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  1. #41  
    Maybe the wifi card is just poorly engineered? Not only is it drawing a lot of power, but it is also has poor performance. Maybe the problem is not with the treo but with Sandisk?
  2. #42  
    My Harley was a compromise too, I Can't carry Groceries on the Back But I've Learned to Deal with it. It does what it was advertised to to Perfectly Just Like the T600.
  3. #43  
    KKenna wrote:
    You that don't see a need for increased bandwidth on your Treo must be those "inside the box" types.


    Your condescension ignores that fact that everyone on this thread acknowledges the benefits of WiFi, but without reframing benefits as needs or making desperate recourse to hoary corporate creativity clichés about "the box." All that's been said by those not expressing sufficient anxiety over Brighthand's "news" is that the presumed lack of imminent WiFi is disappointing, not catastrophic. Produce an affordable WiFi SD card, and I'll buy it in a heartbeat. Meanwhile, I'm not losing any sleep over this, and neither are most Treo users.
  4. #44  
    epoints wrote:
    I think Wifi is far more popular than treo's features/function combined.


    True enough for laptop usage, but not handhelds. I've only seen one person try to tap Ethernet with a PDA: a guy I was talking to at Starbuck's who spent 20 minutes trying to configure a connection on his iPaq. This guy was a former Novell developer and the author of xTree, a popular DOS shell back in the day, so we can imagine what the experience would be like for Joe Sixpack. But the point is: one guy. For the rest of the world, WiFi = internet on the laptop.

    Still, international VoIP would kick @ss, and non-Sprint users forced to pay a ransom for GPRS deserve better, so I do hope that a WiFi card is released sooner rather than later.
  5.    #45  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70
    epoints wrote:
    I think Wifi is far more popular than treo's features/function combined.


    True enough for laptop usage, but not handhelds. I've only seen one person try to tap Ethernet with a PDA: a guy I was talking to at Starbuck's who spent 20 minutes trying to configure a connection on his iPaq. This guy was a former Novell developer and the author of xTree, a popular DOS shell back in the day, so we can imagine what the experience would be like for Joe Sixpack. But the point is: one guy. For the rest of the world, WiFi = internet on the laptop...
    I totally disagree with this assestment. For example there are Univeristy hospitals with whole fleets of docs, nurses, med students etc carrying around Tungsten C's connected to huge wifi clouds. This same senario is being repeated in almost every major unveristy campus, hospital, airport and public metropolitan setting etc all across the US. There is definitely a demand and market for wifi connectivity on handheld devices. Equating wifi to just laptops is very narrow and short sighted appraisal imo...
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  6. #46  
    lack of wifi for me is a major issue, I bought the trep 600 pretty mch for this purpose.

    this is a major bummer.

    my kingdom for a wifi solution.

    Cheers,
    Dean
  7. skidoo's Avatar
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    #47  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic
    I totally disagree with this assestment. For example there are Univeristy hospitals with whole fleets of docs, nurses, med students etc carrying around Tungsten C's connected to huge wifi clouds. This same senario is being repeated in almost every major unveristy campus, hospital, airport and public metropolitan setting etc all across the US. There is definitely a demand and market for wifi connectivity on handheld devices. Equating wifi to just laptops is very narrow and short sighted appraisal imo...
    Yeah, lack of WiFi is not a deal killer for me in the case of the Treo, but anmyone who doesn't see the tremendous utility of WiFi in handheld computers doesn't seem to really understand the technology. gfunk cited a good example in healthcare professionals. Another is vehicle fleet management at large distribution operations. WiFi is an essential component of a set of truly "killer apps" for handheld devices.
  8. #48  
    my point exactly, wifi is here now and today, this is a real problem should handspring not have designed sdio properly.
  9. #49  
    Originally posted by deanc
    this is a real problem
    ...that can be solved in future upgrades to the device. Gfunk's original point was that the current Treo 600s won't be able to use this new solution. WIFI would be cool if it was affordable and available ...but mostly if it was available. Short of that ...um?
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    #50  
    Originally posted by snerdy

    ...that can be solved in future upgrades to the device. Gfunk's original point was that the current Treo 600s won't be able to use this new solution. WIFI would be cool if it was affordable and available ...but mostly if it was available. Short of that ...um?
    It all depends on the level of ubiquity Handspring (PalmOne now) is trying to achieve. If they were going after the business market (e.g. logistics and healthcare), they've fallen a card short of a full deck without including WiFi support (even if only through an expansion option). Because in those environments, WiFi is everywhere, and extremely inexpensive.

