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  1.    #1  
    Hi and good day to everyone in this forum.

    First of all, I'm a PPC user and Palm is a whole new thing to me.

    Currently, I am using PPC and SE P800. After several weeks of browsing, searching and reading forums, I would like to ask for a very frank opinions towards my decision in buying either;

    a) MS Smartphone - XDA II or
    b) Symbian OS Phone - SE P900 or
    c) Palm OS Phone - HS Treo600

    One thing I noticed about PPC is the battery won't last long and the unit always froze and crashed like my desktop windows.

    About P900, I'm using P800 now and P900 is not much different compared to P800 except some changes in appearances and programs, like themes etc. The other thing is this unit is using Memory Stick Duo wich is so limited in its capacity. Currently, the unit supports up to 128MB.

    About HS Treo600, I like this phone simply because it has built-in keyboard and also touchscreen. The memory card also use the normal SD(I/O) which is far better in capacity compared to MS Duo.

    To all of you kind readers, please help me to sort this thing as I'm planning to buy one of the above soon when they're ready for selling in my country.

    Notes. 1) I don't really listen to MP3.
    2) I don't play games a lot.
    3) I send/receives a lot of SMS.
    4) I check my mail via my Handphone.

    Thank you.
    < Life ain't easy >
  2. #2  
    keyword = sms/email

    get the treo 600 , because you have a keyboard , the PalmOS is more stable than PPC , and you will find it useful also if you have a data plan with unlimited usage.

    this phone is very easy to use and you will get used to it , you don't have to set alot of options like the PPC makes nuts going through all the options.

    Symbian = limited.


    hope you get the picture !
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #3  
    Notes. 1) I don't really listen to MP3.
    2) I don't play games a lot.
    3) I send/receives a lot of SMS.
    4) I check my mail via my Handphone.
    why even consider p900 or XDAII? any simple phone can do those above. Pick treo since it's the smallest, but it has the least features from the 3 choices. Simple organizer ontop of a phone, the other are PDAphone.

    p900 review here
    http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Page=5&Id=520

    XDAII here
    http://217.160.215.102/
  4.    #4  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    why even consider p900 or XDAII? any simple phone can do those above. Pick treo since it's the smallest, but it has the elast features from the 3 choices.

    p900 review here
    http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Page=5&Id=520

    XDAII here
    http://217.160.215.102/
    The reason is that I need a decent input method like Transciber for PPC, JOT-Pro for P800 and I-don't-know for HSTreo600.

    I don't want a separate keyboard attached to the bottom part of the unit. All I want is a direct easy-to-use unit without much problem and goos support from the supplier and also from fellow readers/users.

    Notes: I used the handwriting recognition more than the keyboard, thus if I'm going to buy HSTreo600, I would have to make use the built-in keyboard, an add-on feature to me then.
    < Life ain't easy >
  5. #5  
    Snag a 600

    The keyboard is worth it...I love this phone!

    I am also a PPC user...I am still hanging onto my not-so-old Ipaq 1945, BUT, I have a feeling I will be selling it soon...

    I have owned a billion PPCs (as well as a lot of Palm based devices), and to be honest, I still think Windows Mobile (PPC) is a superior OS (multi-tasking, program navigation, etc) in almost every aspect, BUT the Palm OS 5 does get the job done, and I truly am loving the 600 for all it can do, and do well (taking pictures is NOT one of them - but fun nonetheless!).

    Several big drawbacks for me in going from my PPC to this thing

    1) Audio recording - not yet on the 600, but built into every PPC!
    2) Poor rez screen compared to my 1945 - you will miss that gorgeous screen you have gotten used to!
    3) All that dang software I bought for my PPC can't be used on the 600!!!!!!!!!


    But, these drawbacks are truly not serious enough (I really don't do that much audio recording, though I would like to get in the habit!) to keep me from enjoying the 600 whole-heartedly! And what can you say about the screen? I guess you win some you lose some! To be honest, I don't necessarily want a bigger screen per se, but better pixel count would be nice . Big screens (like the standard 3.5" plus on PPCs) make them less appealing for use in any way as a phone. Even if they are slim, they are still too wide to be good for the whole cell phone aspect - thus a drawback of the O2-XDA. And all that PPC software? Well, that's a reason why I will probably hang onto my 1945 - kind of a bummer.

