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  1. CharFeld's Avatar
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    #21  
    Originally posted by WeeBitObsessed
    .... as they only have 3,500 units to send initally, the others will ship on the 14th of november.
    Do you think it's wise to try to purchase one of the first 3500 GSM units out of the factory? Or would it be more prudent to wait for bloody revision A, B, C or D (etc), even if it means (gasp) waiting even longer?
  2. #22  
    So with the prior-Treo owner discount on the GSM version it will be $499 as opposed to $399 for a Sprint version with the discount? Does anyone know?

    Also, I'm nervous I may miss out on the "trade-in" discount. I'm going out of the country for two weeks and won't have internet access. They better stick to their word (saw HS said on thier web site that the discount for prior-Treo owners would last for 3 weeks following the Treo 600 being offered on a carrier).

    And all of this delay on the GSM version and the allegations that it's blamed on carrier delay is exactly like the release of the Treo 180. Doesn't anyone else feel the deja vu?
  3. #23  
    What I don't understand is this delay. If

    a.) The hardware is done and they have some.
    b.) They have carrier approval.
    c.) The webpages are up.

    Just put it and let us order. It's not like they are going to ship them 5 minutes after we order anyway. Put it up and say shipping in 7 days (or something) and let us put in our preorders. That would stop alot of the whining (but add new whining about waiting for it to ship) and at least reduce or end some of the uncertainty.

    Thanks to all the forum members who have info for contributing it. I just don't understand what Handspring is doing with this delay.
  4. #24  
    3500 GSM TREO 600s is nicely coincidental with the datapoints we have saying Sprint got 2400+ CDMA TREO 600s.

    That's not a whole lot of cellphones.

    In a different thread I requested feedback on how long it will be before the TREO 600 goes out of production.

    If Handspring/palmOne is making them in this low quantity, I'd say they stop by year end.

    Latest.

    (no, not selling, just making)
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by WeeBitObsessed
    It will be $499 (unless you have a serial number and WILL lauch by monday
    Let me add my thanks to the chorus, I sure hope this information is accurate. Although I'll probably wait even if the GSM release is delayed further.

    Right now there are no viable alternatives to the Treo 600, I like the moto MPx200 smartphone, but no keyboard is a deal breaker for me.

    Again Thank You!
    No good deed goes unpunished
  6. jhetzel's Avatar
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    #26  
    I also would like to say thanks to WeeBit. He has always been the prevayor of sold information amidst all the rumor and outright false information that has been circulating about.
    Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

    Check out my crazy Golden Retrievers!
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by Prismatic

    Right now there are no viable alternatives to the Treo 600, I like the moto MPx200 smartphone, but no keyboard is a deal breaker for me.
    That's the thing... I've personally never had my heart set specifically on a Treo. I've never had a Handspring product, and don't feel any particular loyalty to them. I think it looks like a really nice product, but if there were a good alternative, I'd certainly consider it. However, from what I've seen, there aren't any competing products that fit my needs and desires very well. Minimally, I want a device that has a phone-like form factor, as small as possible, with a keyboard. It has to sync with Mac OS, which Palm devices generally do fine (sometimes some tweaking required). It has to have decent web and email support. It has to work on GSM networks (not necessarily because I think GSM is better, but because I don't want to change carriers). Those all are absolute requirements. Palm OS is a big plus because I know it, like it and have software I like to use on it, but it's not a requirement. I don't care about the camera or mp3 player (in fact, if they left them off and made the phone smaller/lighter and/or cheaper, I'd be happy).

    There are several devices out there that meet most of the criteria (some even better than the Treo), but I haven't found any others that meet them all. The biggest dealbreaker tends to be the keyboard (which makes the P800, P900, MPx200, Samsung SGH-i500 and many others non-starters). The previous Treo models and Blackberries are too big and clunky for my tastes, so they're out. The Sidekick/Hiptop isn't at all phone-like. So, what else is there?
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by sharding


    ... So, what else is there?
    Nothing. Sorry to say.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    3500 GSM TREO 600s is nicely coincidental with the datapoints we have saying Sprint got 2400+ CDMA TREO 600s.

    That's not a whole lot of cellphones.

    In a different thread I requested feedback on how long it will be before the TREO 600 goes out of production.

