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  1. #21  
    From Danny Tu today:

    "We are currently working on improving 5-way support for Documents To Go... I don't have a time frame for you... we are working on it and we hope it will be a big improvement over the current implementation. I really appreciate your feedback and input, so keep 'em comin'!"

    So... send more emails, because as we all know, it doesn't take months to add code to support the 5Way in text fields. A couple of days, it seems should do it. They are just not motivated to move on this. Email Danny Tu at: DTu@dataviz.com
  2. #22  
    I have some good news that relates to this thread. I received e-mails from DataViz today that new versions of both Beyond Contacts and Inbox To Go are out, and they both list Treo 600 5-way navigation support as one of their new features. I got the e-mails because I'm a registered user of both programs, but the new versions are also up on their Web site.

    I haven't had much time to test the new versions thoroughly, but my preliminary opinion after a quick glance is that they are much improved over the previous versions. I was able to navigate the calendar and my e-mails without using the stylus, which was not possible with the previous versions.

    Back to the main topic, hopefully these releases indicate that the new version of DTG with Treo 600 support will be released soon as well.
  3. #23  
    I E-mailed Danny yesterday. Let's hope 5-way support for DTG comes soon. It would make DTG the best WP program for the Treo 600 by far.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by heberman
    I E-mailed Danny yesterday. Let's hope 5-way support for DTG comes soon. It would make DTG the best WP program for the Treo 600 by far.
    The ONLY one. Which is why we need to apply as much positive pressure as possible.
  5. #25  
    Treo Nav Set
    http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...=&prodID=52460

    available from PalmGear scrolls through documents.
    Laissez Faire
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by prubin
    Treo Nav Set
    http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...=&prodID=52460

    available from PalmGear scrolls through documents.
    And TNS works about everywhere on the Treo 600. But it doesn't touch the basic problem of text editing in DTG. That will require a SW update from DataViz. So email Danny Tu!
  7. #27  
    Our teamwork has produced results. Your emails have made a difference.

    Iíve heard back from Danny Tu and he has good news. A Treo 600 update is close at hand (no release quite yet)

    Danny asked me to give him feed back on their proposed Treo 600 5-Way indicators. (I've listed the DataViz 5-Ways moves below.) Post your suggestions, of course, but much, much better to email Danny with them. Also, keep in mind that these are just a first shot at this, so donít flame anyone if you think these bite. My main concerns are two: 1.) navigation indicators require (at the moment) use of two hands; 2.) Possible conflict with the TreoSelecText indicators. I have already raised these concerns to Danny and he is looking into it.


    Proposed 5-way indications for DTG (all press and holds)


    Navigation:

    * letter by letter = option+5-way left/right
    * line by line = option+5-way up/down

    Text Selection

    * by letter = shift+5-way left/right
    * by word = option+5-way left/right
    * by line = option+5-way up/down
  8. #28  
    FYI

    I just e-mail Danny on a related problem---Inbox To Go Wireless v2.503 (166) which was released (via an e-mail alert) several weeks ago. It indicated that one of the improvements was that it now worked with the 5-way Nav buttom on the Treo 600. Well the Nav button moves the cusor between the "New", "Delete" and "Check & Send" buttons and that's it.

    The Nav button doesn't move the cusor from the "To" field to the field below it or any other fields like "Subject" not the mention that you can't select an address from the drop down menu next to the "To" field. And you can't scroll up or down the e-mail body.

    I hope that the post above is some indication that help is on its way to Inbox as well as Docs to Go. But I was dissapointed.

    Good Luck
  9. #29  
    so maybe a treo friendly DTG is on its way...

    nice things happen when people work together...eh?

    elysian...thanks for getting this started.
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  10. #30  
    More from Danny Tu:

    Some miscommunications yesterday. Here's what it looks like now:

    Navigation:

    For word processing documents:

    Letter by letter = option + 5way left/right
    Line by line = option + 5way up/down

    For spreadsheets:

    Cell by cell = option or shift + 5way left/right/up/down

    -----------------------------

    Text Selection:

    For word processing documents ONLY:

    Letter by letter = shift + 5way left/right
    Line by line = shift + 5way up/down

    There is no implementation of the selection of text word by word.


    They are working to make TST compatible with DTG as well, or at least finding ways to avoid SW conflicts between TST and DTG 5-way support. DataViz now has a test copy of TST.

    I have some problems with the proposed support and have emailed my suggestions. I think it is best if we all speak in one voice so we get it right the first time. Let's get this together and email Dataviz with how we thnik it MUST be. Here's my reply.

    Here's the revelant correspondence:


    >Navigation:
    >
    >For word processing documents:
    >
    >Letter by letter = option + 5way left/right
    >Line by line = option + 5way up/down

    What happens with 5-way right/left/up down (no option key press)? The option key + 5-way is not intuitive on the Treo 600. I'd reverse what you indicated in the previous email. 5-way alone should navigate by letter (l/r) or by line (u/d). Adding the option key should navigate thus:

    Word by word= option + 5way left/right
    Screen by screen/page by page = option + 5way up/down

    This makes more sense on the Treo 600. Ideally, perhaps, you could have two methods of navigation (other rocker devices, e.g. T3, etc.) with a switch in user preferences. But if we are talking a Treo 600 specific update then my suggestions are much more intuitive on the hardware in question.