    All I know is that the 600 is a great device, and goes with me everywhere! The keyboard alone almost won me over - it is a bit cramped, but I am so frustrated at using all the handwriting recognition programs (I've repeated too many stylus strokes to get the right letter!) that never quite worked for me in an efficient manner. And HS truly worked hard at the "one-handed" design of this phone - the 5-way works AMAZING....they nailed it down with that one! I can get so much done "on the go" with this phone, while still keeping a hand free (I haven't run into any walls yet )

    I can see why the O2 looks appealing, BUT, I haven't read anywhere of any anticipated carriers yet (in the US)! Everyone expects TMO, but, from the looks of it, TMO will hold off on the O2 (at least in the US), in favor of another device coming out next summer. At some point, you just have to draw the line and say "now is when I will buy" and get the latest, and then enjoy it while it is the latest (about 1 month ). Otherwise, you could always be waiting for the "next thing".

    As for me, I am hoping that when Palm OS 6 to come out, which is supposed to be a great move towards something better - HS (PALM) will release an upgrade for their 600's ROM to let us all take advantage of the new OS! Both PPCs and Palm devices are converging into very similair OS, and that can only mean better devices will always be on the horizon!

    Hope this helps! God's Speed on your decision...
  6. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #6  
    Originally posted by morisa
    The reason is that I need a decent input method like Transciber for PPC, JOT-Pro for P800 and I-don't-know for HSTreo600.

    I don't want a separate keyboard attached to the bottom part of the unit. All I want is a direct easy-to-use unit without much problem and goos support from the supplier and also from fellow readers/users.

    Notes: I used the handwriting recognition more than the keyboard, thus if I'm going to buy HSTreo600, I would have to make use the built-in keyboard, an add-on feature to me then.
    what I know about inputs:

    XDAII:
    -Calligrapher/transcriber
    -JOT (actually called block recognizer)
    - tengo (third party apps, this is a T9 like app for those folks who can't live without keyboard/thumboard/numpad)
    http://www.mypdacafe.com/articles/read.php?id=161
    -various virtual keyboard in different formats (fitaly, full screen keyboard etc.)

    P900:
    -JOT
    -T9

    T9 and various phraser actually are still the prefered method for SMS. IMO JOT are completely useless, when it come to SMS.

    How advance of an email client do you need? (In case you are the type who receives several hundreds email wirelessly a day)
  7. #7  
    BTW, my 600 has crashed more times then my PPC has - so I don't know if either one is more "stable" than the other. Albeit, my 600 has crashed on software that may or may not be that compatible (BigClock, and a few others I tried), but it is crashing a lot when using Blazer 3, which shouldn't be happening. Not sure exactly why, but I have heard this only happening on those people's 600 who upgraded from the Treo300 (as I am one of those!).
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #8  
    If you don't need anything beyond basic organizer plus simple SMS and short text email, treo probably is the way to go. Tho' I don't know why you don't get blackberry instead.

    For everything else, you have to be more specific what you expect the device should do. (if at all)

    PS. every one of those devices claimed to be one handed operation. So it's a matter of inspecting actual usability and how the UI fit you.
  9. #9  
    I'm only going to address one of your issues right now, and that is the graffiti/keyboard concern. I am (was) a long time user of palms with graffiti (palm VIIx and zire71);
    I was fast, proficient and efficient with the graffiti, and couldn't imagine a quicker data entry method. However, I recently purchased a treo 600, giving it an open mind. Quickly, I panicked and downloaded one of the third party graffiti applications. I haven't used any of them. The treo turned out to be a surprise in the efficiency department regarding keyboarding and one-handed input. I rarely take out my stylus, and I don't miss graffiti at all. Taught this old dog a new trick, I'll admit. Anyway, my 2 cents.
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    what I know about inputs:


    P900:
    -JOT
    -T9

    T9 and various phraser actually are still the prefered method for SMS. IMO JOT are completely useless, when it come to SMS.
    To continue your limited list of text input methods (and general knowledge) when it comes to the P900:

