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  1. #61  
    gfunk:
    Since I'm responding from the Treo, allow me repsond to you post in general rather than point-by-point.

    Anecdotal accounts no less real than statistical ones, they're just not necessarily as representative. For instance, Gore should gave won the last election by a landslide since nearly everyone I came in contact with was anti-Bush. But not everyone lives in Southern California. So while my perception of the political climate here may have been real enough, it would've been a mistake to infer that LA was a microcosm of the national sentiment.

    I'm unmoved by DAFS (do a search) replies when I point to a lack of statistical evidence for two reasons: I didn't make the argument in the first place, and I won't be goaded into making a case against WiFi which, as I've said numerous times, is not my position. I have simply said that the presumed (i.e. not yet a fact) lack of imminent WiFi capability would be unfortunate, not catastrophic. I'm sorry if your decision to buy the Treo 600 hinged on the WiFi card, but I suppose my relative equanimity has to do with what the Treo could do from the day I bought it. Subsequent capabilities, like Shoutcast, were pleasant surprise. Now I'm elated that I can do Python scripting right on the Treo. That carries more weight for me than WiFi, but I certainly don't expect others to feel the same, and I won't post condescending appraisals of Treo users who don't share my enthusiasm over Python about how they Don't Get It.

    Since I'm sure that my interest in WiFi for the Treo will yet again be wilfully ignored, and I will be treated to yet another post on how I, like a critic of Werner Erhard, Don't Get It, I suggest we put a rest to this cycle of indignation over the nonexistent argument that WiFi is irrelevant. Some people want it more than others, that's the long and short of it. I'll get a WiFi card, just like you, if and when it's released.
  2. #62  
    Originally posted by epoints
    Wi-fi is going to be a key to Treo's success over other PDAs. Not having it will cribble Treo 600 in comparison with others.

    That's the most fevered nonsense I've read here in a while. The Treo 600 is a PDA-phone and will succeed or fail depending on whether or not people think it's worth $250 - $600 for a well-integrated combination. Wi-Fi is a factor for a ridiculously small number of potential phone buyers (what - maybe 1000 people?) at this point in time. Show me another phone with PalmOS, color screen, keyboard, one-handed navigation, small size, expandable memory, wireless email, wireless web, wireless SMS and reasonable cost that's available today. There is NO competition for the Treo 600 right now. You may want it to have every conceivable feature, but try to understand why that's not realistic. Bluetooth would have made a much more intelligent addition for Handspring to have made.
  3. #63  
    'Twas the night before operation red dawn,
    when all through the hole,
    Not a creature was stirring, not even a mole,
    The stockings were hung by the breathing tube with care,
    In hopes, the 4th Infantry would NOT soon be there...

    Hey, I don't know what's worse, being tried for crimes of humanity or not having wi-fi on my treo. Ever try to get provisioned by Sprint 6 feet underground?

  4. skidoo's Avatar
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    #64  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    'Twas the night before operation red dawn,
    when all through the hole,
    Not a creature was stirring, not even a mole,
    The stockings were hung by the breathing tube with care,
    In hopes, the 4th Infantry would NOT soon be there...

    Hey, I don't know what's worse, being tried for crimes of humanity or not having wi-fi on my treo. Ever try to get provisioned by Sprint 6 feet underground?

    Hahahaha. Yeah, just to clarify my position (so no one misunderstands and tries to put me on trial for crimes against cellmanity):

    1. WiFi is not an "insignificant" capability for a handheld device.

    BUT...

    2. It's nothing but histrionics to suggest that the lack of WiFi ruins the 600's prospects in the marketplace. Hogwash.
  5. #65  
    Originally posted by skidoo
    2. It's nothing but histrionics to suggest that the lack of WiFi ruins the 600's prospects in the marketplace. Hogwash.
    I think that nearly everyone agrees with that. Only a couple of other people have said otherwise. I can't really think of a phone with wi-fi, and cell phone sales seem to be doing okay.

