 600: It's not a PDA, or even a combination PDA/cell phone. It's a phone, pure and simple. (Service is available from at least four companies: AT&T, Cingular, Sprint, and soon T-Mobile.) To be clear, this is a phone that contains everything you used to buy a PDA for: Palm operating system, a QWERTY keyboard, a bright color screen, digital camera, Web browser, video and MP3 players, instant messaging, desktop-sync software, and more. But the important thing is that it has the form of a phone, not just the function. If you saw one lying on a desk, you'd immediately know what it was. Could you say that the first time you saw a PalmPilot?

    The Treo marks the end of the era of oversized PDAs and hybrid hand-helds that just happen to make calls, presuming you were willing to hold them awkwardly to your head or to walk around wearing a headset. The signs have been obvious, for those willing to see them: Walk through midtown Manhattan, and you see phone stores on every block, not PDA stores. Handspring has acceded to popular demand, and it's now the first PDA company to reinvent itself as a phone-maker.

    With the Treo, Handspring chucked the traditional stylus interface for Palms. Instead, the Treo is designed to be operated phone-style with one hand while working, walking, or (please don't do this) driving. A rocker switch placed under your thumb lets you jog through menus, joystick-style, rather than tapping them with a stylus. There's a short stylus hiding in the phone's backside, but it's mostly for working with downloaded third-party applications that haven't been upgraded to use the thumb switch yet.

    The gadget's signature feature is a QWERTY keyboard so tiny it looks like a toy, until you use it. Like a cell-phone number pad, it's meant to be thumbed with one hand rather than tapped or typed using both. My own thumb covers a third of the keys at once, yet I can feel each individual key and click each one separately without goofing. A tiny bump on the "5" key serves as home base for the phone dial-pad overlaid on the middle of the QWERTY pattern, and the phone applications are smart enough to know when you're keying in numbers instead of letters. With a few minutes' practice, I learned to pick up the phone, center my thumb on the bump, and make calls one-handed without looking down, just as I do on my Motorola.

    In contrast to the tiny keys, the screen is big and extra-bright. It doesn't have as many pixels as, say, a Sony UX50, so you can't fit a whole page of Slate across it. Handspring Chief Product Officer Jeff Hawkins claims focus groups opted for the brighter screen rather than more pixels. Apparently most Treo users want to check calendars and contact lists in broad daylight rather than read Web pages. They also complained about co-workers who bombard them with text messages, and the grumbling led to a revamped interface that includes instant-messenger-style windows for each person. That makes it easy to carry on a text conversation without constantly thumbing through menus.

    Even before it hit the streets, the Treo's buzz verged on the ridiculous. The Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg, who got the traditional first test drive, pronounced it better than any of the PocketPC or Blackberry PDAs he'd tested. Three months later, every gadget geek I run into seems to have one. Occasional Slate contributor Kevin Werbach blogsabout his. Gizmodo editor Peter Rojas carries one. By the time a Wired editor enthusiastically punctuated his point during a debate by whipping one of the things out of his pocket, I'd seen it coming.

    Carry the Treo long enough, and you can see how it could be slimmer and lighter, with even longer battery life. But it's only the first of a new generation of phones that will double as pocket computers. In another year, there'll be no need to choose between a bright screen or a high-res one. And while the Palm operating system has a solid fan club, a Windows-powered version would surely draw lots more customers. (There are a few Windows smartphonesavailable, but they can't match the Treo's screen, keyboard, and computing power. Disclosure: Microsoft owns Slate.)

    In a couple of years, the Treo 600 will seem big and clunky compared to its successors. But right now, it has the same effect on people as if I'd managed to fit the monolith from 2001 into my pocket. "Put it away, already," a software exec groaned as we passed one around a restaurant table last week. "You're embarrassing me and my stupid blue Blackberry." Hooray for Handspring: They've made the first smartphone that isn't dumb.


    Paul Boutin is a Silicon Valley writer who spent 15 years as a software engineer and manager.
    Photograph of the Treo 600 courtesy of palmOne.



    2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use Advertise TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement GetNetWise
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by vitb9doc
    at least the ad makes it clear that is a phond and a palm and email and internet. should help sales.
    Hello vitb9doc:

    I think we swapped emails in the past. Would you be willing to talk about your experience with the T6? You can email me at bkmd@wireless-doc.com.
    <a href="http://billkosloskymd.typepad.com/wirelessdoc/">Wireless Doc the blog</a>
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    First that is a CNN report, not Handspring, so complain about Time Warner, not Palm. Second, could you provide any evidence of dishonesty? I've been quite happy with the rollout!
    Evidence? Like we are in court? Like if I can't provide you with chapter and verse to a legal standard, you'll cry "gotcha"?