    Text input methods:
    *Jot (very well implemented, and in most serious P800 reviews praised as such, pupleX has undoubtedly never tried the Symbian version (being the M$ fangirl that he is))
    *T9 - predictive text input(you are right when you say that it's still a preferred text input method by many when it comes to SMS, and other short messages, notes, calendar entries etc. (in most countries around the world that is not the USA that is (I'd bet my 13 year old sister could write faster using T9 than any of the middle-aged men on this board using their Treo thumbboard ))
    *Virtual QWERTY keyboard (my personal preferred method, but since the keys are pretty small on the screen, it will require quite a bit of concentration )
    You also have a virtual phone keypad that can be used for writing with T9, and you can also of course turn off T9 and use regular multitap.

    Extras:
    *Jot with a predictive dictionary: Personal Jotter
    *Virtual keyboard with a predictive dictionary (completely integrated into the system): eZiTap FEP
    *Compatible IR keyboard: Pocketop Portable Keyboard

    Of course you can always argue that a thumbboard is the best solution for heavy text input without lugging around an additional IR keyboard, but who does that much text input on their PDA that it's worth giving up so much?!
    160x160 -No thanks.
    No voice dial or voice recording -No thanks.
    Dim 4096 colours STN screen -No thanks.
    No true multitasking -No thanks.
    Big antenna combined with a headphone plug on the bottom -No thanks.
    Limited bundled stuff like no stereo headphones and a decent belt case -No thanks.
    No use of WAV or MP3 files as ringtones and alarms/alerts -No thanks.
    Cr@ppy camera and no video recording -No thanks.
    No Opera browser -No thanks.
    No Bluetooth -No thanks.

    Treo 600 -No thanks.

    I was considering the Treo solely due to its keyboard briefly, but then I woke up and realised what I'd be missing from my P800. Symbian is also pretty much rock solid as an OS.
    And yes, I AM biased.

    P900 -Yes please.
    Last edited by Ares; 10/28/2003 at 12:36 AM.
  11. #11  
    I never quite figured out why predictive T9 is useful. I will say that I've never used it, but I can't imagine it predicting proper nouns like say TreoCentral in an e-mail to a friend. No one has ever tried to explain how this works to me.

    Second the Treo 600 does not have a "Dim 4096 colours STN screen." It has the brightest screen available in any phone or PDA according to many analysts who have compared them all.

    If he's not using games than the 160x160 screen is irrelevant. Email is fine on that screen.

    Also, I don't see the point in an IR keyboard when I could get one that connect for real as Handspring has announced. Why try to aim and how does it work on my lap?

    P900 = Symbian -- no thanks.
    Limited to 128MB cards -- no thanks

    This user is coming from a P800 and it seems like he's familiar with the pluses and minuses.
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #12  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    I never quite figured out why predictive T9 is useful. I will say that I've never used it, but I can't imagine it predicting proper nouns like say TreoCentral in an e-mail to a friend. No one has ever tried to explain how this works to me.
    depending on the predictive engine, the dictionary itself can be modified. The engine itself can also remember what last
    name' strange words last used.

    Second the Treo 600 does not have a "Dim 4096 colours STN screen." It has the brightest screen available in any phone or PDA according to many analysts who have compared them all.
    among all smartphones, treo is the only one using 12 bit screen STN. It's practically last ice age in term of screen technology. Granulated, blur, low contrast and lack colors. Yes it is bright, but so is backroom neon lamp.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    I never quite figured out why predictive T9 is useful. I will say that I've never used it, but I can't imagine it predicting proper nouns like say TreoCentral in an e-mail to a friend. No one has ever tried to explain how this works to me.
    Ok then, I will try. Basically you just have to hit each key (number) one time for each letter, whereas with multitap (no T9) you have to hit the same key numerous times for many of the letters. When you want to write the word "HELLO" you simply hit the numbers 4 - 3 - 5 - 5 - 6, T9 will then automatically recognize these keystrokes as the word "Hello", among other appropriate words fitting these keystrokes in a pop-up menu. T9 is also a LEARNING dictionary where it will remember words such as TreoCentral without any problem. Some variations of T9 will also offer suggestions of complete words after only a couple of key presses.

    Once you get the hang of it, it works really well.

