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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Addendum - just checked out Handspring's site. They changed the wording:

    == "...The Treo 600 smartphone is currently available with plans
    == from AT&T Wireless, Cingular Wireless and Sprint. We expect
    == to have service from and T-Mobile available soon. ..."

    -- http://www.handspring.com/products/c...overview.jhtml

    Note - yes, that's the way it is worded now, complete with superfluous "and" (as of the time of the posting of this addendum).

    =====

    A strange attempt to "hijack a thread" by the previous poster, IMHO - why? This T-Mobile news apparently is real and VERY important to those who want "T-Mobile TREO 600s" as well as those of us interested in the financial ramifications of such a move on a carrier's part - let's leave it on-topic.
    You know, NEVER in my WILDEST imagination did I EVER expect T-Mo to be last out of the box. Indeed, the HS dudes at Mission Possible always stressed T-Mo FIRST. It was, as you may recall, T-Mo coming out around the week of 10/13 and Cingular 10/20.

    And NEVER did HS ever intimate that their very first CGSM units would be in customer hands LATE in the week of 11/17.

    This order taking game is the ultimate dishonest move - they actually have the stones to position it as a positive development as opposed to what it really is - another delay. And we won't get into the knowing lies they push thru their CSRs about 2-3 weeks for ever and ever....

    And now, with Thanksgiving tomorrow, only a dribble of Cingular and AT&T units have slipped out and they aren't even taking orders yet.

    The real strory here if you ask me? One that they don't want to yell out to investors lest their new stock be hammered?

    They have missed the prime Christmas selling season for all but Sprint (and even the Sprint availability has its limits - see Amazon and it's 4-6 week lag).

    It makes my heart happy that this is happened - I wish only the worst for Palm as a company. They have abused customers greivously - even if the Treo circle jerkers won't face up to it.

    Reality time - rather than leading the pack, T-Mo units will trail the pack and probably won't be available (at least in a meaningful way) until 2004.

    At the end of the day the thing that frosts me the most is the abject fraud that has gone on vis a vis the T-Mo customer base.

    And that makes sense, if you ask me. Even with the focus on Sprint lately, there are prolly as many if not more T-Mo customers since T-Mo was always HS's lead carrier.

    With their shoestring marketing approach fundamentally based upon buzz and particularly buzz among early adopters (especially past HS customers), I suspect HS was in a quandry.

    They needed to get the T-Mo customers buzzing even though they knew they wouldn't be getting them product since they had burned T-Mo so badly in the past. So they were probably faced with what they thought was a terrible choice.

    Honestly tell one of your largest installed base (if not the largest) that they are going to be at the end of the line, which would dampen the buzz HS wanted, or lie to them.

    I think that they chose the lying path. Seems obvious to me.
  2. #22  
    I think you are grossly OVERestimating the T-Mobile involvement in the future of the TREO 600 - that letter from T-Mobile up there at the top of this thread and the fact that Handspring/palmOne changed the wording on their web site from something like:

    == "...TREO 600s are available from Sprint [et al]...and expected
    == soon from T-Mobile..."

    to

    == "...carrier plans are available from Sprint [et al]...and service
    == is expected soon from T-Mobile...."

    scream out to THIS reader that T-Mobile has given up on the TREO 600 for whatever reasons they have.

    Sure, they'll help you buy one sometime in the future but, as already noted elsewhere in this thread, this is essentially a "no thanks" from T-Mobile to palmOne - palmOne will be carrying ALL the inventory and essentially ALL the most-expensive support, thus risk.

    ===

    Is this all speculation? Of course it is - as is everything so far, pretty much, about T-Mobile's and palmOne's "relationship". Let's see how it plays out.
  3. #23  
    A lot of venom here, and I'm sure the Treo-lovers will roll their eyes to see me chime in here, but I just wanted to make a few comments...

    1) I think differing opinions are good. purpleX is another story. He's never owned a Treo and probably never will, so his participation here to spread FUD deserves to be banned, IMO. SeldomVisitor seems especially sour towards Handspring the company, which does raise legitimate concerns about his motives for participation here, so I'm still not sure how to filter his comments. zipmitz, like me, is a card-carrying Treo owner who loves the idea of a convergence device but is unhappy with Handspring's latest effort. I think these concerns need to be voiced in order to make this sort of product better.

