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  1. #81  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Addendum - mention of T-Mobile has been removed from the "shipping and ordering" web page:

    -- http://www.handspring.com/support/sp...ping_msg.jhtml
    T-Mobile is no longer even worthy of propaganda.

    Of course, I do not want a T-Mobile phone but an unlocked phone. I am, and have been, prepared to pay a premium for that. According to your analysis, that makes me a non-customer.
    Last edited by whmurray; 11/24/2003 at 08:30 AM.
  2. #82  
    > ...However, it clashes with your argument that the problem is a
    > shortage of orders...

    Not at ALL!

    It has been my position since Day One that ONLY early-adopters will be buying this expensive toy - just as with the entire line of OTHER TREO models.

    If a "production run" is thousands in size and Handspring/palmOne can't afford to pay for even ONE production run without some guarantee that they're going to get their money back, then it makes INFINITE sense to wait until enough orders have been received from the small customer set that WILL buy this expensive toy.

    BTW - reread the two main posts in this thread I made - the lack of DELIVERY of TREO 600s could easily be due to the fact that Handspring/palmOne has to accumulate sufficient orders to justify buying another production run. The lack of T-Mobile (or any carrier) could easily be due to lack of certification - an entirely different problem.

    There is no inconsistency here.
  3. #83  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    > ...However, it clashes with your argument that the problem is a
    > shortage of orders...

    Not at ALL!

    It has been my position since Day One that ONLY early-adopters will be buying this expensive toy - just as with the entire line of OTHER TREO models.

    If a "production run" is thousands in size and Handspring/palmOne can't afford to pay for even ONE production run without some guarantee that they're going to get their money back, then it makes INFINITE sense to wait until enough orders have been received from the small customer set that WILL buy this expensive toy.

    BTW - reread the two main posts in this thread I made - the lack of DELIVERY of TREO 600s could easily be due to the fact that Handspring/palmOne has to accumulate sufficient orders to justify buying another production run. The lack of T-Mobile (or any carrier) could easily be due to lack of certification - an entirely different problem.

    There is no inconsistency here.
    alot of guessing ,aka purplex, and i might add wishfull thinking on your part, to say the least. face it, you can post for the next three weeks on this issue, and the one true fact that will remain, you don't know.

    the one thing i am confident about is that hs/palmone is not waiting to gather orders before producing more, how rediculous.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 11/24/2003 at 08:48 AM.
  4. #84  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    Here we are, NOVEMBER 22nd. The overwhelming percentage of you who wanted a Treo 600 STILL doesn't have one.

    You were baited with enticing Emails for MONTHS.

    The head of the company told the world that GSM handsets would be in your hands by the end of OCTOBER.

    You constantly heard it would ship in 2-3 weeks. And while the calendar marched on, 2-3 weeks stuck like tires in the red Alabama mud. CSRs had NO IDEA why you would believe what Donna Dubinsky said. Heck, they claimed they never heard it....

    HS announced the availablilty of Cingular phones when they weren't really available, taking orders. So even the GSM "launch" was not a launch. If HS was a girl, they'd be accused of being a "teaser". And I left a word out.....

    Those teased couldn't hold off. I would venture to guess that a HUGE percentage of Cinuglar pre-orders are for people who plan to use them on other systems. Clearly, that's a compromise brought on by disapointing performance by HS.

    Still, by the end of November, only a small little stream of units have dribbled out. If your order wasn't in with a flash, it's another 2-3 and in some cases FOUR weeks more of a wait.

    And where, oh where is T-Mobile?????

    To borrow a line from the Richard Dreyfuss character in Jaws, "This was NO boating accident. It was a shark attack".

    HS knew EXACTLY what they were doing. They KNEW they were lying to you about delivery dates. They knew they were whetting your appetite, freezing your purchase decisions only to keep you waiting. Nothing else makes sense.