    But while in my cul-de-sac (in Richmond, Virginia; not San Jose, California) WiFi is everywhere, and extrememly inexpensive, no one in their right minds (in my humble opinion) would pick another otherwise inferior device over the 600 because it lacks current support for WiFi. That's why when you buy a device like the 600, you always get the trade-up insurance plan!
  11. #51  
    "For example there are Univeristy hospitals with whole fleets of docs, nurses, med students etc carrying around Tungsten C's connected to huge wifi clouds. This same senario is being repeated in almost every major unveristy campus, hospital, airport and public metropolitan setting etc all across the US. There is definitely a demand and market for wifi connectivity on handheld devices. Equating wifi to just laptops is very narrow and short sighted appraisal imo..."

    What you or I think is less important than what the perceived mass market thinks. Your examples in the vertical market are anectdotal, not statistical (even when sprinkled with unqualified phrases like "almost every . . ."). There's a huge difference between reading an article on the successful use of handelds at St. Mary's Hospital (going on to mention some other hospitals doing the same) and reading a Gartner report that 17 percent of hospitals deploy handhelds to tap Ethernet. If the latter were true, WiFi would become a priority overnight.

    I can't seem to emphasize enough that I don't disagree about the usefulness of WiFi. I simply refuse to be a Cassandra about the commercial fate of a sans-WiFi Treo based on speculation. Besides, this is more of a sooner-or-later issue than a now-or-never one. Let's keep this in perspective.
  12. mgauss's Avatar
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    #52  
    In a way this problem is a blessing.

    Like Donna said something like ...the Treo 600 is an interim device, the best available now, but there is no doubt it will improve and other features will be incorporated into it in the future...

    This pushes the need for the Treo 700, which will have a hi res, wifi, bluetooth, recorder, etc.

    Plenty of small devices have hi-res screens, BT and Wifi, so technically it is doable!

    The Treo 700 will be like a Boeing 707. The Treo 600 is like a DC-3. There were great improvements in travel from a DC-3 to a 707. But the difference between a 707 and a 747 is really not that great from the traveler's perspective. (Unless one is of course in the First Class Lounge upstair$!)
  13. #53  
    Actually maybe it'll be the Treo 900 Treo 300 ---> Treo 600......
    If God brought you to it He'll bring you thru it!
  14. #54  
    I think this is a huge deal.

    Some quotes from this thread and rebuttals. It's going to be a long post, sorry folks...

    "doesn't really matter, when you've got a data plan you don't even need WiFi."

    -- Wifi is much faster allowing things like better streamming audio and VoIP. Streaming video becomes a possibily.

    "I can imagine doing it on my Treo. Hm. Nope, dont like it. Rather do it on my iPaq like I already do."

    -- I'd rather not buy a iPaq and carry it around with me. Keeping it sync'd with the Treo is another pain.

    "No wi-fi, no big deal. No bluetooth, that would be awful."

    -- Still can't figure out what I'd use bluetooth for. Perhaps a headset, but they make other wireless headsets. Plus the wireless headsets generally don't have two headphones for listening to music.

    "Never buy something for possible future capability because 90% of the time it will never happen."

    -- In some cases that's true, but you expect that if you have an SD slot, SD accessories will work. People were told it was a matter of writing a small amount of software that was in the process of being written. And we aren't just talking about something that is Treo specific, this affects every Palm device available to our knowledge. People had reason to believe that this was 95% going to happen.

    "We'll get other features with our next device, be it a Treo 900 or some competitor's device."

    -- Wasn't the point of the expansion slot to be able to add features? I knew going into the purchase of the Treo that I was going to have the 160x160 screen for sometime. Seems silly that in two years when I'm still using my Treo 600 that Wi-fi will have been in PDAs for like 4 years and I won't have it. The quote assumes that everyone upgrades instantly which is not the case.

    "Since Sprint has unlimited data for $10/$15 this is almost a non issue if you're wiling to deal with the slower speeds."