    2) I previously suspected that palmOne was making a killing in profit on the sale of these things. After all, how can the components in these things really cost $300+ more to make than a Nokia 3650? I still think that's true, but based on the trickle manufacturing process which they seem to be employing, I suspect that these are definitely costing them more per unit than they would if the carriers loved them to death and ordered huge numbers of them. After doing that with the previous generation of Treos only to find themselves with tons of stock, I certainly can't blame them for switching gears on the Treo 600 release.

    3) As a consumer, getting palmOne to support these things instead of T-Mobile is a good thing. I'd rather deal with the company that made the product than some 16-year-old "tech" at the local cell phone shop. Is it a good thing from palmOne's perspective? No (see #2).

    4) I kind of like the idea of the trickle manufacturing process. Devices may be overpriced, but maybe it will mean that they'll be able to pump out new and improved or alternative designs in the Treo line at a faster pace. Wishful thinking perhaps.

    5) I'm not sure that the holiday shopping season is really a critical time for cell phone manufacturers. People don't really buy other people cell phones. You buy your own because you have to commit to a one-year contract. I'm just as likely to buy my own phone at any time of the year.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  4. #24  
    My motives are irrelevant - it's my posts that count. If you find a problem with my posts then point the problem out and I at least will debate whether it is incorrect or not - I am sour on palmOne (nee Handspring), however, for EXACTLY the type of things covered by this thread - palmOne touted T-Mobile as a "Strategic Carrier Partner" implying that palmOne would get oodles of bucks out of them. Then we find that it is QUITE likely that T-Mobile isn't going to buy ANY TREO 600s at all! - That's an excellent reason to be sour on the company and one that for sure interests me - one that I want to find out the truth about.

    And...

    If all this T-Mobile postulating is indeed true and if other carriers pick up on this, then palmOne will be VERY hard-pressed to continue making uber-expensive devices simply because they do not sell (this is a known fact - they're niche products] - palmOne had been expecting to sell big blocks to carriers and let the carriers handle all the expensive stuff - now it looks like T-Mobile has started to do JUST the opposite.

    Does it matter to an end-customer? - probably not a whole lot - once you've got a TREO 600 who CARES who supports it, etc, as long as it's supported.

    But it matters BIG TIME to investors in the company. And that's where my interests are.
  5. #25  
    Good points Scott.

    Though I am extremely disappointed with the way things have happened with the Treo 600 "release", I understand that these things sometimes happen. What I find absolutely UNACCEPTABLE is Jeff Hawkins and company's complete disregard to their loyal customer base.

    Many of us have supported Handspring since the very first Treos emerged onto the scene. We sat and listened intently during Mission Possible as they spouted off about this and that.

    I can't believe they have not made ANY effort to reach out to us and explain what happened. It's almost like they are too embarrased to own up to anything... like the guy in traffic that almost ran you off the road and is now too shameful to even make eye contact with you. A simple, "we apologize" would suffice.

    This concerns me. As a company, I think that this is very irresponsible of them. Looking back, I think JakeE was absolutely right when he said that they don't give a $hit about their customers. True, they don't OWE us anything. But even I would have the consideration to explain and apologize for my mistake. It's not just a good policy for business, it's a good policy for life. What gives??


    And when will T-Mobile be ready??
    RayUSA

    "The future will be better tomorrow."
    - Dan Quayle
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    A lot of venom here, and I'm sure the Treo-lovers will roll their eyes to see me chime in here, but I just wanted to make a few comments...

    1) I think differing opinions are good. purpleX is another story. He's never owned a Treo and probably never will, so his participation here to spread FUD deserves to be banned, IMO. SeldomVisitor seems especially sour towards Handspring the company, which does raise legitimate concerns about his motives for participation here, so I'm still not sure how to filter his comments. zipmitz, like me, is a card-carrying Treo owner who loves the idea of a convergence device but is unhappy with Handspring's latest effort. I think these concerns need to be voiced in order to make this sort of product better.

    2) I previously suspected that palmOne was making a killing in profit on the sale of these things. After all, how can the components in these things really cost $300+ more to make than a Nokia 3650? I still think that's true, but based on the trickle manufacturing process which they seem to be employing, I suspect that these are definitely costing them more per unit than they would if the carriers loved them to death and ordered huge numbers of them. After doing that with the previous generation of Treos only to find themselves with tons of stock, I certainly can't blame them for switching gears on the Treo 600 release.