    >For spreadsheets:
    >
    >Cell by cell = option or shift + 5way left/right/up/down

    Meaning one could use either the option or the shift key? It would not matter which one? They both do the same thing? Why waste the function that way? Why not make the option key navigate the cells and the shift key navigate the text? That would be more intuitive on any device and be more consistent with WP documents.


    >Text Selection:
    >
    >For word processing documents ONLY:
    >
    >Letter by letter = shift + 5way left/right
    >Line by line = shift + 5way up/down

    This is nearly the same for TST 1.0 (current version). At the moment: word by word = shift + 5way left/right, but in 1.1 this will be a user preference (one will choose between letter by letter or word by word for the r/l presses. Again, I expect conflicts with TST and strongly recommend one of two things: 1) allowing TST and DTG to co-exist somehow, both functioning, or a user switch to shut off DTG navigation and allow TST to work. TST will recognize a text field that has Treo 600 5-way support. If you cannot 5-way press l/r/u/d and move the cursor TST will not work at all. It must see that functionality to function itself.
  11. #31  
    well that is good news. because quickword doesn't work with the 600 and it doesn't appear to be handle ms docs as fully as docs to go. and one annoying thing is that it autosaves by default. I want the option to confirm any changes. wordsmith is great because I can view and edit my memos there and most importantly-confirm changes before save. but it crashes my treo and does not support doc files to email out or the five way. I emailed them and they have no plans to fix this. and docs to go is great but I wish that they could have a full screen mode cuz the screens on these treos are getting smaller. anyway I hope one of these programs updates soon cuz I don't want all three friggin apps taking up space on my treo.
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by treoneo
    well that is good news. because quickword doesn't work with the 600 and it doesn't appear to be handle ms docs as fully as docs to go. and one annoying thing is that it autosaves by default. I want the option to confirm any changes. wordsmith is great because I can view and edit my memos there and most importantly-confirm changes before save. but it crashes my treo and does not support doc files to email out or the five way. I emailed them and they have no plans to fix this. and docs to go is great but I wish that they could have a full screen mode cuz the screens on these treos are getting smaller. anyway I hope one of these programs updates soon cuz I don't want all three friggin apps taking up space on my treo.
    Please send Danny Tu an email with your thoughts. It will help a lot! DTu@dataviz.com
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by elysian9
    More from Danny Tu:

    Some miscommunications yesterday. Here's what it looks like now:

    Navigation:

    For word processing documents:

    Letter by letter = option + 5way left/right
    Line by line = option + 5way up/down

    For spreadsheets:

    Cell by cell = option or shift + 5way left/right/up/down

    -----------------------------

    Text Selection:

    For word processing documents ONLY:

    Letter by letter = shift + 5way left/right
    Line by line = shift + 5way up/down

    There is no implementation of the selection of text word by word.


    They are working to make TST compatible with DTG as well, or at least finding ways to avoid SW conflicts between TST and DTG 5-way support. DataViz now has a test copy of TST.

    I have some problems with the proposed support and have emailed my suggestions. I think it is best if we all speak in one voice so we get it right the first time. Let's get this together and email Dataviz with how we thnik it MUST be. Here's my reply.

    Here's the revelant correspondence:


    >Navigation:
    >
    >For word processing documents:
    >
    >Letter by letter = option + 5way left/right
    >Line by line = option + 5way up/down

    What happens with 5-way right/left/up down (no option key press)? The option key + 5-way is not intuitive on the Treo 600. I'd reverse what you indicated in the previous email. 5-way alone should navigate by letter (l/r) or by line (u/d). Adding the option key should navigate thus:

    Word by word= option + 5way left/right
    Screen by screen/page by page = option + 5way up/down

    This makes more sense on the Treo 600. Ideally, perhaps, you could have two methods of navigation (other rocker devices, e.g. T3, etc.) with a switch in user preferences. But if we are talking a Treo 600 specific update then my suggestions are much more intuitive on the hardware in question.


    >For spreadsheets:
    >
    >Cell by cell = option or shift + 5way left/right/up/down

    Meaning one could use either the option or the shift key? It would not matter which one? They both do the same thing? Why waste the function that way? Why not make the option key navigate the cells and the shift key navigate the text? That would be more intuitive on any device and be more consistent with WP documents.


