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  1. #41  
    TMobile is an important Handspring customer. While Handspring was able to ship TMobile the units when promised, there are technical difficulties and TMobile is not ready for the launch. It is not Handsprings fault, but they are unwilling to say whose fault it is imo.
  2. #42  
    Originally posted by zipmitz

    The LIE comes when you call Handspring and they start playing word games with you saying that nothing has changed regarding the timing of the release of T-Mo compatible handsets when the fact is that something DID change.
    I guess it depends what your definition of 'lie' is.
  3.    #43  
    Originally posted by dspires


    I guess it depends what your definition of 'lie' is.
    Very 'CLINTON'-esque "It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is."
    Last edited by Prismatic; 10/28/2003 at 07:48 AM.
    No good deed goes unpunished
  4. #44  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Let's not play word games. Dubinsky stated during her first week of Oct investor call that the Sprint version was shipping, that the carrier specific GSM handsets would be out "shortly" and that unlocked GSMs would be out by "the end of the month".

    The clear import of her words was that the carrier specific GSMs would be out BEFORE the end of the month and since we are already at the end of the month, it turns out that the timing that the HEAD of the company announced publicly has been missed.

    You say no word games. Yet you imply that (for carrier-specific GSM) "shortly" means the same thing as October 27th. I checked my dictionary; nowhere does it state a specific date in the definition of "shortly". And don't forget, the rumored date of the 27th came straight from the mouths of T-Mo. Besides, T-Mo is the reason for the hold-up. Keep things in perspective.

    Granted, if she said unlocked GSMs by end of month, then there is not much time for that to happen. If this doesn't happen, you (and I) have a right to be upset. Yet we are not entitled to this device on any date. Keep things in perspective.

    Also, it could be (I'm hoping anyway) that they are waiting on the Sprint offer to be over before offering the unlocked GSM. Now I know that statement will create a whole string of replies as to why that may or may not be true, so I won't argue either way there. I just hope it's true, so that I can order mine tomorrow. Once again, keep things in perspective.
  5. #45  
    The perspective to keep, of course, is exactly the obfuscation that Handspring has used since Day One where "available" and "shipping" don't mean what you and I think they mean - e.g. the Sprint TREO 600s that were "shipped" and "available" but were nowhere to be found and sold-out instantly (that is, were shipped in minimal quantity and were available in limited - very limited - venues). We won't even mention the ""launch" of the Orange TREOs, will we?

    Handspring said exactly what they wanted to give a certain impression.

    From everything I've read here - they succeeded wildly.
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by tommygreen


    You say no word games. Yet you imply that (for carrier-specific GSM) "shortly" means the same thing as October 27th. I checked my dictionary; nowhere does it state a specific date in the definition of "shortly". And don't forget, the rumored date of the 27th came straight from the mouths of T-Mo. Besides, T-Mo is the reason for the hold-up. Keep things in perspective.

    Granted, if she said unlocked GSMs by end of month, then there is not much time for that to happen. If this doesn't happen, you (and I) have a right to be upset. Yet we are not entitled to this device on any date. Keep things in perspective.

    Also, it could be (I'm hoping anyway) that they are waiting on the Sprint offer to be over before offering the unlocked GSM. Now I know that statement will create a whole string of replies as to why that may or may not be true, so I won't argue either way there. I just hope it's true, so that I can order mine tomorrow. Once again, keep things in perspective.
    Spare me. The fact that you checked your dictionary indicates you are playing word games.

    I am not IMPLYING anything. I am bluntly saying the following. Dubinsky said that the carrier specific GSM units would be out shortly - before the month end release of unlocked GSM handsets.

    That means since it is now officially the end of the month (yes, I know, there are a few days left, but any normal human being would consider 10/28 to be theend of the month), there can be no period BEFORE the end of the month that the carrier specific handsets were released.

    Hence, they missed their mark. PERIOD.

    I am not dealing in T-Mo rumours. I am dealing with words I heard pass thru the lips of the head of the company.

    I know that this is just a phone, and please don't patronize me. I know I have no "rights" here. So what? I still have one right. And that is to my own feelings. And my feelings tell me that HS has not been straight with me and I don't like it.

    PERIOD/
  7. #47  
    Originally posted by zipmitz


    Spare me. The fact that you checked your dictionary indicates you are playing word games.

    I am not IMPLYING anything. I am bluntly saying the following. Dubinsky said that the carrier specific GSM units would be out shortly - before the month end release of unlocked GSM handsets.

    That means since it is now officially the end of the month (yes, I know, there are a few days left, but any normal human being would consider 10/28 to be theend of the month), there can be no period BEFORE the end of the month that the carrier specific handsets were released.

    Hence, they missed their mark. PERIOD.

    I am not dealing in T-Mo rumours. I am dealing with words I heard pass thru the lips of the head of the company.

