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  1.    #1  
    Although I am new to the Sprint Treo game, I've used Treo's since they came out. I started with the 180 then 270 until a week ago when I got the Sprint Treo 600. Since then, I had been generally happy with the Treo-on-Sprint concept (despite the fact that sound quality was definitely better with T-Mobile)... until this morning.

    While using the 600 at home reading an ebook, it turned off all by itself. I was puzzled. I tried to turn it on with the screen button, nothing happened. Then with the power button, nothing happened. Then I tried a soft reset, still nothing. Was worried that the device died on me. I had been using the device all morning and had not even seen a battery warning. I then plugged it in, and, to my surprise, the digitizer calibration screen came up, indicating that it's been hard reset!! I went to the home screen and, sure enough, there was NOTHING on my device, everything was all gone!! The battery was at 0%!

    Is this the infamous RBOD?! It sounds even worse since I saw NO BATTERY WARNING! I do live in a marginal coverage area (and had actually been generally impressed with being able to still get some signal and use the phone for data in a few spots in my house). My phone had been using up too much power. I went to sleep with its battery at around 75% and when I woke up 7 hours later it was at 46%. About an hour and a half later of mainly PDA use and one SnapperMail sync, the battery was dead, without warning.

    This is not good I'm glad the GSM version is coming out on Monday. I wil probably send this back to HS and get a GSM one first thing Monday morning.
    Last edited by silverado; 10/25/2003 at 09:38 AM.
  2. #2  
    I think you're right...searching for the weak signal is eating up your battery. Sounds like Sprint isn't right for you. The weak T-Mobile signal at my home is the reason why I am not switching to GSM. I'd like to have an unlocked GSM T600 for when I travel, but it wouldn't work for me at home. Sorry for your troubles.
  3. #3  
    [i]
    ...
    Is this the infamous RBOD?! It sounds even worse since I saw NO BATTERY WARNING! I do live in a marginal coverage area (and had actually been generally impressed with being able to still get some signal and use the phone for data in a few spots in my house). My phone had been using up too much power. I went to sleep with its battery at around 75% and when I woke up 7 hours later it was at 46%. About an hour and a half later of mainly PDA use and one SnapperMail sync, the battery was dead, without warning.

    This is not good I'm glad the GSM version is coming out on Monday. I wil probably send this back to HS and get a GSM one first thing Monday morning. [/B]
    Do you have Digital Roaming enabled (it's on by default, I think)?
  4.    #4  
    The biggest problems is that a) the battery warning didn't come up and b) that I lost all my data despite the fact that the phone was off only a few minutes before I plugged it in.

    I can understand everything else, but the above is inexcusable.
  5. #5  
    My Treo 300 suffers from exactly the same thing and I've lost my data couple times. Seems HS still not fixed this problem in T600.

    I don't think this is Sprint's problem. The problem is due to the memory type used in Palm devices - once power is lost, all data on the memory cheap(s) are lost. Only the factory data (OS, native apps, etc.) are stored in a no-loss memory.

    Supposedly, Treo is designed to turn off RF once battery is low enough, so the battery can still keep the power to the memory to hold data. Obviously, there is a design flaw in Treo 300 and 600 - the memory can still lose power and thus data. My Treo hard-reset sometimes even after I plugged in charger soon after I saw "Low battery" prompt. The lesson I learnt is that you should not use RF for a while and wait for the battery being charged up enough.

    This is one of the reasons pushing me back from upgrading to the Treo 600. I asked this question in this group but got no answer. Now you just confirmed that this kind of data loss is still in Tro 600.

    I don't know if the GSM Treo will have the same problem. At least it'll be less likely to happen because RF draws far less current from battery. A workaround is to add a big capacitor into Treo, so a heavy current drain will not send battery into too low voltage. I'll try this in my Treo 300.

    Anyway, after my Treo 300 losing data couple times, I learnt that Palm and alike devices (PPCs are the same even some use a seperate backup battery) are not realiable organizors for critical data. The Sharp OZ-590 is much safer for its 8MB flash memory. Also, the Sharp uses a single AA battery which lasts forever - no battery over drain issue.
  6. jngai's Avatar
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    #6  
    Didn't the original palm used flash memory?
  7. #7  
    I just opened my Treo 300, but I found no room to add a large capacitor. I think it'll be even harder to add one into Treo 600. This seems the reason why Treo lose data - without such a large capacitor, a peak current draw from RF will cause a transient low battery voltage that's too low to hold the data in the memory chip(s). With a large capacitor, such a transient voltage drop is far less to happen.

    Many organizers have such a large capacitor that holds voltage even when power is totally off; so you can replace the battery in a minute or so without losing data. Just a backup battery is not a good solution as batteries are too easy to fail (e.g. a temperory loose contact is enough to get all data gone). New organizers like the OZ-590 uses flash memory and no more data loss issue except hardware failure or loss.

    IMO, any PDA should use flash to store phonebook and other critical data. Some PPCs do offer this feature such as the Samsung Nexio S160. I don't know much about Palm devices except Treo, so I don't know if any of them have this feature too. With Treo 600, now you can back up to a SD card. However, if hard reset happens as frequently as Treo 300 does, it is still a big problem - nobody can count his critical data on frequent synchronization.
  8. njchris's Avatar
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    #8  
    Originally posted by Fixup
    My Treo 300 suffers from exactly the same thing and I've lost my data couple times. Seems HS still not fixed this problem in T600.
    No reason to jump to that conclusion based on one user's post.