    >Text Selection:
    >
    >For word processing documents ONLY:
    >
    >Letter by letter = shift + 5way left/right
    >Line by line = shift + 5way up/down

    This is nearly the same for TST 1.0 (current version). At the moment: word by word = shift + 5way left/right, but in 1.1 this will be a user preference (one will choose between letter by letter or word by word for the r/l presses. Again, I expect conflicts with TST and strongly recommend one of two things: 1) allowing TST and DTG to co-exist somehow, both functioning, or a user switch to shut off DTG navigation and allow TST to work. TST will recognize a text field that has Treo 600 5-way support. If you cannot 5-way press l/r/u/d and move the cursor TST will not work at all. It must see that functionality to function itself.
    so how do we speak in one voice on this? not being able to select whole words is a problem. should we email danny tu now about this?
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by southbound747


    so how do we speak in one voice on this? not being able to select whole words is a problem. should we email danny tu now about this?
    What I meant by "speaking in one voice" was that we should have a consensus (even a small one) about what is best in terms of navigation and text selection, and then email DT with the same suggestions. This way he will hear the same suggestion and not many different suggestions, which will only encourage him to ignore us.

    The by-word text select gig is covered by TST, which they now have, and are working to make compatible in some way with DTG, either by allowing TST to function instead of DTG text selection (user preference) or by allowing both methods of text selection to co-exist somehow.

    One thing you could email DT right away about is to convince him to allow TST to function within DTG. And, if not, then to duplicate (or improve on) its functionality by including by-word selection, etc., in their own tool. What we do NOT want is a DTG text select function that is worse than TST. That could happen and they could 'lock out' TST by over-riding it with their own similar (key strokes), but less comprehensive, functionality.

    I received an email late today from DT, stating that he had sent my suggestions to his development team, who would 'consider' them. Also, I did my best to convince him to send me their test version, so I could be more specific in my comments on what was working well and what was not. He said he would look into that. We'll see. He also asked me for more feedback from you guys/gals, so please post it ASAP! This is real; we are going to get a Treo 600 DTG update, but not necessarily one with which we are happy, unless we pull together and make Dataviz heed our call.

    Remember, there is NO WP app out there with Treo 600 5-way support. It's up to us to make DTG 'right' or we may end up with a counter-intuitive update instead of one that feels native.
  15. #35  
    I e-mailed Danny Tu directly on Feb 10. This was just before your good idea posting of speaking with one voice, elysian9. However my e-mail was basically in agreement with what's evolved here.

    Any idea of release date for DTG Treo 600 5-way operations?
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by FuturePerfect
    I e-mailed Danny Tu directly on Feb 10. This was just before your good idea posting of speaking with one voice, elysian9. However my e-mail was basically in agreement with what's evolved here.

    Any idea of release date for DTG Treo 600 5-way operations?
    As soon as I know anything I will post it.
  17. #37  
    I am the only one that thinks that the Docs to Go Spreadsheet really suck? I like the word app though esp. with table support.
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by yardie
    I am the only one that thinks that the Docs to Go Spreadsheet really suck? I like the word app though esp. with table support.
    Love the SS or hate it, we still need 5W support for the WP.
  19. #39  
    Dataviz has sent me their new update for DTG to test on my Treo 600! There is good news and more than a few disappointments.

    Yes, there is now 5-Way support.

    Text navigation by screen is carried out by option+rocker-up/down. By line rocker-up/down. There is no navigation by word, though eventually that will likely be incorporated. This works in both WTG and STG.

    Text selection is carried out by shift+ rocker-left/right/up/down, just as in TST, EXCEPT right/left selects by character only. Up/down by line. This tool is not available in STG.

    The problems are:

    NAVIGATION

    WTG & STG

    1. Using option+rocker-down can eventually get you to the end or beginning of a screen page, but once you are there any rocker action (right/left/up/down) returns the view to the original cursor point from where you started the navigation. As such, it is only useful for reading and useless for editing. This is very problematic.

    2. Somewhat less problematic is that option+rocker-down/up navigate by screen usually works as intended, but depending on where the cursor is and other things I simply cannot pinpoint, the navigation will go by more than one screen, causing confusion regarding location. That said, the 5-way does indeed work.

    TEXT SELECTION

    1. Text selection will not work at all with TST enabled.
    2. Text selection is only one character at a time for left/right. No word at a time, which would be helpful.
    3. There is 5-Way support, but it is quite awkward at the moment. Cursor does not move smoothly and lags behind each press. Also, if you hold down the rocker or make multiple presses the cursor disappears and it is not possible to follow it until you stop pressing the rocker.

    Of course, all this has been communicated to Dataviz, who have been very responsive to my inquires. Many thanks to everyone here who helped by emailing Danny Tu.

    Also, do not email Danny Tu at this point. The release appears to be imminent and no changes are planned, even though I have lobbied very hard for a few. Please wait a bit. I do not want to jeopardize my/our good relationship with Dataviz. We need these guys, so be cool. I'll update this soon with any and all news.

    Please do not ask me to send you or post this test version as I am not legally permitted to do so and have been specifically instructed not to. However, do feel free to ask me questions if you're curious.

    One bright note on the (near) horizon is that RNS and Dataviz are currently trying to work something out regarding TST. No details yet.


  20. #40  
    a collaboration with RNS and dataviz...that sounds promising. i hope that bears some fruit.
    Sprint Treo 700p, Sony UX/TX, u720,
    Edirol R-09, Mitsu PK 20, Mimio
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