    If Handspring/palmOne is making them in this low quantity, I'd say they stop by year end.

    Latest.

    (no, not selling, just making)
    Ya gotta shake your head. What are they thinking????

    Why in heavens name don't they just release things when they CAN release things.

    Look at the Dell Axiom. They announced it and released it in pretty short order - within 18 weeks it had captured 37% of the pocketpc market. 37%. How did they do that? By releasing a product and shipping it in volume from DAY ONE.

    Part of the problem, I think, is that Handspring has been teasing us for months with those regular emails touting one new feature after the other, whetting our appetites (and probably killing their 270 and 300 volumes).

    Part of the reason I am so frustrated personally is that having stoked my desire, they now are playing these crazy games with their rollout.

    And then you read that they will have a teaspon worth of product for the bathtub of demand they built with their emails, you gotta SCREAM.

    Well, I guess there is a reason Dell is on the way to $60 billion in sales, and they are out of business.....
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by Prismatic


    Let me add my thanks to the chorus, I sure hope this information is accurate. Although I'll probably wait even if the GSM release is delayed further.

    Right now there are no viable alternatives to the Treo 600, I like the moto MPx200 smartphone, but no keyboard is a deal breaker for me.

    Again Thank You!
    Someone mentioned that Nextel is coming out with a new gee whizzer soon. I guess it's not comparable, but does anyone have any info on it?
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by bcaslis
    What I don't understand is this delay. If

    a.) The hardware is done and they have some.
    b.) They have carrier approval.
    c.) The webpages are up.

    Just put it and let us order. It's not like they are going to ship them 5 minutes after we order anyway. Put it up and say shipping in 7 days (or something) and let us put in our preorders. That would stop alot of the whining (but add new whining about waiting for it to ship) and at least reduce or end some of the uncertainty.

    Thanks to all the forum members who have info for contributing it. I just don't understand what Handspring is doing with this delay.
    the issue is simple- they didnt engage the carriers early enough and get their suppport- if you want to see a good product launch and great carrier relationships and business development, look at RIM- they launched the 7230 simultaneously on at least three networks, and they were available almost immediately or within a two week period of each other, at retail outlets.

    all of this bullsh@t with the ROM image and minor tweaks should have been ironed out weeks ago, and contracts finalized at the beginning of this month...
  12. #32  
    First and foremost, let me say thanks to WeeBit for the great post. I am a former HS employee and still talk to many many people on the inside and to the best of my knowledge you are totally right. My latest information is less than 24 hours old and it lines up with what you’ve said.

    Now in defense of my former colleagues, those of you that are upset at the company or Donna for the way the launch was handled really only have one point you can legitimately gripe about… Their choice to execute a long teaser campaign. They have done a good job of drumming up a frenzy of interest, and these delays are so routine on Treo launches that I personally wish they had not tossed out any dates for GSM availability.

    Those of you that are annoyed with the lack of units, lack of pre-ordering, or lack of exact pricing *clearly* have never worked for organizations that are at the beck and call of the carriers. Handspring was not late in dealing with the carriers, because, well, they have had constant ongoing relationships with them all since the Treo 180 days! Folks, Handspring can NOT build the units until they get carrier signoff and they can NOT sell them until the carriers say so. Why not sell unlocked units? Because the carriers don’t want them to, and the carriers can crack down on them if they don’t like them and make the life of the unlocked users a nightmare. So, quite sensibly, they wait until the carriers say “okay, it’s good enough” and begin to build them. Ramp up on production takes two weeks and if it were rushed more than that you would see quality issues, leading to a new set of whining on these boards. So, with a week or so of preliminary builds and testing and then the build up to launch quantities and you end up with somewhere between 1,000 and 5,000 units at launch depending on how well or bad it goes. Keep in mind that THE CARRIERS COULD STILL KILL THE LAUNCH IF THEY WANTED TO. They have that much power… Odds are they wouldn’t because this late in the game it would really hurt their reputation with the handset makers and obviously with HS.