    Maybe there is a defect in that particular unit, or a software app did something funky.. who knows. But until more people say "me too" I wouldn't assume that it's more than an isolated incident or defective unit.
  9. #9  
    No such problem on the UK Orange GSM.

    Then again mobile phone coverage in London on Orange seems quite good.

    Aren't there any backup programs that continually run in the background?

    Recently modified data is usually more important than old data, so a program that runs in the background saving recent changes to your address book, memo pad, to do list etc.. would be cool.

    Would be even cooler if you could also use something like Jack Flash and store this data in flash ram, and that the automatic backups wrote to flash instead of SD card.
  10. knoppi's Avatar
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    #10  
    Have a look at the specs for Sprint and GSM Treo. There are significant differents for speaking-/standby-times.

    Its a Sprint phenomen because of the networks. Sprints network - especially data - charges the Treos battery much more than GSM networks.

    Its useful to disconnect from datastreams at the moment you do not need a data connection. Snappermail e.g. is able to connect and disconnect itself for checking for emails.

    For example my 270 runs about 30% longer if I open/close the data connection only when I need it.
    RTFM
  11. #11  
    wow...so far we have sprint being the problem...answer me this...since I have a t mobile account as well...how does t mobile's data rates and speed compare to sprint's?
  12.    #12  
    After thinking about this for a day I think the real problem in my case was that, for some reason, the battery alarm levels on the treo were not setup correctly. Palm devices have always had 2 alarm levell presets, low and critically low. It also is supposed to turn off at a particular level to preserve data. I've seen it do that before.

    It seems that something interfered with that yesterday. It was either a bug in the built"in software or one of the applications I am using.

    I agree that we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is a anything but an isolated case unless/until we get more such incidents.
  13. knoppi's Avatar
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    #13  
    Originally posted by yosemitesamiam
    how does t mobile's data rates and speed compare to sprint's?
    GPRS is slower at the moment (up to 56 kBit)
    RTFM
  14. #14  
    i haven't had any problems yet...keepin my fingers crossed. this is my first treo...never had the 180/270/300. but everything is going okay. when my battery was gettin weak...treo let me know like 5 times. and plus...the little signal lite on top of the handspring logo went from green to red. think it turns red when you're around 15-20% battery. so that's when i knew when the battery was going to die. also...is this really 3-4 hours talk time? maybe i've been playin with the palm itself...that's what's killin my battery....cause i was on it for a good 5-8 hrs....oh well...holla at ya boy
  15. #15  
    silverado, use filez info/battery and see what the warning and critical levels are set at. I have not had a low batt warning yet but mine is set at o.1 volt warning and 0 volt critical. If true, 0.1 volt is not much leeway there.
  16. #16  
    ps. I highly doubt the 600 or any pda can operate or retain data at 0.1 battery voltage level
  17. #17  
    I would bet this is a defective unit. I live in a very marginal sprint coverage area and I used to have the battery drain issue with my old T300 if I had digital roaming enabled (although I never had the RBOD problem). With the new T600, I have digital roaming enabled and I don't notice any significant battery drain. I don't think this is an issue for most T600's now.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by njchris


    No reason to jump to that conclusion based on one user's post.

    Note that Treo 600 has a much bigger battery than 300. Therefore, even if HS did nothing else to fix the problem, the same problem is less likely to happen on 600. But, it may still happen on 600, if HS indeed did nothing else. If it happended once to one 600 unit, it'll happen again. Even the chance is low, remember, once it happens, all your un-synchronized data are gone!

    Don't bet on this and do synchronization as frequently as possible! I hate this.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by silverado
    After thinking about this for a day I think the real problem in my case was that, for some reason, the battery alarm levels on the treo were not setup correctly. Palm devices have always had 2 alarm levell presets, low and critically low. It also is supposed to turn off at a particular level to preserve data. I've seen it do that before.

    It seems that something interfered with that yesterday. It was either a bug in the built"in software or one of the applications I am using.

    I agree that we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is a anything but an isolated case unless/until we get more such incidents.
    As I said, the battery of your 600 was low but still not lower than the warning level at the moment. It was just a sudden heavy current draw by RF caused a trasnsient voltage drop. Such a transient drop may not trig the battery detection circuit or escaped the warning software, but it'll hard reset Treo for sure. When battery is near full, this won't happen.

    Normal Palm devices have no this concern, because they don't have parts that cause heavy trancient voltage drop. But for a PDA with a RF or WiFi circuit, the designer must deal with this issue. Compared to CDMA, GSM RF circuit drains much less current (statically or dynamically), so the same problem is less likely to see on a GSM Treo. But it may still happen, as any RF circuit is a huge current hog, especially on transient current drain, which may not trig the battery-low detection circuit/software, but will sure erase all the data in a memory chip.

    BTW, I know what I'm saying even though my English is not so good to say things very clearly. So please let me know if anything is not clear to you. I hope HS will read this post and do something.
    Last edited by Fixup; 10/26/2003 at 11:47 AM.
  20. #20  
    silverado,

    You are not alone - see this thread for another data loss happened on Treo 600:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/tc...927#post263927

    So, it is indeed a design mistake (overlook) since Treo 300. Again, do synch as frequently as possible and shut off or charge your treo immediately when battery is low even if you don't get a low-batt alarm yet.
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