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  1.    #1  
    it seems the treo simply can't handle the power requirements for WiFi...

    Brighthand Article

    "The second problem is hardware related. Since Wi-Fi capabilities were not an original design requirement, the majority of Palm OS handhelds use components with maximum power specifications below Wi-Fi needs. It is technically possible to use the SD Wi-Fi card but its usage may damage the device and void the warranty. A number of handheld computer manufacturers have assured SanDisk that they will modify the designs of their SDIO devices to correct this problem but that doesn't help people who already own handhelds that aren't capable of powering the SD Wi-Fi card, like the Treo 600."
  2. #2  
    Couple of things here...

    1) Do we know for sure that the Treo 600 can't handle the power requirements? I mean it gives the Treo 600 as an example, but it seems like an off-handed example.

    2) The article talks about the SanDisk one, not necessarily other Wi-Fi card makers. Someone else's card might require less power.

    3) Article says it sounds technically possible. Someone leaks the drivers out here, and I'll be sure to give a try. I haven't seen anything in writing saying that it would void the warranty
  3. #3  
    umm...there's already a mega discussion of this topic in another thread...
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  4. #4  
    I suppose, I was thinking the Wi-fi card being an accessory and hence in this forum. Then again the power ability of the Treo is the hardware and hence the other discussion.
  5. #5  
    All I keep hearing from the non-carers in this forum is my pda is what I use to pda, and I got my laptop to do blah-blah-blah, and I got my expensive Treo 600 to make phone calls.

    The reason why some of us do and should care about this is that those of us who have envisionment would like to have only one device strapped to our belt that can do it all, quickly, cheaply and efficiently.

    Nobody likes to lug even a lightweight laptop (not so light with all the gadgets you connect to them in your case) around everywhere, all the time. And... the alternative to only carry the Treo 600, vice a cellphone, pda blackberry or two-way and a laptop just makes sense. When an unplanned system down occurs on your LAN/WAN/WLAN enabled enterprise and you are contacted while on a smokebreak or at your campus cafeteria, how fast do you want your Treo 600 to come to the rescue. Or do you carry All your gadgets around everywhere looking like a total geek?
  6. #6  
    Not to sound contrary, but I think most everyone here has "envisionment" - that's why we're here. To make it all a reality.

    Some are just a little more frustrated than others, I guess.

    Flames, and even quasi-flames like yours, just don't contribute.
    Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. --Ironicles (lesser known cousin of a famous Greek teacher).

    USR PalmPilot 5000 --> Handspring Prism --> Dell Axim X5 (UGH!!) --> Treo 600
  7. dootndo2's Avatar
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    #7  
    Here is the email that was sent to me from SanDisk:

    Hello,

    Thank you for contacting SanDisk Technical Support.

    We do not have Palm support and do not know when we will. There are business issues with Palm Source that are preventing us from delivering a solution. We apologize for the inconvenience that this may have caused you.

    If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this e-mail or contact our technical support department toll free at 866-SANDISK (866-726-3475). Our technical support team is open Monday through Friday, 7 am to 4 pm PST. Have a Great Day and thank you for choosing SanDisk!

    Best Regards,
    Scott
    ==============================================

    Here is the email that I sent to TreoCentral.com:

    I found the website of the OEM provider that SanDisk is using for the SD Wi-Fi Card. The location is at:

    http://www.sychip.com

    I have emailed them regarding support for the SD Wi-Fi Card. I hope to hear from them soon. They claim to have current support for Palm OS 4.0 and OS 5.0. Once they confirm this, we can begin to petition SanDisk to release at least a beta version of the driver for those of us who want to use Wi-Fi instead of data services. I have also requested to be a beta tester for this product.