    -- Umm, yeah the slower speeds are precisely the point for some people.

    "I'm sorry that gfunk won't be able to do his nifty VoIP, but there are presumably other solutions if he wants to pursue them."

    -- I'd like to hear suggestions. Keep in mind that such suggestions should be limited to use the Treo 600 in some way, because the point of a converged device is to not have to carry another device. So if your solution was to get an iPaq with wi-fi for an additional $500, that's not really one.

    "Handspring created a phone that they felt targets the largest audience."

    -- How much more work would it have been to make it compatible? We aren't talking built in wi-fi for all or anything like that, but just the ability to use the expansion slot for cards intended for it (i.e. I expect SD cards to work in the SD slot, don't think that's a stretch).

    "Anyway, you're conflating two seperate issues being discussed: whether or not the presumed lack of WiFi is a Bad Thing, and whether or not this would be the death knell of the Treo. No one here disagrees that not having WiFi is worse than having it. It's just that most people's decision to purchase the Treo wasn't predicated on WiFi capability."

    -- Probably the smartest thing said. I don't think anyone is really saying it's the death knell as it's still great at what it does. I would say that expansion was a reason why I upgraded. Storing music and using Wifi are probably the only two expansions I can currently see useful to me.

    "By the time WiFi usage is widespread, the next Treo (or a device like it) will probably be out."

    -- Wifi is wide spread nearly whereever I go. My roommates laptop can connect nearly everywhere now.

    "It [a Harley] does what it was advertised to to Perfectly Just Like the T600."

    -- Umm, it was advertised to be SD I/O compatible. So therefore it can run the SanDisk card? No, hence it's not what's advertised.

    "All that's been said by those not expressing sufficient anxiety over Brighthand's "news" is that the presumed lack of imminent WiFi is disappointing, not catastrophic. Produce an affordable WiFi SD card, and I'll buy it in a heartbeat"

    -- The SanDisk card is pretty affordable as far as expansion cards go. I'd say that many people on this board wouldn't even say that disappointing. Many people seem to downplay it like a non-event.

    "I've only seen one person try to tap Ethernet with a PDA... For the rest of the world, WiFi = internet on the laptop."

    -- I live with one guy that does it. Perhaps the reason the rest of the world doesn't do it is because it used to (and maybe still does) cost $500-600 for an iPaq with wi-fi. That's not something your average Joe is going to spend. However if you have the phone already and it's another $125 (or less as prices go down) you'll see more of it. Also let's take a stab that you won't need to be a Novell engineer to make it work.

    "...that can be solved in future upgrades to the device. Gfunk's original point was that the current Treo 600s won't be able to use this new solution."

    -- Umm, so they will upgrade the Treo in my hand to work? Interesting trick. As for future Treo's, well they might have wi-fi built in so, that really sidesteps the problem.

    "Besides, this is more of a sooner-or-later issue than a now-or-never one."

    -- Sooner or later the Treo 600 that I hold in my hand now will have wi-fi? I believe that's missing the whole point of the discussion. It seems like it might be a "never" for the device that Treo 600 I have.

    For the numerous people that suggested that's why people upgrade, I answer with, that's why there is an expansion slot. Upgrading for a more powerful SD I/O slot makes for a pretty crappy upgrade, especially when I thought I had that when I bought the Treo 600.
  15. #55  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    Umm, so they will upgrade the Treo in my hand to work? Interesting trick. As for future Treo's, well they might have wi-fi built in so, that really sidesteps the problem.
    No, that doesn't sidestep the problem.

    What is this, you want to pick an argument with the entire Internet at large? Well, good luck to you, pal.