    It's said that they had software issues slowing down the release of the GSM units. Well then riddle me this - once they solved that problem, why is it that they then have 2-3 week shipping delays???? Long after all CDMA issues were settled, once HS shot it's load with it's initial supply, we are in the same 2-3 week plus zone of people waiting and waiting and waiting. Now here comes the AT&T rollout and, well, there you go again. Not a single unit available till well into December. A Fall release? NOT!

    There is, of course, only one reason that explains all this.

    HS is probably on a short string with its suppliers and so it gets a shipment, sells it, collects money and re-orders. It seems to me painfully obvious that their credit was shot.

    Now with the Palm merger a month old, nothing has changed. No support by a stronger parent. Probably because Palm hasn't exactly set any profit records either.....

    All this hangs together with the design and quality issues. There's got to be a reason why over the years, Treo phones had extremely high failure rates, much of which are manufacturing issues. There is a reason why they left off important features, such as a decent screen (they did this after we ALL squawked about the compromised 270/300 screen), bluetooth and voice control/recording. They are busted., that's why. Busted people do desperate things....

    I have had both the P900 and the Treo now for more than a week.

    The manufacturing differences, the fit and feel is starkly apparent.
    The absence of a P900 keyboard bugs you? It shouldn't. T9 is great. And if it still bugs you, for a few bucks, you can add EZiTap, which is a predictive text program that is truly remarkable. Together with a much wider and natural keyboard, the P900 with EZiTap blows the doors off of the Treo 600 vis a vis data entry.

    The overwhelming share of people out there in the smartphone market are not WEDDED to PalmOS special apps. And most commercial PalmOS have comparable Symbian products.

    The HS people are horrible people, who have treated their most important customers like scrap. They've been dishonest and continue to play their games. I would not be surprised if they are taken over by someone else - that's likely your only salvation.

    My advice to you all - get out. Avoid Handpring/Palm. Buy someone else's product, because after suffering with VisorPhones, Treo 270s and now with my 600, I see that they are the same people, putting out the same slow release of a product that have high failure rates and whose designs, while good, should be better.
    1) I need an avocado to complete a guacamole recipe. The weekly flyer from my local grocery store screams that avocados are on sale. I drive down there to buy some, but they are out of them. I'm stuck as this is a needed critical ingredient to finish the preparartion of a meal. Do I spew venemous garbage at the store for being out of stock? No.

    2) After watching The Jetsons, I want a little space ship to commute in. I want to fly through the sky, and avoid the traffic on the ground. We've been promised this technology for years, yet the vast majority of us do not have it. Should I pull a verbal nutter and attack the companies that should have produced one by now? No.

    Your rants are tiresome, tedious, and redundant. Exercise your freedom of choice, and personally decide to not buy a HS product ever again. That's fine. The rest of us will carry on without you. If you have a problem with the company, deal with the company. Or write to your Congressman.

    Jesus, it's a phone! You're pissed off because you can't get a phone a month after you thought you could, while the father's of children are being killed in Iraq and families are facing the Holidays without a loved one. I'm not a military zealot, but for God's sake will you please get some perspective!
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  5. #85  
    Out of fairness I use the word "if", however we know lots of facts - sufficie facts that would make it a SURE BET if there were a way to make money off of it:

    (1) We know Handspring was broke; they told us so in their financial documents.

    (2) We know Solectron (or whomever) is hesitant to extend credit to a broke company; Handspring warned us about just that in their financial documents.

    (3) We know T-Mobile hasn't (or perhaps "hadn't") approved the TREO 600 yet and you cannot order one anywhere.

    (4) We know you CAN order Sprint and Orange TREO 600s and get them showing that they got their initial (and perhaps ONLY) shipments.

    (5) We know you can order Cingfular and AT&T TREO 600s but you won't get them for weeks with the exception of the first-run buyers who theoretically can get theirs due to being in that particular now-paid-for first production run.

    When you combine all of the above, you get, even charitably, exactly what I posted without the "if"s.