    I have enough gray hair on my head to say that experience counts for something. That human behavior tends to run in patterns. That it is not hard to normally draw accurate information from information, without being in the room with people as they plan to deceive.

    What I know is that the HS people at Mission Possible events made it clear that there would be a GSM launch in October. OCTOBER. That T-Mo would be first followed a week later by Cingular.

    We know that Dubinsky made an investor conference call that was uploaded to the old HS site wherein she indicated that GSM units of all flavors - including unlocked GSM units - would be available domestically by the end of October thru their site.

    We know that for weeks and weeks and weeks whenever we'd call HS, their CSRs would say 2 or 3 weeks for T-Mo and GSM in general, and even as the calendar slipped, the 2-3 week scenario stuck.

    We know that even as it stuck, HS CSRs denied specifically that there were any delays to the release of GSM units.

    We know that while they were saying this, insiders from T-Mo were telling us things that turned out to be reliably true - that not only was October out, but November would likely pass too before T-Mo units would be available ANYWHERE.

    We know that these slimers announced that Cingular GSMs were "available" when they were NOT. Only the ability to pre-order was available, and if you didn't get your order in within the first short burst of time, you'd have another couple of weeks tacked on to the pre-order delay.

    We also know, btw, that all this was going on at a time when shareholders were considering a merger, and I wonder if there is any link between the two issues?

    We know that to this day, there is no clear time frame when T-Mo units will be available. We have no idea when unlocked units will be available domestically. We know that the largest body of Treo GSM customers in the US have been treated like crap and have no idea when they will be able to buy a phone HONESTLY, without playing games with a Cingular or AT&T promotion (both of which have lapsed).

    We know that Palm is now saying they will refuse to provide Treo sales info, dishonestly claming that there is no reason to, since all PDAs have converged into a single product line.

    These people - to me - have proven that they are dishonest.

    So it does not surprise me that misinformation about their device enters the media.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by NateS


    What a bunch of bull.

    Handspring has been an innovator, taking Palm products forward, ever since the company's creation. Their accomplishments and successful sales, and excellent customer support, despite being an under-financed company from the start, is a testament to their excellence. If they were the type of company this writer claims, Palm would have let Handspring wither and die rather than taking them back into the fold.

    It seems like Trolling is a hobby for some who suffer from a perceived lack of attention in their lives.
    I don't disagree that HS has been far more innovative than Palm. But as much as an achievement as saying Barry Bonds hits more homers than me. Palm has NO INNOVATIVE TALENT because the people who invented Palm left to form Handspring! Duh.....

    So they are not carrying Palm products forward. Palm coasted on their fumes. They are carrying their own product forward. And that they are doing better at it than Palm is no great shakes.

    You want a comparison? Look at Sony. Now THAT is a company that has thoughtfully, creatively and SOUNDLY carried forward the platform. And what's more, they have done so WITHOUT crappy manufacturing defects, and without compromising features, unlike Handspring.

    And if their sales were so danged successful, they would have bought Palm instead of the other way around. The company TANKED precisely because they didn't have successful sales volumes!

    You call me names, because I dare to point out the shortcomings of your favorite toy manufacturer. How childish.
  12. #12  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by zipmitz

    I have enough gray hair on my head to say that experience counts for something.[QUOTE]


    Not that it matters, but all mine is gray, but leads me to different conclusions. {The picture in my avatar was taken quite a few years ago.}

    [QUOTE]What I know is that the HS people at Mission Possible events made it clear that there would be a GSM launch in October. OCTOBER. That T-Mo would be first followed a week later by Cingular.

    We know that Dubinsky made an investor conference call that was uploaded to the old HS site wherein she indicated that GSM units of all flavors - including unlocked GSM units - would be available domestically by the end of October thru their site.

    We know that for weeks and weeks and weeks whenever we'd call HS, their CSRs would say 2 or 3 weeks for T-Mo and GSM in general, and even as the calendar slipped, the 2-3 week scenario stuck.[QUOTE]


    Welcome to the world of computers. Is this a unique experience for you? The overwhelming majority of release dates for products in the computer market slip, not necessarily out of dishonesty, but simply because management's and marketing's enthusiam almost always exceeds development's ability to deliver the finished product. The most successful and wealthy computer company in the world is also the one most notorious for this practice, as are its competitors and companies which produce supporting product.