    Folks, try to keep it realistic here… You can’t understand how massive and powerful the carriers are to the smaller handset makers until you’ve been on the inside. Also keep in mind that under the adverse conditions of a merger and FIVE sets of layoffs the team at HS has managed to produce the best smartphone the world has ever seen and something that won’t have any competition for at least six months (unless someone has a surprise out there). I’m not part of that team anymore, but even knowing them like I do I am very impressed.
  13. #33  
    Well said!
    T750 w/Cingular
    Black Jawbone
  14. #34  
    Handspring was not late in dealing with the carriers, because, well, they have had constant ongoing relationships with them all since the Treo 180 days! Folks, Handspring can NOT build the units until they get carrier signoff and they can NOT sell them until the carriers say so.
    i appreciate your comments and insight into the process-

    i guess knowing all of this- it still doesn't excuse the fact that-

    1. despite the fact they've had constant, ongoing relationships with the carriers- the relationships apparently suck...

    2. if the relationships were constant and ongoing, why are some carriers launching sooner than others? obviously they engaged some carriers sooner- and got approval sooner as a result, and got handsets into the channel for those carriers first...

    3. how do companies like RIM manage successful simultaneous launches across multiple carriers? they must be doing something better- perhaps the ridiculous quality issues with earlier models harmed these relationships?

    sorry to appear harsh, but i believe my earlier points are still pretty valid.

    i'll leave you with this- i work for a billion dollar company, and our execs are trialing the blackberry enterpsie server with RIM 7230's, and because the execs dont really know better, they love the blackberries, and they've had them for about a month.

    Now, i probably have enough pull to get a trial of Goodlink and some HS Treo's for everyone to try out- but guess what? There are no GSM treo's to be had- and guess what else? Good doesn't even have the software ready, because it uses one way SMS to wake up the treo for the email push, they have to work with the carriers to test against their SMS gateway- and they havent been able to do that apparently...

    so even though i'm pulling for Handspring, trying to bring them into my company as a mobile solution- the window is closing on an enterprise sales opportunity for about 500-800 units between Handspring and Good....

    when our IT guys bought in the blackberries- they called one guy at Tmobile and four days later we were up and running...

    i got the number of an "enterprise sales" manager at Handspring today- and despite what i've just stated here, he could not give me any idea of when a solution would be available, from good or handspring, and he came across like a used car salesman.

    as a consumer- i dont mind waiting to try a unit out, i've got several different phones, kind of a gadget collector/user, including one of those aforementioned blackberries, and a sony ericsson p800 which is a fine device-

    but this is a classic example of how a crap launch can lose you some real opportunities- because we're a large company based in san jose and san francisco, all of those employees that will now end up carrying blackberry 7230's could have been showing off Treo 600s to their friends and families, which would have resulted in countless influence sales...

    if handspring had managed expectations with their customers, like me who called twice a week and got the "two week" call center response, and had developed a real sales channel, perhaps this could have been avoided...

    if handspring truly engaged partners like Good and put more resources into presenting a single face to their customers, again, could have been avoided....

    they're playing Junior Varsity...and thats ok- but if they want to play with the big boys they need to put more into those supposed "ongoing" carrier relationships, and more into their supposed "enterprise" sales channel...

    get my drift here? walt mossberg can gush all he wants over his eval unit- but if i cant call a single number, and get a single enterprise solution for my company- then palm and handspring will continue to get the sh@t kicked out of them by a company with a semi-inferior product, like RIM...

    if you still have friends at handspring- do them a favor and forward this thread to ed colligan for a quick dose of non-stock option related reality...
    Last edited by theevaluator; 10/29/2003 at 10:57 PM.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    I am a former HS employee and still talk to many many people on the inside..........snip.........Now in defense of my former colleagues, those of you that are upset at the company or Donna
    Just to clarify when you mention colleagues and Donna in the same breath, were you part of the senior management team at Handspring...............Or like a CSR???
    No good deed goes unpunished
  16. #36  
    Hey Evaluator

    On points 1) & 2)...

    You're right, RIM does have more leverage on the carriers, partly because they began working on them over three years ago, HS has only been in the game for about two years. However, and I am sure others in the industry who read this will confirm it, RIM is LOATHED by the carriers. The reason? They were once the only game in town, especially in the pre-CDMA/GSM days, and they were almost abusive of the carriers. When HS approached the carriers they were very excited to have someone to pit against RIM.