    (BTW - all these posts of miine in THIS thread have been to defend Handspring's actions w.r.t. ordering and shipping...)
  6. #86  
    I note that BLT has a book of 850 orders for GSM phones and 1250 on order from HS. I cancelled my order with them when their ETA slipped from 11/1 to 11/31. Their ETA has slipped again to 1Q04. That is just one unfavored distributor in one unfavored channel. It is hard to believe that the problem is a "shortage of orders." While, by definition, many of their orders are from "early adopters" that is still a lot of orders to just blow off.

    Note also that this is not a carrier problem. One cannot blame T-Mobile for this.

    They have 1300 CDMA phones in stock with another 1500 expected on 12-15-03. They will be happy to ship today and give very good service. While there is a delivery problem for CDMA phones ordered direct from HS at a discount, there is no shortage of CDMA phones at full price.

    As I have said from the start of this thread, this about a clear preference of HS for CDMA. While it clearly benefits Sprint, it does not seem to be a preference for Sprint. it does not benefit Sprint at the expense of full-price CDMA. It clearly harms T-Mobile. The customers going over to Sprint will not come back.

    Whatever their problems and motives, HS's business practices are indefensible.
  7. #87  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Out of fairness I use the word "if", however we know lots of facts - sufficie facts that would make it a SURE BET if there were a way to make money off of it:

    (1) We know Handspring was broke; they told us so in their financial documents.

    (2) We know Solectron (or whomever) is hesitant to extend credit to a broke company; Handspring warned us about just that in their financial documents.

    (3) We know T-Mobile hasn't (or perhaps "hadn't") approved the TREO 600 yet and you cannot order one anywhere.

    (4) We know you CAN order Sprint and Orange TREO 600s and get them showing that they got their initial (and perhaps ONLY) shipments.

    (5) We know you can order Cingfular and AT&T TREO 600s but you won't get them for weeks with the exception of the first-run buyers who theoretically can get theirs due to being in that particular now-paid-for first production run.

    When you combine all of the above, you get, even charitably, exactly what I posted without the "if"s.

    (BTW - all these posts of miine in THIS thread have been to defend Handspring's actions w.r.t. ordering and shipping...)
    i really don't have the time to address all this non sense about hs being broke, poor product rollout. has anyone here ever heard of the term filling the supply chain?

    this phone is hot. white hot! every sprint store i stop buy has no phones and a list of pre orders for this phone. pasting it on the cover of major magazines doesn't help correct this availability issue.

    i recently waited for an auto purchase for over 60 days due to unavailability caused by demand. today, 4 months later, the dealer can get me this car within 24 hours. i accepted this with out problem, because i understand how this happens.

    get real people. unavailability happens constantly on new product releases. you don't hold inventory until you can fill everyones wish list. it's very costly and dangerous in this fast changing market.

    frankly, this whole thread with its foolish speculation and banging of hs has become rediculous.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 11/24/2003 at 09:18 AM.
  8. #88  
    yes, it is dumb indeed.

    treo 600's are at best buy.

    i know someone who ordered a treo600 from cingular on the 18th and got it the 21st.

    i think you guys are waiting to get it from handspring, who probably has commitments to ship to retailers BEFORE any of you even ordered.

    you are complaining about the availability from ONE store. Seems many other sources have T600's. Most of you complaining are doing the $399 upgrade. Have some friggin patience!!!
  9. #89  
    > ...unavailability happens constantly on new product releases.
    > you don't hold inventory until you can fill everyones wish list.
    > it's very costly and dangerous in this fast changing market.

    Like I said.

    Especially when you have no money to afford a large inventory.

    ====

    > ...I note that BLT has a book of 850 orders for GSM phones and
    > 1250 on order from HS...

    The only number htat matters to HS, of course, is the 1250.

    For the sake of argument, let's say a standard production run of an expensive electronic device is 10,000 units (those in the electronics manufacturing industry would have a better handle on this than I).

    That is, the MINIMUM number of units that Soelctron will order the parts for and build is 10,000 units.

    Handspring, of course, will place an order with Solectron for 10,000 units before they HAVE 10,000 units ordered - as a wild guess I'd say they need between 7500 and 9000 units actually orded before they'll place an order with Solectron (what would YOU guess?).

