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  1. #21  
    PS: anybody use Textras out there?
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by Ethereal
    -The cell phone/medical equipment interference thing is an urban legend, pure and simple. Our hospital (large university medical center) just contracted with a cell provider to place antennas throughout the facility so cell phones can be deployed as "always available" pager replacements.
    That isn't entirely true. I see hundreds of cell-phone tests come across my desk, and I have seen one demonstrated case of interference from a cell-phone in a hospital. If a phone with and active call was placed within 6 inches of the back plane of one brand of heart monitor, it would cause periodic abnormalities in the readings being recorded. Now this does seem like a very rare, unlikely scenario, so I would have no issues allowing cell-phones to be used in the hospital. I can also respect the right of hospitals to limit cell-phone usage. What really bugs me is when they make you leave the building to use a cell-phone. They should at least allow there use in lounges etc... Doctors get away with talking in their offices and even in the hallway, but visitors can't.
  3. #23  
    In response to the previous poster - epocrates works fine. You just have to use the stylus or your finger to actually select the medications from the list.
  4. #24  
    For me, a senior resident in anesthesiology, the T600's wireless internet capabilities are great for doing quick PubMed and MDConsult searches on the exotic comorbidities of the patients that get thrown at you (with 15 minutes' notice) where I work. Having recently upgraded from a non-networked PDA on which I kept a "mini-Barash" textbook, it's like the difference between a 3x5 notecard and the Library of Congress!

    I can't comment on e-prescribing, since anesthesiologists very rarely write scripts. I also don't suffer from the lack of voice recording, but across all specialties, it is probably the biggest single deficiency of the T600 as a do-all device for a physician.

    And goatsucker, if you're getting 3 hour battery life with your T600, you need to turn your SDIO arc welding attachment off every now and then; I can surf all day and have half the battery capacity remaining. The screen size is what fits on a device that fits in a human hand: you're stuck with it, unless you want some bastardized PDA-ified laptop beating against your hip all day--I don't. The current camera is not up to snuff for most medical photography, although some images just aren't that subtle, in which case it does just fine. More importantly, technology will progress and future convergence devices WILL sport cameras capable of "real" medical photography, provided lecherous voices like yours don't succeed in filling the minds of patients with images of any physician toting a PDA with an integrated camera as a closet amateur pornographer. That disgusting website is unforgivable.
  5. #25  
    I am an anesthesiologist in practice in the greater Dallas area. I purchased a Treo 600 with the idea that I could integrate the convenience of a phone with the ability to carry a reference source in one device. I am VERY happy with my decision. I work in scurbs all day and am able to carry ONE device that handles all of my needs. I currently use Epocrates, Clinical Anesthesia and The Manuel of Anesthesia Practice, MedCalc and ICD-9 codes. And like Ethereal, I have used theses references to get me out a jam when faced with patients with rare conditions. In addition I can call/page any of my colleagues while stuck in the OR. Intereference with medical equipment has not been a problem for me. The battery life is more than adequate for me - I currently get at least 48 hours with out recharge. I would love for a higher resolution screen (as long as the battery life doesn't suffer) but am more than happy with the current resolution. All in all the Treo 600 serves as a wonderful integration of two technologies (phone and PDA) and makes a excellent addition to any pracitice.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by Ethereal
    For me, a senior resident in anesthesiology, the T600's wireless internet capabilities are great for doing quick PubMed and MDConsult searches on the exotic comorbidities of the patients that get thrown at you (with 15 minutes' notice) where I work. Having recently upgraded from a non-networked PDA on which I kept a "mini-Barash" textbook, it's like the difference between a 3x5 notecard and the Library of Congress!

    I can't comment on e-prescribing, since anesthesiologists very rarely write scripts. I also don't suffer from the lack of voice recording, but across all specialties, it is probably the biggest single deficiency of the T600 as a do-all device for a physician.

    And goatsucker, if you're getting 3 hour battery life with your T600, you need to turn your SDIO arc welding attachment off every now and then; I can surf all day and have half the battery capacity remaining. The screen size is what fits on a device that fits in a human hand: you're stuck with it, unless you want some bastardized PDA-ified laptop beating against your hip all day--I don't. The current camera is not up to snuff for most medical photography, although some images just aren't that subtle, in which case it does just fine. More importantly, technology will progress and future convergence devices WILL sport cameras capable of "real" medical photography, provided lecherous voices like yours don't succeed in filling the minds of patients with images of any physician toting a PDA with an integrated camera as a closet amateur pornographer. That disgusting website is unforgivable.