    You want a comparison? Look at Sony. Now THAT is a company that has thoughtfully, creatively and SOUNDLY carried forward the platform. And what's more, they have done so WITHOUT crappy manufacturing defects, and without compromising features, unlike Handspring.
    I agree with this. But comparing Sony's resources with Handspring's is also a non sequitur.

    You call me names, because I dare to point out the shortcomings of your favorite toy manufacturer. How childish.
    There are so many trolls on these boards, who are like witless bullies on a playground whose only entertainment is to insult and provoke a fistfight, that I mistook you for one. Your response suggests that I was wrong in applying that label to you, for which I apologize.

    We just disagree on Handspring.
    Last edited by NateS; 12/21/2003 at 11:05 AM.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    Evidence? Like we are in court?

    (Conspiracy theory 101)

    *******************************************

    (Advanced conspiracy theory 201)

    I don't disagree that HS has been far more innovative than Palm. But as much as an achievement as saying Barry Bonds hits more homers than me. Palm has NO INNOVATIVE TALENT because the people who invented Palm left to form Handspring! Duh.....

    You want a comparison? Look at Sony. Now THAT is a company that has thoughtfully, creatively and SOUNDLY carried forward the platform. And what's more, they have done so WITHOUT crappy manufacturing defects, and without compromising features, unlike Handspring.

    And if their sales were so danged successful, they would have bought Palm instead of the other way around. The company TANKED precisely because they didn't have successful sales volumes!

    Good Lord! Are you in Grade 2? Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny?

    Did Handspring screw up another rollout? Of course! But what did you expect? They have no money, limited revenues and are a guppy swimming in shark-infested waters. This is Big Business. Did you expect them to come out and tell everyone how tenuous their financial situation was and then scare off potential investors? That kind of honesty bankrupts companies. It's time you got over this and stopped acting like you've been personally wronged by Handspring.

    Against all odds, they managed to get a well-designed PDA-phone (barely) shipping in October. Given the size of their company, that's an accomplishment (like Mr. Bonds' home runs) that shouldn't be lessened by the fact that Handspring has/had "talent".

    Comparing multi-billion dollar Sony to tiny Handspring is a silly exercise.
  14. #14  
    [/QUOTE] Originally posted by zipmitz

    I have enough gray hair on my head to say that experience counts for something.[QUOTE]
    Originally posted by NateS
    Not that it matters, but all mine is gray, but leads me to different conclusions.

    At least you two HAVE hair!
    Serving those who have served Honorably. Marine For Life www.m4l.usmc.mil
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    Good Lord! Are you in Grade 2? Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny?

    Did Handspring screw up another rollout? Of course! But what did you expect? They have no money, limited revenues and are a guppy swimming in shark-infested waters. This is Big Business. Did you expect them to come out and tell everyone how tenuous their financial situation was and then scare off potential investors? That kind of honesty bankrupts companies. It's time you got over this and stopped acting like you've been personally wronged by Handspring.

    Against all odds, they managed to get a well-designed PDA-phone (barely) shipping in October. Given the size of their company, that's an accomplishment (like Mr. Bonds' home runs) that shouldn't be lessened by the fact that Handspring has/had "talent".

    Comparing multi-billion dollar Sony to tiny Handspring is a silly exercise.
    1. I understand that ONCE AGAIN HS fouled up a rollout. Having had so much experience in fouling up rollouts, one would have thought that they would have learned that LYING is not the way to talk your way out of the understandable hard feelings that result from YOUR foulup.

    2. Yes. I expect them to be honest with investors who put their money into their shares. NO. I consider it unethical and dishonest to hide your failing performance when you are a publicly traded company.

    3. Yes, I WAS personally wronged by HS. They solicited ME with their new unit MONTHS before. They FROZE MY purchase decision. They told ME what to expect in terms of product in my hands (notice how I didn't use the word available?) They LIED when they knew they would miss their mark TO ME ON THE PHONE. I did without smartphone functionability waiting for something they knew they wouldn't be able to deliver in the timeframe they led me to expect.

    4. No domestic shipping of GSM units were shipped in October, as was promised. So they didn't hit their mark. And I take note of your "against all odds" comment as indicative of a lack of objectivity on your part. How would YOU know what the odds are, and why do you assume they were so long? And why should they be long? They had MONTHS of lead time from the announcement of the detailed specs of the phone until the time they shipped it. Methinks that they are your favorite toymaker, and so they can do little if any wrong....

