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  1.    #1  
    After over two months of (sporadic) sales, does anyone know the total number of Treo 600 sold by Handspring and all the carriers so far?

    Any hints from the recent Palm SEC filing?
  2.    #2  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra
    After over two months of (sporadic) sales, does anyone know the total number of Treo 600 sold by Handspring and all the carriers so far?

    Any hints from the recent Palm SEC filing?

    My estimate: 40, 000 as of today.
  3. #3  
    Well you and me, so that's 2... and counting

    It seems to me that the T600 is catching on a lot better then the T300 ever did. I too would like to know how many.
  4. #4  
    I have one as well, so that's three. There must be others on this board that have one, I think.
  5.    #5  
    Originally posted by Burkhardi
    Well you and me, so that's 2... and counting


    It sounds like you don't have the "insider info" we're looking for...


  6. #6  
    I bought mine this week from an Orange store in the UK. I had called 4 stores in all, 2 had none left and in the 2 largest shopping centres in the South East they had 2 and 1 each.

    Either they dont stock large numbers or they sell a lot.

    The assistant told me that sales were 'brisk' and while doing the paperwork 2 people came in and asked about it.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    It sounds like you don't have the "insider info" we're looking for...


    Unfortunately, the SEC takes it very personally when insiders post those kinds of numbers. This has a tendancy to scare away anyone who actually knows anything.
  8. #8  
    100,000 TREO 600s of some flavor have been "shipped" - it is STILL unclear what palmOne means by "shipped" in that "shipped" could ALSO mean "shipped TO palmOne". "shipped" does NOT mean, however, "sold through to end customers".

    -----

    W.r.t. 'sell through' PalmOne said:

    == "We don't know how many have been 'sold through'
    == because many of the venues we do business with
    == aren't accurate/fast at reporting such things however
    == a rough estimate is that the sell-through rate for TREO
    == 600s is 7% higher than TREOs sold this time last year"

    (paraphrased since it's from memory).

    -----

    That is, the TREO 600 on intro is selling 7% better than the previous TREOs sold months after their intro last year.

    I would encourage anyone who is interested in such financial-oriented things to LISTEN to the just-presented earnings conference available here:

    -- http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site....item_id=825404

    As even some of the most Cheerleading of Cheerleading Advocates FOR palmOne/TREO (elsewhere) have noted, palmOne doesn't want to say anything of substance anymore. In the future they're "promised" not even to break out TREO numbers. The analysts did not sound pleased.
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 12/19/2003 at 05:59 AM.
  9. #9  
    Apparently in the months of September and October, 48,000 units were shipped. In the month of October, 52,000 units were shipped. The guy in charge of Plmo production indicated in late September that the shorfall was the result of material shortages, not production capacity shortages. More recently Todd indicated that the shortages might revolve around Plmo desire to switch some sources in an attempt to lower costs. Jeff Hawkins has indicated surprise that Plmo had a significant ability to buy units cheaper than Handspring could. Since at the moment, Treos carry almost a 30% gross margin, additional production savings might set the stage for future price cuts. But I wouldn't expect the price cuts until capacity catches up with demand. They indicated another service provider was getting ready to go. It would seem to be Vz. They also indicated that some employees were still working temporarily on assignment until late January when they would leave. Perhaps they are doing the final programing for the new service provider. Filling the new distribution pipeline should keep Treo 600s in short supply for a while, perhaps through February according to Plmo.
  10. #10  
    37.4 million units have been sold to date.
  11. #11  
    > 37.4 million units have been sold to date.

    Giggle.
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by cosmicpatriot
    37.4 million units have been sold to date.
    It is too early to be drinking that heavily...
  13.    #13  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    100,000 TREO 600s of some flavor have been "shipped" - it is STILL unclear what palmOne means by "shipped" in that "shipped" could ALSO mean "shipped TO palmOne". "shipped" does NOT mean, however, "sold through to end customers".

    -----

    W.r.t. 'sell through' PalmOne said:

    == "We don't know how many have been 'sold through'
    == because many of the venues we do business with
    == aren't accurate/fast at reporting such things however
    == a rough estimate is that the sell-through rate for TREO
    == 600s is 7% higher than TREOs sold this time last year"

    (paraphrased since it's from memory).

    -----

    That is, the TREO 600 on intro is selling 7% better than the previous TREOs sold months after their intro last year.