    As I've said above, there are better choices than the Treo 600 for use as an optimized PDA in a medical environment. Most of the young posters above would not likely want to be using a Treo 600 if presbyopia set in. As an occasional reference for MedCalc/MedMath/Lexidrugs (original), it's adequate. The CLIE UX-50 form factor with the addition of the screen from the CLIE PEG-NZ90, 128 MB RAM and the Treo 600 5-way pad = a much more practical design. The Treo 600 screen is simply too small for serious use by the typical physician. (Despite the fact that it is POSSIBLE to use it as a primary PDA.)

    If you think you're actually getting a lot more than 3 hours effective use from the Treo 600, install a battery monitor and see for yourself.

    The Treo 600 is a great design, but I wouldn't try to pound a square peg into a round hole.

    http://medcalc.med-ia.net/desc.html

    http://smi-web.stanford.edu/people/pcheng/medmath/

    http://www.rawbw.com/~maznliz/marius/palm.shtml

    http://palm.jeroenwitteman.com/BatteryGraph/

    http://sonyelectronics.sonystyle.com/micros/clie/
    Last edited by The Chupacabra; 12/22/2003 at 10:51 PM.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra
    If you think you're actually getting a lot more than 3 hours effective use from the Treo 600, install a battery monitor and see for yourself.
    I'm not a doctor or a medical person (well I was a pharm technician for 5 years at a local hospital), but I'm going to weigh in. First you say that you shouldn't use the cell phone in a hospital setting and then you say the battery gets 3 hours. I think I could easily get a week with the cellphone part turned off. In fact your original quote is "The battery life is too short for serious PDA usage." I think a week (rated for two weeks by Handspring, but I use the cell phone part so I haven't tested this) is fine.

    As for your other points you might be right. At the same time the Sony doesn't have a cellphone/pager type access that I know of, so it wouldn't work for those allowed to use that type of functionality in their hospital settings.
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland


    I'm not a doctor or a medical person (well I was a pharm technician for 5 years at a local hospital), but I'm going to weigh in. First you say that you shouldn't use the cell phone in a hospital setting and then you say the battery gets 3 hours. I think I could easily get a week with the cellphone part turned off. In fact your original quote is "The battery life is too short for serious PDA usage." I think a week (rated for two weeks by Handspring, but I use the cell phone part so I haven't tested this) is fine.

    As for your other points you might be right. At the same time the Sony doesn't have a cellphone/pager type access that I know of, so it wouldn't work for those allowed to use that type of functionality in their hospital settings.
    What I said is most hospitals I've been in have restrictions on cell
    phones (for a variety of reasons).

    If you use a Treo 600 solely as a PDA, battery life is longer. But most people would not purchase a Treo 600 and then not use the cell phone and wireless data capabilities. Again, if you don't need cellphone/wireless data, there are several better options available from Palm and Sony.

    By the way, the only accurate testing is to use a battery monitoring app and check how long it takes to run the battery down:

    a) just using the PDA
    b) using processor-intensive functions on the PDA
    c) using the cell phone alone in a good reception area
    d) using the cell phone alone in a fringe reception area

    As far as I know, no one has yet published those kind of real world numbers. I was thinking of writing a Treo 600 review and would include real battery tests in it. That's the kind of nuts and bolts info that needs to be reported, along with things like speed of text input, side by side comparisons of voice quality (sent + received), data speeds, top 50 applications, undocumented features, customizing the phone, pricing/lock status from carriers, etc.

    Saying things like "my battery lasts x days" means nothing. If you use the PDA only for five minutes a day, you may very well go a week between needing charges. That doesn't help a power user that's planning to use the phone for two hours and the PDA for two hours a day.

    While it's always nice to cut down on the amount of equipment we have to lug around, sometimes it's better to have a device (like a pager) that's devoted to a single function. For hardcore medical use, I see the ideal combination as a light clamshell PDA like a future UX series (with Bluetooth, 802.11b, pager and Blackberry-style email ability) paired with a tiny Bluetooth phone like the Sony Ericsson T608, 68i, 610, etc. Or with a 4 ounce Bluetooth Treo 900 (sans antenna and camera and sized around 70% smaller than the current Treo 600).
    Last edited by The Chupacabra; 12/23/2003 at 01:26 AM.
  9. #29  
    I work in a research hospital as a PC tech.