    So let's get back to the fact at "Hand." Handspring promised that nothing would prevent it from doing wi-fi and that it would depend to 3rd party developers to make it. This is apparently not the case.

    Learning that the SD slot is only partially capable sounds to me to be similar to learning that the Treo 600 would only run 50% of Palm the OS 5 applications. This would be inacceptable and it should be to you, whether the lack of wi-fi (or those applications) is important to you or not.
  6. #66  
    Disappointing announcement. Whether or not anyone *currently* uses WiFi, the technology stands on the brink of exploding even faster than its already rapid adoption rate. Newer laptop CPU's are are now shipping with WiFi chips built-in - making every laptop manufactured automatically WiFi capable. Part of the reason to spend $600 on a PDA with full keyboard like the Treo is so that you don't have to lug around a 7lb laptop. Not having WiFi capabilities in an increasingly-WiFi'ed environment impedes this goal.

    Moreover, 2 things bother me about this announcement:

    1) The Treo is the first device I've seen which has the potential to be geniunely UNIVERSAL communicator - communicating across all major communication protocols at once. Perhaps this may not seem necessary at present, but neither did Bluetooth when Apple's laptops started shipping with it. Yet < 1 year later and you've got innovative software developers releasing programs that can, say, automatically detect your presence in a room and trigger any function on your computer (ie: play music, check email, etc), allow BT phones to act as remote slide show/DVD remotes, and much more.

    Sometimes we don't know what uses a technology can have until we actually have it working and available to us.

    2) WiFi capability paves the road for significant enhancement to the ways we currently do things on our PDA - such as quick printing of any network printer, automatic image/file sharing from/to any networked computer, and/or "real" media streaming.

    And best of all, for those of us who would use the Treo as our primary phone the availability of a data connection over WiFi doesn't tie up the voice line, right!

  7. #67  
    it should be "crimes against humanity"

    BTW, I'm looking for a broken T600. I had to leave my spider hole in a hurry and I lost my friend's treo. I'm going to send it back to Sprint and ask for a replacement that I can give to him. Can I buy one on Ebay? I have $750,000 in cash.

    Myself, I'm waiting for a decent Wanda device, where the wi-fi isn't added on as an afterthought. Who's to say that even if the SDIO card was workable for the Treo, it would work WELL.
  8. #68  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    That's the most fevered nonsense I've read here in a while. .....Show me another phone with PalmOS, color screen, keyboard, one-handed navigation, small size, expandable memory, wireless email, wireless web, wireless SMS and reasonable cost that's available today....
    Okay, just to shove it down your throat as you have asked.

    http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7100...one_series.htm

    It's palm OS, color, touch-screen keyboard, one hand nav, expasnsion, email, web, sms... lower cost, OH! BTW, it has bluetooh....

    Please look beyond the tree and some day you will arrive at the forest. We are here to discuss about technology and try to learn.

    And please be kind about your comment. As I have not sent anything personal to attack you.... I don't even know you, so if you don't like to hear this topic or my comment, start your own thread or private discussion group.
  9. #69  
    Originally posted by epoints


    Okay, just to shove it down your throat as you have asked.

    http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7100...one_series.htm

    It's palm OS, color, touch-screen keyboard, one hand nav, expasnsion, email, web, sms... lower cost, OH! BTW, it has bluetooh....

    OK, just to shove it back at you...

    -Palm OS 4.1, not 5.0

    -33MHz D-Ball, not 144MHz ARM

    -"Phone-first" design, with dialpad rather than QWERTY keyboard (which some may find preferable)

    -SD slot, not SDIO (although that's now the $600 question for the T600, isn't it?)

    -Bluetooth?? I think not! (Read the specs on the page you linked to...)

    In fairness, the KC7135 is a fine product, and I seriously considered going with it during this last upgrade cycle, but judged the T600 to be superior in many respects.