    3) As a consumer, getting palmOne to support these things instead of T-Mobile is a good thing. I'd rather deal with the company that made the product than some 16-year-old "tech" at the local cell phone shop. Is it a good thing from palmOne's perspective? No (see #2).

    4) I kind of like the idea of the trickle manufacturing process. Devices may be overpriced, but maybe it will mean that they'll be able to pump out new and improved or alternative designs in the Treo line at a faster pace. Wishful thinking perhaps.

    5) I'm not sure that the holiday shopping season is really a critical time for cell phone manufacturers. People don't really buy other people cell phones. You buy your own because you have to commit to a one-year contract. I'm just as likely to buy my own phone at any time of the year.

    Scott
    For the record, let me thank you for your description. In these parts, unless you gush all over your Treo, you are a spy, a plant, the opposition. Not true.

    Having said that, I must say I too have a burning dislike of HS for their behavior.

    I think that HS has a lower profit margin because they simply can't buy parts or manufacturing runs in quantity. And I think that while smaller runs gets bug fixes sooner into the pipeline, the truth is it also creates problems with reliability.

    And they didn't change their tack - any change was forced on them due to their near bankrupt status.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by zipmitz

    Truthfully, I've NEVER ran into a company that had such a dreadful history rolling out products. Sure, other companies have their problems, no matter how deep their pockets. But with HS EVERY SINGLE wireless rollout has been BOTCHED to the max and you have to say that it's simply not an option to consider it coincidence.
    I have now purchased 4 products from Handspring: Visor Deluxe, Visor Prism, Treo 180, and Treo 600. Except for the 600, my recollection (which may be mistaken) is that each device was released when promised.


    It makes my heart happy that this is happened - I wish only the worst for Palm as a company.
    Wow, nice attitude to take into the holidays.
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by heberman


    I have now purchased 4 products from Handspring: Visor Deluxe, Visor Prism, Treo 180, and Treo 600. Except for the 600, my recollection (which may be mistaken) is that each device was released when promised.



    Wow, nice attitude to take into the holidays.
    I agree. Even though I see "some" truth to what he says, its mostly drowning in negativity. I am upset about what has happend, and a lot of people here agree with him.. but I wont share in his attitude. He thinks that everyone is just "in-love" with HS, and thats not the fact. We just don't see any point in slamming every single thread with the same crap.

    Even though HS has made many mistakes, I don't take it personally. Its busness. I hope the best for HS. I hope they get their act together and become a very successfully company as PalmOne. Why would someone wish harm on another?
  9. #29  
    Earlier in this thread someone said that they didn't think it would matter much whether they bought the 600 from HS or T-Mobile. However, this might impact insurance issues. When I bought a 180 and then a 270 from HS, I remember T-Mobile stating that they do not have any cellphone insurance for those phones. I recently remember someone posting here on treocentral that T-Mobile has a phone insurance deal for about $3.99/month that they believe applied to the Treo. But I'm betting it doesn't apply to a phone not bought FROM T-Mobile. Again, I don't know and don't have time to call T-Mobile and go through several levels of reps to find out, but I'm betting the answer will be no.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by NeoPhyte
    Earlier in this thread someone said that they didn't think it would matter much whether they bought the 600 from HS or T-Mobile. However, this might impact insurance issues. When I bought a 180 and then a 270 from HS, I remember T-Mobile stating that they do not have any cellphone insurance for those phones. I recently remember someone posting here on treocentral that T-Mobile has a phone insurance deal for about $3.99/month that they believe applied to the Treo. But I'm betting it doesn't apply to a phone not bought FROM T-Mobile. Again, I don't know and don't have time to call T-Mobile and go through several levels of reps to find out, but I'm betting the answer will be no.
    That's not true anymore. Previously, T-Mobile didn't offer any cellphone insurance. Now, I have my T600 (purchased from Handspring) insured by T-Mobile for $3.99/mo.
    Last edited by heberman; 11/26/2003 at 01:35 PM.
  11. #31  
    That's not true anymore. Previously, T-Mobile didn't offer any cellphone insurance. Now, I have my T600 (purchased from Handspring) insured by T-Mobile for $399/mo.
    $399/month? Yeah, that sounds about right!
    RayUSA