    I have a question for you doctors that use your devices as a reference tool.

    Do you use them in front a patient?

    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by Felipe
    I work in a research hospital as a PC tech.

    I have a question for you doctors that use your devices as a reference tool.

    Do you use them in front a patient?

    No, but neither do I peruse textbooks or journals in front of them. I think that would be rude.
  11. #31  
    Despite the concerns that some users have regarding the Treo 600 for medical use, I've got to say that I've had no problems at all. The screen is extremely legible despite being 160x160. I do think that 320 x 320 would be significantly better for web browsing. I was not a fan of the Sony UX series, mainly because of the expense (I paid only $400 for the Treo) and the requirement of a seperate cell phone. Some people find this combination is superior, but I definitely prefer the single-device approach. I previously was using the Tungsten T3 with a Sony Ericsson T610.

    The battery life of the Treo has been excellent, even with the cell phone function on. I found the battery life on the T3 to be far worse, but I was a heavy user of Bluetooth, which uses quite a bit of power. I also found that net access via Bluetooth/GPRS was slower than the direct GPRS access from the Treo.

    There is no WiFi support in my hospital, but this may tip the scales for some as WiFi would definitely be faster than GPRS.

    I agree with others that the camera is useless for medical purposes. The screen is not of high enough quality for display of medically relevant images, though I'm not sure 320x320 would be adequate either.

    Individual users really have to look at their requirements and figure out what is appropriate. Blanket statements about the Treo being adequate or inadequate for medical use are not really helpful.

    To give you an idea of my use - I am a medical senior resident who is 30 years old with slightly suboptimal eyesight. I use the Treo largely for note taking, drug and other reference guides, and medical calculators (as well as more typical PIM usage). Even though I often do not use the phone functionality within the hospital, it's very useful to have an all-in-one device outside of the hospital. I found the two-device approach cumbersome and inconvenient.

    Just my opinion.
  12. #32  
    Slightly off topic -- those of you spending all day in scrubs, what kind of case are you using?
  13. emajy's Avatar
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    #33  
    Originally posted by Felipe
    I work in a research hospital as a PC tech.

    I have a question for you doctors that use your devices as a reference tool.

    Do you use them in front a patient?

    I will run an epocrates multi-check in front of the patient. They are usually very impressed.
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by djwang
    Slightly off topic -- those of you spending all day in scrubs, what kind of case are you using?
    I use a leather case made for HP iPaq and sold at Best Buy. The T600 rides horizontally with the screen facing in toward my left hip. It's similar to the HS horizontal case, but it has a self-securing flap (magnetic) and two little pockets for SD cards. As the iPaq is apparently about 1.5 cm wider than the T600, there'd be room to stash a headset down in the bottom of the compartment.

    I tried the form-fitting case that snapped on and off of the belt clip, hoping it would serve as a "raincoat" for the Treo against all the nasty forms of precipitation that can occur in the OR. However, between having to stab at the recessed touchscreen and the realization that any outward-facing LCD on my hip was living on borrowed time, I made the switch.

    Merry Christmas to all!
  15. #35  
    I routinely use Epocrates in front of patients, primarily to answer the question "how much will that drug cost me".

    I use the Krusell form fit case, so far I like it alot.
  16. #36  
    Although I have no useful thoughts to contribute to this thread, I just wanted to chime in (somehow) by mentioning that I recently (a month ago) finished my applications to med school...woohoo!
  17. jwbekens's Avatar
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    #37  
    I am a med school neurology professor and I use my Treo all the time. I started with a Visor deluxe, went to a Treo 90 and now a 600.
    I use TreoAlertMgr for pages.
    I use Firepad and convert patient MRI and CT scans for teaching purposes and to show patients. I show them dermatome charts and I have scanned in charts of all the peripheral nerves. The detail and resolution of the screen is just fine.

    Snappermail is just awesome for my 3 email accounts and keeping business and science separated from personal mail and for downloading the conference and call schedule in excel or word format.

    I use Docs2Go and edit powerpoint lectures on the go.

    I use Omniremote to turn off the TVs in patient rooms on rounds, though I miss using the springboard module from the Vdx which had a 50-60 foot range. Now, I gotta get close the TVs instead of turning em off from out in the hallway.