    The issue here is not that wi-fi will be the life or death of the T600 in today's market--at the moment, it is an unrivalled convergence device. BUT--the next manufacturer that squeezes all the same features into a device, but throws in wi-fi or an unfettered SDIO slot won't just be a "me-too," they'll have bested HS at their own game.

    It also doesn't help that, as mentioned above, HS explicitly led T600 purchasers to believe the SDIO slot was the "real McCoy"--if it proves otherwise, HS has left the door open for a class-action lawsuit!
  10. #70  
    Can we keep this topic on track about the Treo 600 and wi-fi?
  11. #71  
    You know, how do we really know that Handspring "lied to us"? We are quick to point the finger at them but is the SDIO slot really out of spec? I'm sure that the Treo meets the minimum requirements for power for the SDslot, but is there an established maximum amount of power that should be supplied by the slot? If so, does the Sandisk card meet or exceed that maximum? It's entirely possible that the treo meets what Handspring determined to be the specification, while at the same time not being sufficient to run the sandisk card.
  12. #72  
    Originally posted by ewokninja
    You know, how do we really know that Handspring "lied to us"? We are quick to point the finger at them but is the SDIO slot really out of spec? I'm sure that the Treo meets the minimum requirements for power for the SDslot, but is there an established maximum amount of power that should be supplied by the slot? If so, does the Sandisk card meet or exceed that maximum? It's entirely possible that the treo meets what Handspring determined to be the specification, while at the same time not being sufficient to run the sandisk card.
    I only said that if the report is true (and it may not be) then Handspring or SanDisk is lying. Someone already brought up it could be a case of bad engineering at SanDisk. It could very well be true. It seems that SanDisk is saying there isn't enough power from the slot and Handspring says that the slot has sufficient power to support wi-fi.

    Now speculating here, who would have more reason to lie? I honestly don't think it's SanDisk on this one, because their product does work in PocketPCs. They'd have no reason to not write drivers for Palm and make more sales. Handspring would possibly lie because it would sell more Treo 600s. I'm not saying which happened, I have no way of knowing that. I only speculate on likelihood in my opinion.
  13. #73  
    See, I would have gone another way with that information. Handspring built what they felt at the time was a fully functional SDIO slot, so it was easy for them to say that it would work with any SDIO card out there and if it was a WiFi card, well then, it should work with that as well.

    Now Sandisk comes along and designs their SDIO WiFI card, they have it working on the pocketpcs because they are able to provide enough power to drive it, but they can't get the power consumption to work with the treo. So they put out a statement saying that it will not work on the treo. If you read the statement the do not say that the Treo doesn't meet the SDIO specs and in fact go out of their way to say that such needs were not part of the design requirements.

    I still think that eventually the Treo 600 can still be used with a wi-fi card, just not *this* wi-fi card.
  14. #74  
    Originally posted by epoints


    Okay, just to shove it down your throat as you have asked.

    http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/7100...one_series.htm

    It's palm OS, color, touch-screen keyboard, one hand nav, expasnsion, email, web, sms... lower cost, OH! BTW, it has bluetooh....

    Please look beyond the tree and some day you will arrive at the forest. We are here to discuss about technology and try to learn.

    And please be kind about your comment. As I have not sent anything personal to attack you.... I don't even know you, so if you don't like to hear this topic or my comment, start your own thread or private discussion group.

    Next time you attempt a smart-*** reply, at least have the intelligence to be right about what you're saying. If you really think the Kyocera is better PDA-phone design than the Treo 600, you really are clueless. I'd suggest you actually read the specs of the Kyocera (or better yet take a look at one in person) before you embarass yourself further.

    For starters the Kyo has a prehistoric 33 MHz DragonBall processor, no keyboard, only 16 MB RAM, shorter talk/standby time, heavier weight and limited navigation abilities without a stylus. Better luck next time, buddy.
  15. #75  
    Originally posted by ewokninja
    See, I would have gone another way with that information. Handspring built what they felt at the time was a fully functional SDIO slot, so it was easy for them to say that it would work with any SDIO card out there and if it was a WiFi card, well then, it should work with that as well.