    5. I can indeed compare HS to Sony. For two reasons. The person I was responding to said that they were great innovators. What I said was that they were better than the people they abandonned and far worse than true innovators like Sony. And, by the way, since they had the vision to invent the whole product line, they should be held to the highest standards.
  16. #16  
    Can't believe people get so worked up over a PHONE for godsakes...

    Sheesh.
  17. #17  
    zip -

    Keep in mind that your issue very likely largely lies (how's that for alliteration, Henry Higgins?) with T-Mobile. HS might have indeed shipped their units to TMo, thus making good on their delivery promises and timeframes. From what I've read, anecdotally, it was TMo who slowed down the ultimate retail shipments, due to network testing and the like. (yes, that doesn't obviate HS from doing the requisite pre-testing, but you get my point)

    I know the bottom line to YOU is that you don't have the device in your hand, which is unfortunate, but point your finger at the responsible party - I would say it's about 80% T-Mo and probably 20% HS.

    I would also say, though, that you're taking this whole thing way too seriously - you're over-dramatizing the situation with comments like 'they lied to ME' and 'I was personally wronged' - c'mon man, this is an electronic device we're talking about, not world hunger. Get some perspective.
    (and I can say that quite smoothly since I do have my Sprint 600 - bwuahahahah)
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    zip -

    I would also say, though, that you're taking this whole thing way too seriously - you're over-dramatizing the situation with comments like 'they lied to ME' and 'I was personally wronged' - c'mon man, this is an electronic device we're talking about, not world hunger. Get some perspective.
    (and I can say that quite smoothly since I do have my Sprint 600 - bwuahahahah)
    I have to agree with nrosser here. In the 25 years or so I've been using computer hardware and software, I would say that it is rare that any company meets their projected rollout dates.

    That is why Jobs and Apple, through bitter past experience, no longer announce products until the day they are all manufactured and sitting in the warehouse ready to be shipped.

    And they are the exception. That great exemplar of success, Microsoft, generally announces products the morning Bill Gates decides over coffee that maybe he should assign the project to somebody on the team for development of such a product, and yet for years that's all it took for the majority of the public, including large corporate consumers, to pass on similar products already in the marketplace, waiting for the great behemoth's product.

    In this industry, vaporware is the rule not the exception, so why single out Handspring and take it so personally.


    Regards,

    NateS
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    1. I understand that ONCE AGAIN HS fouled up a rollout. Having had so much experience in fouling up rollouts, one would have thought that they would have learned that LYING is not the way to talk your way out of the understandable hard feelings that result from YOUR foulup.

    2. Yes. I expect them to be honest with investors who put their money into their shares. NO. I consider it unethical and dishonest to hide your failing performance when you are a publicly traded company.

    3. Yes, I WAS personally wronged by HS. They solicited ME with their new unit MONTHS before. They FROZE MY purchase decision. They told ME what to expect in terms of product in my hands (notice how I didn't use the word available?) They LIED when they knew they would miss their mark TO ME ON THE PHONE. I did without smartphone functionability waiting for something they knew they wouldn't be able to deliver in the timeframe they led me to expect.

    4. No domestic shipping of GSM units were shipped in October, as was promised. So they didn't hit their mark. And I take note of your "against all odds" comment as indicative of a lack of objectivity on your part. How would YOU know what the odds are, and why do you assume they were so long? And why should they be long? They had MONTHS of lead time from the announcement of the detailed specs of the phone until the time they shipped it. Methinks that they are your favorite toymaker, and so they can do little if any wrong....

    5. I can indeed compare HS to Sony. For two reasons. The person I was responding to said that they were great innovators. What I said was that they were better than the people they abandonned and far worse than true innovators like Sony. And, by the way, since they had the vision to invent the whole product line, they should be held to the highest standards.
    Are you ill, Zippy? Read what you've written. Or better yet, print your posts and have someone you trust read them and then give you their honest opinion. Your behaviour is... unusual.

    I said Handspring achieved something "against all odds" because I know how bad their financial situation was and I have also spoken to a few of their (former) employees in the past year. This was not a healthy company - they would not have lasted another year. Despite these problems, this tiny company managed to be the first to put out a proper convergence device, beating the likes of Sony, Samsung and Nokia to the punch. Not perfect, but still an achievement.
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by jennyfur
    Can't believe people get so worked up over a PHONE for godsakes...

    Sheesh.
    What is harder to believe. That, or that someone who doesn't care still finds the time to add 250 posts to a discussion board over a PHONE for godsakes?
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