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  1. #41  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Handspring is responsible for managing their carrier relationships.

    This phone has been in the planning stages for a very long time. By the time they started with their email series touting the phone to early adopters, they should have been well on their way, if not completed with their carrier arrangements.
    shut up, pay $800, and get it shipped from Italy or something.
  2.    #42  
    Originally posted by conflagrare


    shut up, pay $800, and get it shipped from Italy or something.
    Bite me
  3. #43  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Bite me
    If he did, you'd probably claim to have been misled, saying you were told you'd be licked.
    Last edited by ToonFan; 11/05/2003 at 04:45 PM.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  4. #44  
    Originally posted by treoo0
    I switched to Sprint, and don't regret it one bit (from t-mo)! If you're still dying, make the switch too.
    I wouldnt go with sprint if their service was free!
  5. #45  
    Couple of cliche's / quotes come to mind.

    "What do you feed an 800 pound gorilla?"

    Answer: Anything he wants. The carriers are the 800 pound gorillas. These things are phones. Cingular, T-mo and the rest can tell HS to fly a kite and they won't have a significant impact to their business. Handspring is at their mercy. For all this talk of managing the relationship, there is no "managing" a relationship when one party has 95% of the power. What exactly was Dubinsky supposed to do if T-mo decided to delay their release?

    Second cliche'

    "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity". That's really just a variation of Occham's razor: All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. What's more likely, HS is lying, evil, and corrupt or its simply hard to coordinate the activities of parts suppliers, manufacturers, and carriers?

    I'm disappointed too. I'll be disappointed in 6 months when they release the 700 with more bells and whistles. But take a step back and get some perspective, you'll feel better.

    David
  6.    #46  
    Originally posted by djs_tx
    Couple of cliche's / quotes come to mind.

    "What do you feed an 800 pound gorilla?"

    Answer: Anything he wants. The carriers are the 800 pound gorillas. These things are phones. Cingular, T-mo and the rest can tell HS to fly a kite and they won't have a significant impact to their business. Handspring is at their mercy. For all this talk of managing the relationship, there is no "managing" a relationship when one party has 95% of the power. What exactly was Dubinsky supposed to do if T-mo decided to delay their release?

    Second cliche'

    "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity". That's really just a variation of Occham's razor: All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. What's more likely, HS is lying, evil, and corrupt or its simply hard to coordinate the activities of parts suppliers, manufacturers, and carriers?

    I'm disappointed too. I'll be disappointed in 6 months when they release the 700 with more bells and whistles. But take a step back and get some perspective, you'll feel better.

    David
    All of that is true. But what you can't ascribe to stupidity is their lies about deadlines not slipping, their 2 or 3 week timelines that they repeat for 3 or 4 weeks, still denying no slippage and their dishonesty in saying Cingular is available when it isn't going to be for at least two weeks.

    All of those are unvarnished lies.
  7. #47  
    Zipmitz is absolutely correct in his /her analysis.

    Handspring lied. I know this to be a FACT. My source? A high level Handspring executive.

    Handspring is also grossly guilty of incompetence. I switched carriers to get a Treo and then when I call to order a cradle weeks later, they tell me in won’t be available until April???? Same with the car kit????

    Handspring is definitely lacking when it comes to brand awareness. They may as well have left the camera off the phone since it is so lame, and the 160x160 is weaker than weak.

    To borrow a Winston Churchill phrase, the Treo 600 is the worst smartphone, except for all the other.

    I agree with EVERYTHING zipmitz says and despite these facts I will stick with Handspring because it is the least worst of all the evils. I am brand agnostic, but I can say that I think Handspring is totally lame.

    I said after my meeting with Jeff Hawkins that Jeff left me with the impression that Handspring views their customers with utter contempt. This is all crystal clear evidence that supports my original hypothesis.

    Not only does Handspring not get it, they don’t care to get it.

    I believe that in Handspring’s infinite wisdom they believed that if they know something to not be true and they just don’t say anything that they are not lying? In the final analysis not being forthright with your customers is worse than lying. It is disgraceful.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  8. #48  
    Still, Handspring is playing with us !!

    As per Treocentral poll, 40% of Treo users bought their Treo without a mobile phone plan. This is my case here in Kenya. and despite being a loyal customer (since February 2002) I canno't benefit any rebate.

    True, that Treo GSM is available in Europe...but locked with the orange system and still no rebate for loyal customer !!

    I really hope HS will stop that joke and deliver unlocked GSM to worlwided customers on their website.

    Benoit.
  9. #49  
    All of that is true. But what you can't ascribe to stupidity is their lies about deadlines not slipping, their 2 or 3 week timelines that they repeat for 3 or 4 weeks, still denying no slippage and their dishonesty in saying Cingular is available when it isn't going to be for at least two weeks.
    There's always at least two perspectives. Let's say your Donna Dubinsky and a reporter asks you when it will be available.

    The truth is your product is technically ready but HS is at the mercy of the carriers to approve their product. But if you say that, you may just make the carrier delay problem worse. You could be honest and say "I don't know, ask the carriers" but that undermines the carrier relationship and undermines customer confidence as well. So you give your best estimate and hope it comes out.

    Have any of you guys ever brought a technical product like this to market? It is always really hard to get every little piece of the puzzle lined up to meet the release. It doesn't matter if 98% of the job is done right, that 2% can hold up the whole product line. The job HS is doing is incredibly hard to get everything ready to roll out a complex product.