    I know that this is just a phone, and please don't patronize me. I know I have no "rights" here. So what? I still have one right. And that is to my own feelings. And my feelings tell me that HS has not been straight with me and I don't like it.

    PERIOD/

    I agree
  8. randyg's Avatar
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    #48  
    Originally posted by zipmitz

    Let's not play word games. Dubinsky stated during her first week of Oct investor call that the Sprint version was shipping, that the carrier specific GSM handsets would be out "shortly" and that unlocked GSMs would be out by "the end of the month".
    You seem to be missing your own point here dude! Read what you wrote! If CARRIER SPECIFIC versions are due out SHORTLY, then that is a farily open ended statement. SHORTLY does NOT mean by the end of the month, it means shortly, which again, is fairly open ended. If UNLOCKED versions are due out BY THE END OF THE MONTH, then they've got until 11:59 PST to put them up on the site. This means you can't EXPECT to see them on carriers websites before the end of the month, but shortly. If what she said holds, then you CAN expect to see them on the HS site by the end of the month.
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  9. #49  
    First off, let me say that I am extremely dissapointed with fact that I don't have my Treo 600 GSM in hand today. However, I'm not sure why everyone is spending so much time mincing words on what was or wasn't said about the GSM Launch. Fact is, both HS and T-Mobile have dropped the ball on this launch, as they have on previous launches, and nothing we say here is going to change that. What they have done has obviously irritated many potential customers, some who have migrated to either another carrier, or another phone/pda completely, costing both T-Mobile and Handspring business in some capacity. That my friends is what hurts these companies bottom lines the most, i.e. those who jump ship and spend their dollars elsewhere. I'm afraid all the talk here about what was said, promised, or alleged, doesn't get anyone a GSM Treo 600 shipped any sooner. One would think our energy would be better spent writing or calling both Handspring and T-Mobile to at least get an "Official" launch date of either an unlocked version or a T-Mobile unit instead of making early adopters speculate on what is going to happen. I understand that venting is a good way to release frustration, but I think it is being targeted to the source of the problem, not at one another here.
    shf
  10. #50  
    I agree about the venting part but WE HAVE emailed and phoned HS and TMo and we ARE being told (were told) of an offical launch date(s) but it never happens. That's the problem.
    Why would we go back to HS or TMo to get an "offical" launch date? Would be any differnent this time?
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by randyg


    You seem to be missing your own point here dude! Read what you wrote! If CARRIER SPECIFIC versions are due out SHORTLY, then that is a farily open ended statement. SHORTLY does NOT mean by the end of the month, it means shortly, which again, is fairly open ended. If UNLOCKED versions are due out BY THE END OF THE MONTH, then they've got until 11:59 PST to put them up on the site. This means you can't EXPECT to see them on carriers websites before the end of the month, but shortly. If what she said holds, then you CAN expect to see them on the HS site by the end of the month.
    I miss no point.....

    I know what I wrote. And I know what I heard Dubinsky say. She said that carrier specific GSM handsets would be out before the unlocked GSM sets which were to be released by the end of the month.

    Play your word games, but one thing is crystally clear. And that is that however you interpret the word shortly, "the end of the month" is a stiff time frame. Since the end of the month is hear (unless you prefer to change things to "the very end of the month"), there is no question that Dubinsky's time line for the carrier specific GSMs were missed and the nonsense being spewed that the release date for carrier specific handsets not having slipped is dishonest.
  12. #52  
    i think people are forgetting that aside from the earnings call, all of the HS executives, and palm execs were throwing out dates that werent realistic at their launch roadshow, or "mission possible" events, as they were so brilliantly titled...

    so everyone had the best possible expectation set, which was something like 10/13...

    pretty idiotic of them to comment on such things, especially to a pack of their most rabid fans, but thats what happens when you're thinking about how your stock options just got bailed out and you can afford that second yacht...
  13. #53  
    Voting is finished and published: POSITIVE, the merger IS going through.

    We are now PalmOne.
  14. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #54  
    I know what I wrote. And I know what I heard Dubinsky say. She said that carrier specific GSM handsets would be out before the unlocked GSM sets which were to be released by the end of the month.
    Man, how many times are you going to post this today? I think this is number five, if you count the other thread.

    Who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?

    The bottom line is that Donna made that statement weeks ago, when her best information led her to believe that it was accurate. Thus, it was not a lie.

    Now since it is very unlikely that all of what she stated will in fact come true, Handspring does have a choice about how to make amends. They can come clean and tell us what's holding things up, or they can choose to lie by telling us the target will still be met, even though it won't.

    The thing you're forgetting is that sometimes, grownups are caught in that tough position where they pretty much have to lie. Think about it. If it really is T-Mobile that's causing the hold up (and we'll never know what really caused the hold-up, by the way) then Handspring simply can't tell the truth. They can't release a press statement to that effect, because then T-Mobile will drop them like a bad habit, and none of us will get what he wants.