    I use PubMed wireless and PubMed on Tap for literature searches on rounds. I take pictures of my students and residents and send them to their parents for fun to let them know they are working diligently. I have used PatientKeeper in the past, but now I use Pendragon forns for tracking patients. I use MDcoder for coding along with StatCoder. I use palm print and snail mailer to IR print scripts. I have all the nerve conduction information in a database program called List along with medical pearls. I use Flashcard, too, for medical trivia and to test recall. I have of bunch of other medical software that I regularly use. I still use Actioneer and use intelliboogers in DiddleBug with it. Epocrates is a standard, and eponyms. I have used the Johns Hopkins antimicrobial guide, but epocrates ID is adequate for me. I us IE2PDB to convert articles in MDconsult or Uptodate or other online Journals to PDB files. PeditPro lets me convert them to memos if needed.

    Overall, the convergence of pager, cell phone, PDA, MP3 player and even the wimpy camera has been useful.

    I use the Piel Frama case on my sprint 600. I got it from styluscentral (just sent it back for the modified version, even though the deformation over the speaker buldge wasn't too bad. Great customer service.)

    I was asked to go on the local news and comment about a paper in JAMA. My JAMA hadn't arrived, so I downloaded the article on the Treo while waiting to go on air.

    Can't wait for voice recognition in the future. Biggest disappointment with all Treos is the inability to use Fitaly or FitalyStamp. Much faster input than the keyboard.

    I routinely get download speeds greater than 90 Kb/sec when testing on www.dslreports.com

    Yep, I am a happy Treo 600 doc.
    Jon
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by jwbekens
    I am a med school neurology professor... <snipped a lot of stuff that most physicians would find awkward to do>

    Yep, I am a happy Treo 600 doc.
    Jon
    If you're really a physician (and not a med student) I'd be surprised if you really use all those apps you mentioned. PatientKeeper? Get serious. That's designed for Med IVs - not someone's that a "med school neurology professor". Most physicians use their Palms for a drug guide, medical reference, daily schedule and contacts. You would be considered to be several standard deviations away from the norm in terms of your usage profile.
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    #39  
    Just had to chime in here...

    I'm an RN in a busy (90,000+ visits a year) ER located in a large city. I use Epocrates to look up drug dosages for my patients when they can't remember. When I'm dealing with medical conditions I'm not totally familliar with, I check out Griffiths 5mEmerg or 5mCC.

    Interpret those lab values? RNLabs & LyteMeister will do.

    Intubating and need to know the loading dose of Diprivan? Ultimate Drug Guide w/integrated med calc.

    Remember to check a patient in 5 minutes?? BugMe w/alarm.

    Can't remember what a Sister Mary Joseph node is?? Medical Eponyms via Isilo.

    Tell the girlfriend I'll be sleeping in late today (I work nights)?? Send an e-mail or SMS.

    All this without having to carry 2 or three pieces of equipment. I'll agree that the camera is worthless except for casual snapshots. I do miss my high resolution screen, but not as much as I thought.

    As far as a case, I managed to snag a custom case from http://www.vajacases.com. Comes with a belt clip and a cover for the front. It was pricey but it's also the holidays, and I had the same case for my old Clie. It was indestructable and lasted longer than my Clie!

    Regarding cellphone restrictions, my hospital has a selective enforcement policy: doctors OK, patients and family NO. I think it's a little ridiculous except in places like CCU/ICU.

    Lastly, Wi-Fi would not be appreciated due to the battery drain problem. My Treo lasts thru a 12 hour shift of nearly constant use, never dropping below 50% battery capacity.
    -Craig J.

    Visor Platinum -= Clie T615CS -= treo 600 -=treo 650 -= Tilt
    "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. "
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  20. cphil674's Avatar
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    #40  
    Originally posted by Ethereal


    I tried the form-fitting case that snapped on and off of the belt clip, hoping it would serve as a "raincoat" for the Treo against all the nasty forms of precipitation that can occur in the OR. However, between having to stab at the recessed touchscreen and the realization that any outward-facing LCD on my hip was living on borrowed time, I made the switch.

    Merry Christmas to all!
    Specifically, I use the Classic 797 from Vaja cases. Swivel belt clip, front cover, nearly indestructable. Pricey but worth it.
    -Craig J.

    Visor Platinum -= Clie T615CS -= treo 600 -=treo 650 -= Tilt
    "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. "
    -Douglas Adams
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