    Now Sandisk comes along and designs their SDIO WiFI card, they have it working on the pocketpcs because they are able to provide enough power to drive it, but they can't get the power consumption to work with the treo. So they put out a statement saying that it will not work on the treo. If you read the statement the do not say that the Treo doesn't meet the SDIO specs and in fact go out of their way to say that such needs were not part of the design requirements.

    I still think that eventually the Treo 600 can still be used with a wi-fi card, just not *this* wi-fi card.
    Do you know if Socket.com's wifi card same as SanDisk's?
  16. #76  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    Next time you attempt a smart-*** reply, at least have the intelligence to be right about what you're saying. If you really think the Kyocera is better PDA-phone design than the Treo 600, you really are clueless. I'd suggest you actually read the specs of the Kyocera (or better yet take a look at one in person) before you embarass yourself further.

    For starters the Kyo has a prehistoric 33 MHz DragonBall processor, no keyboard, only 16 MB RAM, shorter talk/standby time, heavier weight and limited navigation abilities without a stylus. Better luck next time, buddy.
    If you would have read your own posting carefully,

    .....Show me another phone with PalmOS, color screen, keyboard, one-handed navigation, small size, expandable memory, wireless email, wireless web, wireless SMS and reasonable cost that's available today...

    What I have suggested (Kyocera) met all your requirements. A better PDA phone was not part of your posting.... Sure, I agree Treo600 is a better PDA-phone, not a better phone-PDA. That's why I bought one.

    In the spirit of the original posting, I am suggesting wi-fi capability could help Treo surpass other PDA phones (Pocket PC).

    And can you stop calling peopole name? Even if what I said is does not sit well with you, it is my opinion. I don't go around and calling people stupid when I don't agree with their postings.

    Learn something from life...play golf.
  17. #77  
    I had a quote earlier (page 3 of this thread I think) in which Handspring references SanDisk's wi-fi, so they must have known it exists and could have guessed that it would require similar power to the same one for the PocketPC. After all it's the same card. There might not be a required power requirement for the SDIO spec, so that might be SanDisk didn't say anything about it other than many Palm devices don't have enough power to do it.

    Keep in mind, I don't think anyone said that it doesn't match the SDIO spec. If so they probably weren't certain about the SDIO specs and just guessing. What I'm thinking is, if this is true, that all wi-fi cards may require more power than the Treo SDIO slot has.

    The worst part of this is that it seems like something that could have been avoided. Why not make it support super high levels of power? When a lower power card like memory was put in it just wouldn't draw the full amount of power.
  18. #78  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland

    -- Umm, it was advertised to be SD I/O compatible. So therefore it can run the SanDisk card? No, hence it's not what's advertised.
    I'm fairly certain that the Treo meets the minimum requirements for the SDIO spec. The question now, is how far above that should they have reasonably expected to go? Power is a very big deal in small devices like this. It's not quite as simple as installing the "super high level power" slot.

    Handspring had to make some design decisions as to the maximum power output of the slot way before the Sandisk card came out and even if they were aware that such a card was coming out, It's entirely possibly that they didn't know at *that* time that the card would draw as much power as it is now.
  19. #79  
    Originally posted by epoints


    If you would have read your own posting carefully,

    .....Show me another phone with PalmOS, color screen, keyboard, one-handed navigation, small size, expandable memory, wireless email, wireless web, wireless SMS and reasonable cost that's available today...

    What I have suggested (Kyocera) met all your requirements.
    Where's the keyboard on that Kyocera? Oh wait a minute...there isn't one. Pick up your consolation prize on the way out.
  20. skidoo's Avatar
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    #80  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra


    Where's the keyboard on that Kyocera? Oh wait a minute...there isn't one. Pick up your consolation prize on the way out.
    I'll reply for him: There's an on-screen keyboard! Bwahahahahahahaha! Yeah, umm, nearly the same thing right?? Bwahahahahaha!
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