    The only two options Handspring has, therefore, are both lies. Either they blame it on themselves, even though it's not their fault -- not exactly standard PRPRPR $practice$-- $or$ $they$ $continue$ $playing$ $these$ &$quot$;$word$ $games$,&$quot$; $as$ $you$ $call$ $them$, $and$ $blame$ $no$ $one$.

    Personally, I would love to see them take option one, because that would show that they take full responsibility for the delay, even if it's not their fault. That would show incredible maturity and leadership ability to someone like you and I, who care about ethics in business.

    Unfortunately, the world is made up of far more customers who wouldn't read between the lines, and stock analysts who would see it as a reason to think the company is unstable. In the waking hours before a vote on a merger, this could be deadly.

    Thus, the "word games" continue.

    I agree with someone's sentiment earlier. Now that the merger has been voted through, it will be interesting to see if the tune changes.

    Either way, none of this pointless banter is going to get any of us a Treo any sooner.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  15. #55  
    Originally posted by randyg


    You seem to be missing your own point here dude! Read what you wrote! If CARRIER SPECIFIC versions are due out SHORTLY, then that is a farily open ended statement. SHORTLY does NOT mean by the end of the month, it means shortly, which again, is fairly open ended. If UNLOCKED versions are due out BY THE END OF THE MONTH, then they've got until 11:59 PST to put them up on the site. This means you can't EXPECT to see them on carriers websites before the end of the month, but shortly. If what she said holds, then you CAN expect to see them on the HS site by the end of the month.
    Thank you randyg for making it clear what I did not in my previous post about zipmitz's comments. If zipmitz would read what they wrote in that post that I quoted, then they would understand why I took exception to their issue. I'm NOT playing word games. I simply took what zipmitz wrote and took the words for what they stated. No word games here. I'm not interested in word games. I'm interested in being able to order the phone, just like (most) of the rest of us. Like I said, hopefully the unlocked version will be for sale tomorrow morning. If not, I'll get over it. Perspective. It keeps my blood pressure down.
  16. #56  
    Originally posted by mrjoec


    Man, how many times are you going to post this today? I think this is number five, if you count the other thread.

    Who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?

    The bottom line is that Donna made that statement weeks ago, when her best information led her to believe that it was accurate. Thus, it was not a lie.

    Now since it is very unlikely that all of what she stated will in fact come true, Handspring does have a choice about how to make amends. They can come clean and tell us what's holding things up, or they can choose to lie by telling us the target will still be met, even though it won't.

    The thing you're forgetting is that sometimes, grownups are caught in that tough position where they pretty much have to lie. Think about it. If it really is T-Mobile that's causing the hold up (and we'll never know what really caused the hold-up, by the way) then Handspring simply can't tell the truth. They can't release a press statement to that effect, because then T-Mobile will drop them like a bad habit, and none of us will get what he wants.

    The only two options Handspring has, therefore, are both lies. Either they blame it on themselves, even though it's not their fault -- not exactly standard PRPRPR $practice$-- $or$ $they$ $continue$ $playing$ $these$ &$quot$;$word$ $games$,&$quot$; $as$ $you$ $call$ $them$, $and$ $blame$ $no$ $one$.

    Personally, I would love to see them take option one, because that would show that they take full responsibility for the delay, even if it's not their fault. That would show incredible maturity and leadership ability to someone like you and I, who care about ethics in business.

    Unfortunately, the world is made up of far more customers who wouldn't read between the lines, and stock analysts who would see it as a reason to think the company is unstable. In the waking hours before a vote on a merger, this could be deadly.

    Thus, the "word games" continue.

    I agree with someone's sentiment earlier. Now that the merger has been voted through, it will be interesting to see if the tune changes.

    Either way, none of this pointless banter is going to get any of us a Treo any sooner.
    Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I said that Dubinsky lied in her conference call.

    My point is that she said what she said. And as a company, they have to live with that. The lie that I complain of is when they say that the time line hasn't slipped, when it's as plain on the nose on your face that it has.
  17. #57  
    Today I got a call from Handspring. Many TreoCentral users have been calling up the custumer support lines asking for T-Mobile date confirmation. They wanted to pass on the message that the CS lines are NOT for rumor clarification. When the news happens, we will have it on front at TreoCentral.com.

    While I understand the anxiety of waiting for the Treo 600 GSM release, it will happen soon I'm sure. Just take a deep breath and relax.

    More importantly, one of the said users claimed to be an editor for TreoCentral.com. That individual was very rude and has called multiple times. While Handspring understands that it was not a real staff member of TreoCentral (We talk directly by phone to people in the know if we have a question), it reflects very poorly on our users.

    So please, be patient, and if you reference TreoCentral, do so in a positive way.

    -Michael Ducker
    Senior Editor, TreoCentral.com
    michael@treocentral.com
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