    I would encourage anyone who is interested in such financial-oriented things to LISTEN to the just-presented earnings conference available here:

    -- http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site....item_id=825404

    As even some of the most Cheerleading of Cheerleading Advocates FOR palmOne/TREO (elsewhere) have noted, palmOne doesn't want to say anything of substance anymore. In the future they're "promised" not even to break out TREO numbers. The analysts did not sound pleased.
    Thanks for the info. Is the 100,000 number based on the conference call? I agree that Palm is being vague, but it's in their best interests to be vague right now. I'll bet that 100,000 represents the total they had built in the first production run before the merger. They probably won't finish selling these 1st generation Treo 600 for a few months (once Verizon and T-Mobile are added to the fold).

    I don't think I want to hear Palm is looking to cut costs on the Treo 600. If they lower quality further with cheaper components, all these 1st generation phones might be as good as the lineup ever gets. That would be a mistake.
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra

    I don't think I want to hear Palm is looking to cut costs on the Treo 600. If they lower quality further with cheaper components, all these 1st generation phones might be as good as the lineup ever gets. That would be a mistake.
    Have you ever seen/used a Palm i705? The cheapy feel of that machine, and the clunkiness of its successor, the Tungsten W (this is the one they consider a "phone" but can't be used as one without earbuds or an optional "audio flip cover") are proof of how out-of-touch that company is with the design of phone-based products. It shows how badly Palm needs Handspring, because they really have no idea what they're doing with wireless devices. Aside from poor industrial design/tactile impressions (feels cheap), Palm's whole philosophy has been to make wireless web devices rather than phones with GPRS capabilities. Then they pair these devices with AT&T, the most ridiculously-priced (when it comes to data-only plans) and un-customer friendly service provider in the U.S.

    When I heard that Palm and Handspring were merging, I thought "well, there goes a good thing." I really hope that Palm can leave the Handspring group alone to continue to create the great products that they do. They are really turning into the Apple of the handheld world. Hopefully Palm can realize that having premium products such as the Treo in the lineup, even if they are not the most profitable devices, is great for brand awareness and advertising.

    It really could go either way. I guess we'll see....

    -S
  15.    #15  
    Originally posted by spiffyguyc


    Have you ever seen/used a Palm i705? The cheapy feel of that machine, and the clunkiness of its successor, the Tungsten W (this is the one they consider a "phone" but can't be used as one without earbuds or an optional "audio flip cover") are proof of how out-of-touch that company is with the design of phone-based products. It shows how badly Palm needs Handspring, because they really have no idea what they're doing with wireless devices. Aside from poor industrial design/tactile impressions (feels cheap), Palm's whole philosophy has been to make wireless web devices rather than phones with GPRS capabilities. Then they pair these devices with AT&T, the most ridiculously-priced (when it comes to data-only plans) and un-customer friendly service provider in the U.S.

    When I heard that Palm and Handspring were merging, I thought "well, there goes a good thing." I really hope that Palm can leave the Handspring group alone to continue to create the great products that they do. They are really turning into the Apple of the handheld world. Hopefully Palm can realize that having premium products such as the Treo in the lineup, even if they are not the most profitable devices, is great for brand awareness and advertising.

    It really could go either way. I guess we'll see....

    -S

    Palm may have saved Handspring from going bankrupt, but I think Palm is counting on Handspring to save Palm's a$$ (assuming no buyout from Sony). The market for regular PDAs is already evaporating and with the Treo 600 Palm gets the solidly-engineered phone that they were incapable of designing. But if the bean counters at Palm think they can nickel and dime us by cutting more corners, Nokia, Sony Ericsson and Motorola are going to teach them a lesson.
  16. #16  
    You know, I don't mind if they cut costs here and there to make the Treo more affordable. They just better make sure JH doesn't cut a high rez screenie or BT from the next Treo or I'll be pissed!
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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  17. #17  
    > ...Palm may have saved Handspring from going
    > bankrupt, but I think Palm is counting on Handspring
    > to save Palm's a$$ ...

    One of the most shocking aspects of the earnings call from THIS reader's POV was the repeated strong mention and emphasis of the TREO 600 by palmOne management. Not only did they mention it over and over again, they essentially said outright that they expect sales to INCREASE from the introduction sales size.