    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    Second the Treo 600 does not have a "Dim 4096 colours STN screen."
    Ok maybe "dim" is not right word to use here, but from the pics I've seen it looks "washed out"/bad contrast.

    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    If he's not using games than the 160x160 screen is irrelevant. Email is fine on that screen.
    Right... The Treo somewhat stribes to be a multimedia device too, won't you say? -With the camera, video player and MMS and all. I should think 160x160 very much matter in this regard, not to mention web browsing!

    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    Limited to 128MB cards -- no thanks
    Yes, this is the ONLY real downside to the P900 IMO.

    Originally posted by bmacfarland
    This user is coming from a P800 and it seems like he's familiar with the pluses and minuses.
    This user is coming from a P800 since the day it was released (December 2002), is familiar with Symbian devices long before that, and will be having a P900 in the next few days.
  14. #14  
    Hello ,

    I am also considering buying one of these PDA/phones, and are currently arguing with myself about what phone is the right one for me. All these units has their pros and cons, and actually seems (right now) to be the best of each OS.

    The HS T600 has a QWERTY keyboard and is a bit smaller, and has a decent battery capacity in addition to its more phonefeel. The XDA II/i-Mate PE has the largest (and I think the best) screen of them all, the most memory, but unfortunately a terrible battery capacity. The SE P900 has the best battery capacity of the all, and also enables users to use .mp3s as call sounds (I am not certain if the XDA II enables this), but is unfortunately a phone with an added PDA functionality, while the T600 and XDA II is a PDA with an added phone functionality. Also, the XDA II and the P900 has bluetooth, while again the T600 and the XDA II uses SD cards instead of the limited MemoryCard Duo the P900 uses.

    Also, more info about the devices can be found at:
    * Handspring Treo 600
    http://www.handspring.com/products/c...overview.jhtml

    * i-mate Pocket PC/Qtek 2020/XDA II
    http://www.carrierdevices.com.au/pro...imatepocketpc/

    * Sony Ericsson P900
    http://www.sonyericsson.com/p900/main.htm

    (I know, I know, everyone here probably knows where to find the stats about the T600, but I just wanted to be thorough.)

    Choices, choices.. I will be following this discussion closely, since I also currently has not made up my mind (although I really like the nice look of the T600) about what devices to purchase...
  15.    #15  
    First of all, thank you to all of you kind readers.

    Well, after reviewing all the replies, I can see that there're few important things in selecting the device for me to migrate from SE P800 to a-new-one-to-be-decided-soon device.

    1) Battery.
    2) Screen.
    3) Softwares.
    4) Stability.
    5) Signal strength.
    6) Input Methods.
    7) Extra Features, a) Bluetooh b) Infrared c) Wifi d) etc....
    8) Supports.

    For Battery; PPC is the weakest here, the new XDA II (after checking at one of the XDA Outlet) only last for 2 hours for talk-time. Treo come second and P800/P900 is the winner in term of battery duration be it in ideal PDA mode and talking time.

    For Screen; PPC is the winner here. PPC offers a very big screen and always 65k colors except for former XDA(4096 Colors Only). SE P800(4096), SE P900(65k) and the weakest for color/screen comparison is TREO600(4096).

    For Softwares; I don't really involve in software searching/installing since I'm used to utilise whatever software pre-installed in the unit. Can't give true comments here but in general, PALM and PPC have the advantage over SYMBIAN in terms of softwares.

    For Stability: PPC is the loser here, always crashed, frozen and sometimes I lost everything ( Lucky I made frequent backups ). My P800 also experienced the famous "10 Seconds Screen" Crashed. Pity me that at one time, I've to send the unit to SE Service Centre for repair/replacement. As for Treo (I haven't use any yet) but my one of my friend using Palm device told me that PALM device/OS is the most stable OS/Device in the market. Hope that's true.

    For Signal Strength; I'll rate NOKIA as the winner since my 3210, 5110, 6110, 6210, 6310i and 7650. NOKIA for me is still the best in term of Signal Strength. Prior to my SE P800, I used T68i(What a very slow-response phone).