    So, it's too bad that they are going to lose out on a sale to your org because of the delays, but I still don't think you fully understand the insanity of working with the carriers. Let's face it, if they could have launched at the same time the Sprint T600 was out don't you think they would? They probably have missed out on quite a few sales because of the delay... But they aren't doing it to spite you (you sound as though you are taking the delay personally)

    On point 3)
    So how does RIM do it? Again, the maturity of the relationships, their hardware is more simple (much), they have barely evolved their product (yeah! it's in color now!) so getting the stamp of approval is faster. In addition, I am not sure what the numbers are now, but they have almost an order of magnitude more people than HS had for this launch...

    Take all that for what it's worth...

    To Prismatic:
    I don't want to out myself that much, but I sat in HS headquarters on Bernardo in Mt. View and was midway up the ladder. I know Donna and Ed relatively well, and Jeff at least knows who I am.
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    To Prismatic:
    I don't want to out myself that much, but I sat in HS headquarters on Bernardo in Mt. View and was midway up the ladder. I know Donna and Ed relatively well, and Jeff at least knows who I am.
    Thanks for clarifying! That gives us all some insight into your perspective.
    No good deed goes unpunished
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    Hey Evaluator

    On points 1) & 2)...

    You're right, RIM does have more leverage on the carriers, partly because they began working on them over three years ago, HS has only been in the game for about two years. However, and I am sure others in the industry who read this will confirm it, RIM is LOATHED by the carriers. The reason? They were once the only game in town, especially in the pre-CDMA/GSM days, and they were almost abusive of the carriers. When HS approached the carriers they were very excited to have someone to pit against RIM.

    So, it's too bad that they are going to lose out on a sale to your org because of the delays, but I still don't think you fully understand the insanity of working with the carriers. Let's face it, if they could have launched at the same time the Sprint T600 was out don't you think they would? They probably have missed out on quite a few sales because of the delay... But they aren't doing it to spite you (you sound as though you are taking the delay personally)

    On point 3)
    So how does RIM do it? Again, the maturity of the relationships, their hardware is more simple (much), they have barely evolved their product (yeah! it's in color now!) so getting the stamp of approval is faster. In addition, I am not sure what the numbers are now, but they have almost an order of magnitude more people than HS had for this launch...

    Take all that for what it's worth...


    again, i appreciate your thoughtful response-

    my frustration isnt really personal- what i mean is that it doesn't lie in the fact that the treo is going to be the best device for me personally, or even for my company-

    i'm defintely eager to try one out, but i can wait a few weeks as a consumer...and lack of bluetooth and voice dialing could be the show stopper for me personally...

    the frustration lies in seeing companies with the potential for greatness fail to execute basic strategy...as we've seen with apple and others in my particular industry, which is software.

    its not difficult to look at what others are executing for channel and sales strategy- and then emulate them or better them at their own game- or even hire them away...

    if i want to trial 20 units for a deal with a potential upside of 500 units, against a competitor- its pretty simple- i should be able to call a corporate sales line, and get a better answer than some CSR giving telling me "several weeks"...

    btw- you may have met a buddy of mine from IDEO back in your Handspring days- he used to ride the scooter around the office with Hawkins...
    Last edited by theevaluator; 10/29/2003 at 11:14 PM.
  19. #39  
    Fair enough and all too true Evaluator! It's sad to see such a creative force like Apple religated to 3% market share... Handspring/PalmOne still has a strong chance, but time will have to tell.
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by theevaluator


    Now, i probably have enough pull to get a trial of Goodlink and some HS Treo's for everyone to try out- but guess what? There are no GSM treo's to be had- and guess what else? Good doesn't even have the software ready, because it uses one way SMS to wake up the treo for the email push, they have to work with the carriers to test against their SMS gateway- and they havent been able to do that apparently...

    ...
    We just recieved our trial from Good today. Includes Sprint Treo 600's. We only had to deal with Good, and their rep did a great job of setting us up with their enterprise server, Treo's, Blackberry clients (for legacy BB users), and Sprint service.

    So far so good, though I know we'll run into problems that any early adopter should expect to have to deal with. We'll add a couple of GSM units to our trial as soon as they are avaliable thru Good or HS...or...PalmOne.

    My point is that we dealt with Good, and they did a reasonably good job of supporting us as an enterprise customer. Sometimes I think this board is a non-stop gripe-a-thon, so I thought I'd weigh in and let you know that the enterprise customer experience is okay so far....

    HRB
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