    If you have any questions regarding my findings, please let me know. Publishing information about OEM relationships may not be favored, but I have seen many Treo 600 owners complain about lack of support. Apparently there may be support.

    dennis@denniscentral.com
    The point of this is that if the Treo 600 does not implement the correct amount of power on the bus as it should, then it will not work. I highly doubt that PalmOne will never have a SD Compatible card for any of its Palm devices. Chances are that there is some driver compatibility problem between the driver and the OS that is preventing it from being posted. If the Treo 600 meets the SD standard for power on the bus, chances are the device probably doesn't work correctly with one or two of the Palm OS devices, not necessarily all of them. I cannot believe that SanDisk would turn away customers because of a driver problem. Also, these new 802.11x chips require a very low power to run. These power levels can be modified using firmware and software. What probably will happen is a different company will develop an 802.11b solution specifically for Palm devices. There still is nothing that says we should give up hope. I am waiting to hear from the ODM Company. They claim to have drivers for OS 4.x and OS 5.x. I have also offered my services as a beta tester, or an outside contractor to help expedite testing. I have not heard from them yet.

    I used to be the lead Wireless Networking QA engineer at a large OEM company that sells 802.11x wireless products. I also have extensive experience dealing with many of the ODM manufacturers in the U.S. and Taiwan. This situation is familiar and happens frequently. Chances are that the issue is a political one and not necessarily a hardware related issue.

    I had the 802.11b Xircom card for my Visor Prism. Blazer on that platform was basically useless without JavaScript support. Now that we have it, 802.11b can definitely be useful. Also, since 802.11x is my specialty, I would like to have support on my new device. If I come across anything else, I will post it here.

    dootndo2
  8. #8  
    sychip has just announced a new low power SDIO wifi card specifically to address the power problem with palm devices and smartphones.

    it is announced, has passed FCC qualifications and wifi certification. no word on when it will be released (probably by sandisk and others) but I would imagine it will be sooner than we think.
  9. #9  
    At the CES/L.V., the C-Guys.com engineer told me the wi-fi SDIO card will be out in March and will support palm os 5. I asked him about the power issue and he doesn't seem to think it's a problem. They are working on the driver for palm os 5 right now and should have it completed in weeks.

    Right next to C-guys' booth, the SyChip engineer assured their version will come out soon.

    my findings....
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by epoints
    At the CES/L.V., the C-Guys.com engineer told me the wi-fi SDIO card will be out in March and will support palm os 5. I asked him about the power issue and he doesn't seem to think it's a problem. They are working on the driver for palm os 5 right now and should have it completed in weeks.

    Right next to C-guys' booth, the SyChip engineer assured their version will come out soon.

    my findings....

    http://www.c-guys.com/Sdlink11b_index_en.htm

    There's the link to C-guys.com site with a picture of it. Form factor will certainly work with the Treo600, but no mention of OS5 on the page.....

    wait and see... wait and see...
    Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. --Ironicles (lesser known cousin of a famous Greek teacher).

    USR PalmPilot 5000 --> Handspring Prism --> Dell Axim X5 (UGH!!) --> Treo 600
  11. #11  
    Never tell a tech that they can't do anything.

    Senrio...
    A sled that connects to the connector on the bottom, same place that the hotsync plugs into when you use the treo as a modem. this sled will have a battery in it, another connector on the bottom so basialy it's a feed thru and you will have Wi-Fi.

    May be a little think, but better then a poke in the eye and no Wi-Fi..

    it can be done, just how bad of a hicky can you handle.....

    I'm all for the slim extened battery with Wi-Fi interneal...heck thow BT in there too, I'm sure someone will rather have that, not me...Wi-Fi...

    just my 2-cents, Matt Burkhard
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by Matthew



    http://www.c-guys.com/Sdlink11b_index_en.htm

    There's the link to C-guys.com site with a picture of it. Form factor will certainly work with the Treo600, but no mention of OS5 on the page.....

    wait and see... wait and see...
    I got a product information sheet from C-guys in CES shows the release date, if anyone is interested? my scanner at work can only save as pdf format. Can someone convert it to gif or other format for posting?
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by epoints


    I got a product information sheet from C-guys in CES shows the release date, if anyone is interested? my scanner at work can only save as pdf format. Can someone convert it to gif or other format for posting?
    PDF actually would be great... if ya need a place to host it, email it to me. i'll put it on my site and provide up a link to the forum.
    Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. --Ironicles (lesser known cousin of a famous Greek teacher).