    That means they nead about 6-7 BLTs out there with large orders.

    Before they make ONE shippable TREO 600.
  10. #90  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    > ...unavailability happens constantly on new product releases.
    > you don't hold inventory until you can fill everyones wish list.
    > it's very costly and dangerous in this fast changing market.

    Like I said.

    Especially when you have no money to afford a large inventory.

    ====

    > ...I note that BLT has a book of 850 orders for GSM phones and
    > 1250 on order from HS...

    The only number htat matters to HS, of course, is the 1250.

    For the sake of argument, let's say a standard production run of an expensive electronic device is 10,000 units (those in the electronics manufacturing industry would have a better handle on this than I).

    That is, the MINIMUM number of units that Soelctron will order the parts for and build is 10,000 units.

    Handspring, of course, will place an order with Solectron for 10,000 units before they HAVE 10,000 units ordered - as a wild guess I'd say they need between 7500 and 9000 units actually orded before they'll place an order with Solectron (what would YOU guess?).

    That means they nead about 6-7 BLTs out there with large orders.

    Before they make ONE shippable TREO 600.
    lets say you don't know a damn thing about what's going on. lets say that is one fact we do know. lets say anyone who gives creedance to your speculations any further is completely wasting their time.
  11. #91  
    Originally posted by JTREOB


    lets say you don't know a damn thing about what's going on. lets say that is one fact we do know.
    He seems at least as credible as you.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  12. #92  
    He does seem to be taking something incorrectly in a negative manner and personally as well.

    I smell a bagholder.

    Okie dokie - nuff on this subthread fer me!
  13. #93  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    This is a company caught in a financial bear trap that gnawed off its arm in hopes of survival and then threw a hail mary pass with the remaining one.

    I don't think I'll ever be able to get the image of the Bloody One Armed Quarterback ("BOAQ") out of my mind whenever people talk about Handspring...

  14.    #94  
    Originally posted by ToonFan


    1) I need an avocado to complete a guacamole recipe. The weekly flyer from my local grocery store screams that avocados are on sale. I drive down there to buy some, but they are out of them. I'm stuck as this is a needed critical ingredient to finish the preparartion of a meal. Do I spew venemous garbage at the store for being out of stock? No.

    2) After watching The Jetsons, I want a little space ship to commute in. I want to fly through the sky, and avoid the traffic on the ground. We've been promised this technology for years, yet the vast majority of us do not have it. Should I pull a verbal nutter and attack the companies that should have produced one by now? No.

    Your rants are tiresome, tedious, and redundant. Exercise your freedom of choice, and personally decide to not buy a HS product ever again. That's fine. The rest of us will carry on without you. If you have a problem with the company, deal with the company. Or write to your Congressman.

    Jesus, it's a phone! You're pissed off because you can't get a phone a month after you thought you could, while the father's of children are being killed in Iraq and families are facing the Holidays without a loved one. I'm not a military zealot, but for God's sake will you please get some perspective!
    Well how would you feel if you knew that the store was ordering 12 avocados when they were purposely taking 120 orders for avocados? And more importantly, that NO ONE ELSE can sell avocados because the store owns the avocado factory?

    In the case with the Treo, we are dealing with a company t hat is the sole provider of the product in question. Sure there are other phones out there. But this is unique, and it's one that has been avidly hyped with a concious decision to build buzz through alternate channels because the company couldn't afford a normal marketing campaign. And one of the most important marketing channels it chose to hype things was the early adopter group. So you didn't just get a broadcast message to buy a Treo. You were selected as a particular target, then encouraged over an extended period to freeze your purchase decisions because something special was on the way.

    Your Jetsons analogy is way off base because we are not dealing with pie in the sky technology that is esentially beyond the reach of most people. We are dealing with a CONSUMER product of a nature that is not new. It is not a wish list kind of thing. It's a real product, touted as a general distribution product through a wide variety of outlets with PROMISED dates of availability.

    You want to know what is REALLY tedious?