    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $that$ $would$ $be$ $a$ $first$ $in$ $the$ $entire$ $phone$ $industry$.

    Doesn't make sense to me, no matter HOW many carriers palmOne gets to carry it, BWTFDIK! (*)

    I was under the distinct impression - after the Analyst Day presentation in NYC - that palmOne had two strong divisions with Senior Vice President Ken Wirt very much AGAINST "converged" devices. If he IS of such a bent then I think he's going to be on the street sooner than later because it sure does seem to me that the TREO side has THOROUGHLY won most senior management over.

    ======

    > ...Is the 100,000 number based on the conference call?...

    Yes - 48,000 pre- + 52,000 post-merger shipped.

    Since palmOne said their "channel inventory" has grown too high (though they did NOT say what was IN that inventory) those shipped numbers do not represent sold-through numbers - and because future earnings calls aren't even going to give THAT much info we'll likely never really know how many TREOs of any type sold to end-customers.

    ======

    (*) palmone itself said (as noted in my first post in this thread) that the TREO 600 was roughly selling-through RIGHT NOW AT INTRODUCTION about 7% more than TREOs were selling same time last year BUT NOT AT THEIR INTRODUCTION.

    As far as we know, high tech early-adopter devices ALWAYS sell best on introduction with sales then falling rapidly to a semi-steady-state level until trickling off (maybe quickly!) as the technology "gets old".

    So, is 7% better sales REALLY better?

    Obviously, I personally think it's LOUSY! If this TREO 600 is "the real thing" as Hawkins purportedly said (see an old TreoCentral thread for that...) then I would think that ON INTRODUCTION the TREO 600 should have devastated the sales figures for the older TREOs that had been around for sometime at this time last year.

    [BTW - TreoCentral itself might just have a handle on sell-through since they themselves sell the TREO 600 - wonder if they'll ever chime in with any info...]
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 12/20/2003 at 06:11 AM.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by oscarc


    Unfortunately, the SEC takes it very personally when insiders post those kinds of numbers. This has a tendancy to scare away anyone who actually knows anything.
    You know, I wonder if the SEC would be interested in reviewing the correlation, if any, of the comments made around the launch date regarding product availaiblity for the new Treo and the shareholder vote on the acquisition of Handspring by Palm.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    100,000 TREO 600s of some flavor have been "shipped" - it is STILL unclear what palmOne means by "shipped" in that "shipped" could ALSO mean "shipped TO palmOne". "shipped" does NOT mean, however, "sold through to end customers".

    -----

    W.r.t. 'sell through' PalmOne said:

    == "We don't know how many have been 'sold through'
    == because many of the venues we do business with
    == aren't accurate/fast at reporting such things however
    == a rough estimate is that the sell-through rate for TREO
    == 600s is 7% higher than TREOs sold this time last year"

    (paraphrased since it's from memory).

    -----

    That is, the TREO 600 on intro is selling 7% better than the previous TREOs sold months after their intro last year.

    I would encourage anyone who is interested in such financial-oriented things to LISTEN to the just-presented earnings conference available here:

    -- http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site....item_id=825404

    As even some of the most Cheerleading of Cheerleading Advocates FOR palmOne/TREO (elsewhere) have noted, palmOne doesn't want to say anything of substance anymore. In the future they're "promised" not even to break out TREO numbers. The analysts did not sound pleased.
    Not breaking out Treo sales? I find it amazing to hear that they are not going to provide information with regard to this substantial acquisition. Even if you put to one side the notion that they may decide to not provide fine line details about specific handheld models (why not?) they are basically saying that they will deny investors any information that will allow them to evaluate how this important investment turned out. WHY WHY WHY?

    Can't be for good reasons.

    As to their investor calls, I for one will NEVER forget the last Handspring one, where Donna Dubinsky made comments regarding GSM that, to my ear, have turned out to be materially wrong.

    I wouldn't trust these people if they had their tongues notarized.
  20. #20  
    The CFO literally says they historically broke things out by "sector" however, since all their products are in the same sector now (as she enumerated handheld and wireless in LITERALLY the same breath!), they will not break them out anymore. Essentially she said this latest earnings call was the last one to break out TREO numbers.

    Such is life.

    One of the most PROpalmOne posters on another message board actually expressed concern about this future lack of reporting of numbers so it's not just ranters who think it's counterproductive!
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