    USR PalmPilot 5000 --> Handspring Prism --> Dell Axim X5 (UGH!!) --> Treo 600
  14. #14  
    SyChip Announces Low Power Wi-Fi SD Card
    Posted By: Ryan on Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:29:48 PM
    SyChip, the ODM behind the current SanDisk Wi-Fi card, has announced a new low power WiFi SDIO card. The new card is optimized for PDA's and Smartphones where power and battery life is at a premium.

    The new WLAN6065SD card is a SDIO 802.11b network interface card. The design has been targeted for battery sensitive devices. This is a significant point because some of the delays behind the SanDisk card are related to SD power supply issues.

    The new card complete card design incorporating the baseband processor, MAC, Memory, VCO, Transceiver antenna and all drivers. The card is already passed WiFi certification and is FCC and CE certified. It measures 53 x 24mm. For security it supports WEP, LEAP, and Wi-Fi protected access protocols. The card can also operate in peer to peer mode (without an access point) to download data from wirelessly equipped laptops without a cradle or network connection, and can share data directly with other wireless PDAs.

    SyChip will license the the card to other OEMs which will market the card under their own brands. It is not yet known when it will become available or at what price point. It will be compatible with Palm OS 5.x handhelds with an SD slot.

    This is specifically made for the treo market, it is compatible.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by Matthew


    PDF actually would be great... if ya need a place to host it, email it to me. i'll put it on my site and provide up a link to the forum.
    Okay... I need your email address...
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by epoints


    I got a product information sheet from C-guys in CES shows the release date, if anyone is interested? my scanner at work can only save as pdf format. Can someone convert it to gif or other format for posting?
    Okay, peeps... for those who are interested, here is a link for a PDF displaying promo from C-guys concerning their SDIO WIFI Card. Says specifically that support for OS5 will be available Q1/2004.

    Thanks to epoints for providing the info!

    Cguys SDIO WIFI Card (175KB PDF)

    Best regards, Matthew
    Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. --Ironicles (lesser known cousin of a famous Greek teacher).

    USR PalmPilot 5000 --> Handspring Prism --> Dell Axim X5 (UGH!!) --> Treo 600
  17. AJB
    AJB is offline
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    #17  
    Sorry for the delay in answering your query, I was awaiting feedback from
    Engineering.

    And the response does not seem to be good, while we fall within the high/low
    window for the SDIO spec, we are near the low end between 100 and 150 mA.
    Based on this, the SanDisk WiFi is most likely not going to work
    consistently with Treo 600. (Please note: we do not have the card to test
    yet)
    Looks like if this is correct, even the C-Guys card is too much power (260mA).

    AJB
    Q: How do you make God laugh?
    A: Tell Him your plans :-)
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by AJB


    Looks like if this is correct, even the C-Guys card is too much power (260mA).

    AJB
    Serious bummer.

    But riddle me this - can anyone answer?

    How does an underpowered card behave? Does it not produce any viable signal? or merely one that's not strong enough to go the distance? perhaps one just needs to be closer to the access point then...?
    Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. --Ironicles (lesser known cousin of a famous Greek teacher).

    USR PalmPilot 5000 --> Handspring Prism --> Dell Axim X5 (UGH!!) --> Treo 600
  19. AJB
    AJB is offline
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    #19  
    Originally posted by Matthew


    Serious bummer.

    But riddle me this - can anyone answer?

    How does an underpowered card behave? Does it not produce any viable signal? or merely one that's not strong enough to go the distance? perhaps one just needs to be closer to the access point then...?
    This is conjecture - not having designed an SDIO slot, but potentially (no pun intended) one could damage the slot/treo if the card draws too much power.

    Having said that, hopefully there is some cct protection and the radio just doesn't get the power, and the card gracefully shuts down.
    Q: How do you make God laugh?
    A: Tell Him your plans :-)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew
    Serious bummer.

    But riddle me this - can anyone answer?

    How does an underpowered card behave? Does it not produce any viable signal? or merely one that's not strong enough to go the distance? perhaps one just needs to be closer to the access point then...?
    why not a SD card with a battery? have the card stick out of the slot, (better to have a antenna anyway, and then have a small rechargable battery in the external part,
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