    "The future will be better tomorrow."
    - Dan Quayle
  12. #32  
    Oops! You replied before I fixed it.
  13. #33  
    I'm pleasantly surprised. But I'm also wondering how that would work if you were outside the usual return/warranty HS period and the Treo 600 broke. Since T-Mobile doesn't carry the Treo 600 (let's assume they never do), then how will your Treo be replaced (if it can't be fixed)? Will they just give you a credit toward one of their phones with the 600's replacement value? Sorry for the hypothetical questions. Jealous you got your 600. I'm still waiting on T-Mobile. Ho hum.
  14. #34  
    From what the Asurion representative told me:

    A phone that has been damaged and is claimed is replaced with a phone from T-Mobile stock. If a brand new, or refurbished model, is not available then a replacement phone that most closely matches the original handset's capabilities will be substituted.

    Which is why I haven't registered for the insurance service, yet. Basically, a Treo600 can't be replaced until the time T-Mobile stocks the Treo600.

    My guess, regarding T-Mo's current stock, for "most closely matching" the Treo600's functionality would be the Treo 270, T-Mobile (made by Siemens) Pocket PC phone, or the Sidekick.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by farzonalmaneih


    I agree. Even though I see "some" truth to what he says, its mostly drowning in negativity. I am upset about what has happend, and a lot of people here agree with him.. but I wont share in his attitude. He thinks that everyone is just "in-love" with HS, and thats not the fact. We just don't see any point in slamming every single thread with the same crap.

    Even though HS has made many mistakes, I don't take it personally. Its busness. I hope the best for HS. I hope they get their act together and become a very successfully company as PalmOne. Why would someone wish harm on another?
    You should take it personally.

    They targeted you. Personally.

    They knew:

    (a) They needed buzz because they were too broke for a real advertising campaign.

    (b) The people who needed to be "buzzed" were early adopters and more particularly, prior Treo owners.

    (c) They knew that one of their largest installed bases were T-Mo GSM customers.

    (d) They knew that T-Mo was equivocal regarding committing to the product and, as a result, that T-Mo GSM customers would likely be at the back of the line.

    (e) If they told T-Mo customers what to honestly expect, they wouldn't get the buzz they needed.

    So you were personally targeted in a very dishonest way.

    And THAT is why it's not wrong to wish harm on them. Because they surely knew they were harming you.

    Just my opinion. But it is a much more rational way to look at it than the Treo-huggers look at it.....
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    ...And THAT is why it's not wrong to wish harm on them. Because they surely knew they were harming you.

    Buddy, IT IS A P H O N E ! A little perspective is in order here.

    Let's get upset about something that really matters, like the economy, the war, or the environment (but not on these boards :-). Hold it together man!

    <end rant>
  17. #37  
    They can take our Treo... but they CAN'T TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!
    RayUSA

    "The future will be better tomorrow."
    - Dan Quayle
  18. #38  
    You know that's right, Ray!

    (good one, you got me there)
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    ...And THAT is why it's not wrong to wish harm on them. Because they surely knew they were harming you.

    Just my opinion. But it is a much more rational way to look at it than the Treo-huggers look at it.....
    First off, I'm not a treo-hugger. Looking forward to receiving mine (probably next week), but not a hugger. Yes, I have owned VisorPhone (ACK!), 180, and currently a 270, but that doesn't mean I "love" HS. Just that I've found their products, although not perfect, suitable to my needs.

    My lack of a 600 in my itchy hands does me no harm, however. HS "surely knew they were harming" me... I don't feel slighted at all, much less harmed. I will agree with you (and Seldom, for that matter) that HS could have handled this rollout better. But like many have stated on this forum (mostly in response to you), many companies have botched introduction of high-tech goodies. For the most part, the only ones "harmed" by this are early adopters, of which I am one. But the only way we are harmed is if we allow ourselves to feel that way. I don't. It's just a phone.

    As you stated, just my opinion. And just my rational way of looking at it.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by Clatu


    Buddy, IT IS A P H O N E ! A little perspective is in order here.

    Let's get upset about something that really matters, like the economy, the war, or the environment (but not on these boards :-). Hold it together man!

    <end rant>
    I don't think YOU believe it's just a phone. Because YOU are in the very small niche of people who are so committed to the "phone" that you are joining disussion boards and participating in discussions.

    If you really felt it was just a phone, you'd buy it, charge it up, read the manual while you waited and then forgot about the rest of the world.
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