    It's guys like you who wax on and on about how GREAT a product is, how you all join these circle jerk boards to have mutual fun and then as soon as someone throws a little cold water on your fun, you unleash your condescending and disrespectful argument about how "its just a phone". If that's the case, then get to work, stop with the techie boards and don't waste another second worrying about me or anyone else on these boards. Because, remember - IT"S JUST A PHONE.
  15. #95  
    Sounds like the same old CDMA vs. GSM argument. Someone in New England mentioned that Sprints coverage is not as good as T-mobile's and I've found the reverse to be true in Boston. Anyway, coverage will always be dependant on location, so everyone on the board will have a unique-ish situation.

    Someone also mentioned wanting the longer battery life and international roaming that GSM has. Well I wanted the quicker data transfer at a $10 unlimited price that Sprint has given me. I think that's a pretty fair wash overall.

    So it really comes down to how much you need the GSM abilities vs. getting the Treo 600 now. I suggest you be happy that you get the choice of CDMA and GSM eventually, because a lot of phone makers don't make the same phones that do both.
  16. #96  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    we are not dealing with pie in the sky technology that is esentially beyond the reach of most people.
    When I first read this I was inclined to post a quick snide response, but then I thought about it for a minute and realized that this is actually the correct phrasing. I mean, there really are people who live in a Jetsons-like fantasy world (if it isn't flying cars and robots, it's something similar, even if the simulatation is built on the blood and sweat of a social or economic nouveau-slave class) ...and now I'm just depressed.

    Originally posted by zipmitz
    IT"S JUST A PHONE.
    No need to yell, man. I mean, it's just a phone.
  17. #97  
    Well how would you feel if you knew that the store was ordering 12 avocados when they were purposely taking 120 orders for avocados? And more importantly, that NO ONE ELSE can sell avocados because the store owns the avocado factory?
    1) Mazda Miata
    2) Honda Odyssey
    3) Volvo XC-90

    All examples where the selling agent did own the factory, hyped the hell out of the product, then took orders without being able to offer a firm delivery date.

    Your Jetsons analogy is way off base because we are not dealing with pie in the sky technology that is esentially beyond the reach of most people. We are dealing with a CONSUMER product of a nature that is not new. It is not a wish list kind of thing. It's a real product, touted as a general distribution product through a wide variety of outlets with PROMISED dates of availability.
    This is not a run-of-the-mill consumer product. It is a high-end consumer product. A niche product with a price point that is totally beyong what the average consumer would even consider paying for a phone. or a PDA. For the average consumer, it is a wish list kind of thing.

    It's guys like you who wax on and on about how GREAT a product is, how you all join these circle jerk boards to have mutual fun and then as soon as someone throws a little cold water on your fun, you unleash your condescending and disrespectful argument about how "its just a phone".
    I challenge you to find a post of mine concerning the Treo600 where I wax on about how great the product is. Your own personal and petty agenda has blinded you to the facts.

    And if this is a circle jerk, then you are the mother that walks into the room to interupt and surprise the participants.

    The only correct thing thing you have said is that "it's just a phone". But you act as if it's a cure for cancer which is your only hope for a cure.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  18. #98  
    Originally posted by ToonFan And if this is a circle jerk, then you are the mother that walks into the room to interupt and surprise the participants.

    And licks her lips, silently getting off on the spectacle before her. And then slowly walks over to her sons friends and...
  19. #99  
    Originally posted by The Chupacabra



    And licks her lips, silently getting off on the spectacle before her. And then slowly walks over to her sons friends and...
    Well, that should be the end of this thread.
  20. #100  
    Originally posted by whmurray


    Well, that should be the end of this thread.





    "Why don't you *** over here and sit beside me, Chris?", Mrs Robinson cooed, gazing at the turgid member jutting toward her mouth. Chris obediently did as he was ordered, heart pounding and his monstrous manhood throbbing. The other boys moved back, watching intently what was about to unfold.

    Mrs. Robinson pushed Chris onto his back and lifted his muscular thighs skyward. Chris gasped as she slowly parted her lips and lowered her head toward his erect
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