    I'll grant HS is not 100% bluntly honest, but then neither are you. How many of you tell your boss exactly what you think? How many husbands would be 100% truthful when their wives say "does this make my **** look big?". You have to look at intent. HS is just trying to walk a line between keeping carriers happy and keeping customers happy.

    If you expect 100% transparency and blunt honesty from a company you are going to disappointed. Their job is to sell treos, not to teach Sunday school. And in my experience, HS has been a heck of a lot more ethical than most of my experiences with technical product support.

    Again, not trying to argue, I'm disappointed too. Keep in mind that Cingular, T-mo, and ATT bear a lot of the responsibility in delays but they can drag their feet as long as they want and bear no heat from customers. HS is between a rock and a hard place. Or more accurately between an 800 pound gorilla and a mob of cranky technophiles.

    David
  10. #50  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    Handspring is also grossly guilty of incompetence. I switched carriers to get a Treo and then when I call to order a cradle weeks later, they tell me in won’t be available until April???? Same with the car kit????
    You can buy OEM Treo 600 cradles on Ebay for $16.99. Do a search or check out this link

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=29849
    No good deed goes unpunished
  11.    #51  
    Originally posted by djs_tx


    There's always at least two perspectives. Let's say your Donna Dubinsky and a reporter asks you when it will be available.

    The truth is your product is technically ready but HS is at the mercy of the carriers to approve their product. But if you say that, you may just make the carrier delay problem worse. You could be honest and say "I don't know, ask the carriers" but that undermines the carrier relationship and undermines customer confidence as well. So you give your best estimate and hope it comes out.

    Have any of you guys ever brought a technical product like this to market? It is always really hard to get every little piece of the puzzle lined up to meet the release. It doesn't matter if 98% of the job is done right, that 2% can hold up the whole product line. The job HS is doing is incredibly hard to get everything ready to roll out a complex product.

    I'll grant HS is not 100% bluntly honest, but then neither are you. How many of you tell your boss exactly what you think? How many husbands would be 100% truthful when their wives say "does this make my **** look big?". You have to look at intent. HS is just trying to walk a line between keeping carriers happy and keeping customers happy.

    If you expect 100% transparency and blunt honesty from a company you are going to disappointed. Their job is to sell treos, not to teach Sunday school. And in my experience, HS has been a heck of a lot more ethical than most of my experiences with technical product support.

    Again, not trying to argue, I'm disappointed too. Keep in mind that Cingular, T-mo, and ATT bear a lot of the responsibility in delays but they can drag their feet as long as they want and bear no heat from customers. HS is between a rock and a hard place. Or more accurately between an 800 pound gorilla and a mob of cranky technophiles.

    David
    There's a dozen ways to lie. That's true. And no one is 100% honest. Context is important.

    Accepting your premise that the reason for the GSM delay is carrier caused and HS doesn't want to anger their important carriers by blaming them to early adopters, there is absolutely no reason for them to have flat out LIED to customers.

    That's not the only response possible....

    Remember HS is the guy who stoked the fires with their extended email campaign. They are the ones who have acknowledged that early adopters are important to a successful early rollout.

    It's impossible to square that (including their generous early adopter loyalty discount program) with their conscious decision to lie.

    You simply can't ignore what Dubinsky said - words from her own mouth regarding October availability through the HS website for ALL GSM equipment - carrier specific and unlocked.

    Now everyone knows that dates slip for a million different reasons and when they do, what's wrong with telling people that they have? You don't even have to be specific as to the reasons. You can say something vague, like complexities in support and distribution that can cause problems in the US based upon its size as the largest market.

    But after your CEO goes PUBLIC with dates, don't make like it was never said. Don't say that there was never any slippage or never any dates given.

    Don't tell your CSRs to say that GSM units for T-Mo will be out "shortly" and then quietly tell your CSRs that the corporate definition of "shortly" is UP TO EIGHT WEEKS.

    And then when you decide to take orders for shipping two weeks out, don't put PAID ADS out there saying that the product is available.

    That's a lesser "crime" than the blatant outright lies of denying the October dates had been announced.

    But it is an indication of how they play fast and loose with the truth.

    The long and short of it? There are people here who get annoyed with me for my rants. Probably because they love the technology so much that they love the developer of it and don't want to see how they've been played for suckers.

    None of them seem to want to face up to the obligation that you have to a customer when you tease him for months with emails and then supply everyone in the world around them while giving out BS and squishy words about when you'll meet THEIR needs.

    To me, these are not just fools. They're s-bags too.
  12.    #52  
    Originally posted by Kateben
    Still, Handspring is playing with us !!

    As per Treocentral poll, 40% of Treo users bought their Treo without a mobile phone plan. This is my case here in Kenya. and despite being a loyal customer (since February 2002) I canno't benefit any rebate.

    True, that Treo GSM is available in Europe...but locked with the orange system and still no rebate for loyal customer !!

    I really hope HS will stop that joke and deliver unlocked GSM to worlwided customers on their website.

    Benoit.
    You make a very interesting point.

    The only rebate you get is if you buy direct from Handspring.

    Handspring says that they want to stoke the early adopter crowd and reward loyalty. Every HS phone out there came from them and every phone sold - regardless of the outlet - benefits HS.

    Assume that the margins on a direct sale phone allow for a greater discount. Great. But how do you justify giving ZERO discount to people who buy through the retail channel?

    I guess you can assume that carriers will subsidize phones. But what about generic unlocked phones sold through retailers?

    You give one guy a $300 rebate and the other guy NOTHING? How loyal is that? And how does that help early adopters from EVERY STRIPE help with the word of mouth?

    Idiots.
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