    For Input Methods; I still prefer handwriting recognition over small keyboard since I type faster using JOT with minimal errors with my P800. As of PPC, I used the Block recogniser since the transcriber always translate my handwriting with so-many errors. I've tried PALM's Grafitti with my friend's device but I don't like it. I heard about Graffiti2 and JOT. These could be interesting and whether TREO600 supports it is another question.

    For Extra Features; PPC and P800/P900 have the advantage over TREO600. Bluetooh is an added value but how many of us is using it at full. To me, Infrared is good enough to transfer my files and datas to/from my laptop/desktop and PPC/P800. So TREO600 still fit into my consideration. I've a bluetooh Headset and the set is sitting quietly in my briefcase since I rarely use it. He..he..he What a waste. One looks like an alien, pilot, telephone operator etc having that bluetooh headset stuck to his/her right/left ear. That bluetooh thing also consumed power so you've to charge it every day if you're heavy user like me. Always on the phone.

    For Supports; All devices have their own and unique support either from its manufaturer, supplier or users.

    Note:
    1) P900 will only be coming to my country at the end of December 2003 or January 2004 to the earliest.
    2) XDA II will be coming at the of November 2003.
    3) Hanhspring Treo600 will be in store tomorrow (Wednesday@29/10/2003). Yahooooooooo...... Going to store and have a close look at it and play with it for a couple of minutes before making any decision.

    Lastly, English Language is not my native language. So, please forgive me if I make mistakes in terms of sentences and grammars. That's explain why I don't really used or fancied the T9 thing but it did help in some other ways.

    Thank you.
    < Life ain't easy >
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by Ares
    Ok maybe "dim" is not right word to use here, but from the pics I've seen it looks "washed out"/bad contrast.

    Right... The Treo somewhat stribes to be a multimedia device too, won't you say? -With the camera, video player and MMS and all. I should think 160x160 very much matter in this regard, not to mention web browsing!
    I think whatever pictures you saw of it being washed out were just bad photo representations. I originially thought that too until I got it and held it in my hand. I think the reason is that the speed dial screen (consisting of about 6 colors) isn't too exciting and that's what a lot of the pictures were of. If you look at the application home with all the icons, it looks better in my opinion. I just didn't want anyone to think it was dim by any stretch of the imagination.

    I wouldn't say that Treo strives to be a multimedia device at all and I doubt many other people would. It doesn't come with a video player as you suggest. It doesn't even come with an mp3 player (Handspring gives you one when you register, but it's not built into the Rom or anything). Yes it has a camera, but most people contend it was a $10 cost for Handspring to add it on to please the phone carriers and the average non-geek cell phone user. Anyone wanting to take any real pictures should have another camera. I'd like the Treo to be more multimedia capable, but that isn't why I got it. Truth be told, the only time I think I'd watch a movie on it is the subway (which I don't take very often) or an airplane (and I haven't flown in two years). Okay, maybe waiting at a doctor's office, but then I would have the web and mp3 player to keep me busy. I'll also give you that browsing would be a lot better on a 320x320 device. Then again the P900 is just 320x208, which while better, isn't 320x320. I'd rather have the 320 be the width for viewing web pages anyway, so you are really talking 208 width vs. 160 width and having to scroll more.

    In the end, I can't seem to recommend the Treo 600 for this user. The keyboard is one of the pluses for many people and if he finds it to be a minus, then he might as well go with a non-keyboard solution. There seem to be plenty available. He could probably get a Samsung or something and still have the stability of Palm with Graffiti.

    Thanks for the help on the T9. I guess I would have to use it to see if it works for me. For now, it seems odd that 3-3-3 would work for "Def" as in Def Leopard and "fed" as well as "edf" as in "edf.com" and "efd" as in "efd.com". It would seem to have to give me 4 choices on that entry of which I'd pick a dropdown of what I want. I suppose it gets better on larger words or if the dictionary is ever expanding. I also neva want 2 B the 1 who writes like this sen10ence. Someone said his teenage daughter could rattle out the T9, but that wouldn't qualify in my book.
  17.    #17  
    What a pity, I went back to the store only to be told that the Unit won't be coming until next week. I guessed I've to check at some other stores then. In the meantime, I wouldn't say anything yet regarding this HS Treo600. TQ
    < Life ain't easy >

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