    Your Treo is srewed. Sorry, buddy. You're out of luck. Upgrade is gonna cost you (and me) an entire new Treo, whether that be a 700, 600 or 9000. G'bye now.
  16.    #56  
    Originally posted by snerdy


    Your Treo is srewed. Sorry, buddy. You're out of luck. Upgrade is gonna cost you (and me) an entire new Treo, whether that be a 700, 600 or 9000. G'bye now.
    *sigh* For goodness sakes, THAT"S THE WHOLE POINT! I find it intolerable that my SDIO capable Treo600 cannot use the SDIO peripherals I had presumed would work when I purchased it. I don't care if its PalmOne's fault or Sandisk's fault or whoever, but the fact remains that the ability to upgrade functionality (be it wireless or whatever) has been significantly muted as a result of this design deficiency. And since we're talking about, where the heck are all the supposed SDIO peripherals anyway? Let's take a quick stock of the current situtuation:

    WiFi SD card: NOT COMPATIBLE

    BT SD card: DOES NOT EXIST

    Future 256 MB+wifi SD card: most likely NOT compatible for same reason

    FM radio SD card: NOT compatible b/c of antenna

    PalmOne 1.3 MP SD camera: NOT compatible b/c of antenna

    So what do we got? I was hoping for a bit more options than just the iGolf gps card and storage...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 12/14/2003 at 03:27 AM.
    _________________
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  17.    #57  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70

    What you or I think is less important than what the perceived mass market thinks. Your examples in the vertical market are anectdotal, not statistical (even when sprinkled with unqualified phrases like "almost every . . ."). There's a huge difference between reading an article on the successful use of handelds at St. Mary's Hospital (going on to mention some other hospitals doing the same) and reading a Gartner report that 17 percent of hospitals deploy handhelds to tap Ethernet. If the latter were true, WiFi would become a priority overnight.
    So let me get this straight, are you actaully trying to argue that the growth of wifi connectivity is simply anectdotal and not real?! Also for the record, my observatons are anecdotal but are also based on personal experiences from the hospital in which I work in every day which I'm sure is representative of many medical institutions across the country. Anyway, if you want market research to prove the ubiquity of wifi, just do a google news search and I'm sure you'll find all the evidence you need. Better yet, maybe you should contact Palmone, HP, Sony, Dell, Toshiba, Fujitsu, RIM, Mitac, TI, etc and find out directly from them why they have all released or announced wifi enabled handhelds and whether the market for these device actually exists.


    I can't seem to emphasize enough that I don't disagree about the usefulness of WiFi. I simply refuse to be a Cassandra about the commercial fate of a sans-WiFi Treo based on speculation. Besides, this is more of a sooner-or-later issue than a now-or-never one. Let's keep this in perspective.
    Well, at least I do agree with the first part of your statement. However, IMO its more than just about sooner-or-later but also misrepresentation of the upgradeability of the Treo600. I believe most all of us assumed that the Treo600 SDIO slot was capable of using these peripherals, but now it's determinied that may not be true at all. Apparently for current Treo600 users, there may never be a "sooner" which is extremely aggravating for a $600 device especially when competitve machines will probably offer this functionality...
    _________________
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  18. #58  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic
    I had presumed would work
    Well heck, guy -- I guess they didn't know what you were thinking. Shame on them.

    What if they don't just upgrade SDIO? What if they come up with something <gasp!> entirely new! Then you'll be totally screwed, won't you?

    This uber-powered WIFI SDIO card concept is, let me just see if I have this correct here ...yes, it's new! Newer than your freakin' Treo Six Bazillion, newer than ...what the heck is newer than that? I don't know! It's ...it's ...newer than uber-powered WIFI SDIO cards, for crying out loud. New, new, new! Get. The. Heck. Over. It.

    Welcome to your new Treo, which you (apparently) will be buying so you can use this exciting WIFI connectivity. Bleed, baby, bleed -- this is the edge you're on.

    P.S. Oh, wait -- let me just respond to your boring, boring overused yawn emoticon: DIE! (How's that?)
  19. #59  
    (deleted)
  20. #60  
    For what's it worth, if this power consumption issue is the case, Handspring has lied to us.

    http://support.handspring.com/esuppo...olutionId=9169

    "There is nothing about the Treo 600 that would prevent its being used with a compatible Bluetooth or 802.11 expansion card..."

    "[The availability of a wi-fi SD card] depends on the market space, and third-party companies' willingness to invest in developing such a product."

    It seems there is a third party company willing to invest in the product, but that isn't helping us.

    Also at the bottom of:

    http://support.handspring.com/esuppo...olutionId=8488

    "Note: There are currently no 802.11 SD cards available although we expect one to become available during 2003 from SanDisk. Please contact SanDisk for more information."
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