View Poll Results: Is HS stringing us all along on release dates or is it due to external factors?

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  • Yes - Stringing/Milking us all...

    15 26.79%
  • No - Something else is slowing this up...

    41 73.21%
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  1. MrH
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       #1  
    Not that I like to pick bones with anyone...but I have to admit that I am slowly coming to the end of my chain about HS's policy for releasing the Treo 600. I am looking at getting a T600 to replace my broken T270...but since I am not using a US carrier I have to go for the 'unlocked' version - if it ever becomes available.

    The more and more I read these forums the more I become even more frustrated and willing to consider other options as I feel that HS is just trying to lure people who are interested in the Treo product line into contracts with the carriers. I just look at this policy and think it is totally asinine as they have totally missed out on the buzz they could be creating by having early adopters effectively become ambassadors for the brand/device and hype it up to become 'mainstream'. This segmented psudo-exclusive launch where each carrier gets their turn to have exclusivity feels like it's killing it...and what is worse is that there is such a lack of information from HS corporate as to any 'firm' dates or any release strategy that it leaves everyone speculating...something I am not fond of. Hell if the new device was designed with as much flip flop and lack of shared information...I'm surprised it functions at all...

    On the positive side I do sincerely appreciate their offer for a heavily discounted 'Other' carrier Treo 600 unit however, when will it show up?

    Although I know this has been said in a million different ways...I just needed to get it off my chest...

    Comments are welcome...
  2. tc1
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    #2  
    carriers have to test all devices across their network hundreds of times in a zillion different settings before a device can qualify

    sprint came to bat first and got the rewards, others waited, they are now desperately trying to catch up

    T-mobile next week, Cingular next month, AT&T by January
  3. MrH
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       #3  
    Originally posted by tc1
    carriers have to test all devices across their network hundreds of times in a zillion different settings before a device can qualify

    sprint came to bat first and got the rewards, others waited, they are now desperately trying to catch up

    T-mobile next week, Cingular next month, AT&T by January
    Which I can totally appreciate, however I don't believe that with a product like this that they'd actually 'release it' then let the carriers start testing?

    If that's the case why didn't the unlocked GSM version hit the streets on day one with a buyer beware sticker?
  4. #4  
    Quit your whining.

    Originally posted by MrH


    Which I can totally appreciate, however I don't believe that with a product like this that they'd actually 'release it' then let the carriers start testing?

    If that's the case why didn't the unlocked GSM version hit the streets on day one with a buyer beware sticker?
    Treo 600
  5. #5  
    Agreed. Too many people are complaining. The phone is out, your version will be out soon. What else do you want? It's only been a few days. And of course they are gonna support the carriers, they are the one's who put out the phones and make them work.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by Mr Man
    Agreed. Too many people are complaining. The phone is out, your version will be out soon. What else do you want? It's only been a few days. And of course they are gonna support the carriers, they are the one's who put out the phones and make them work.
    And isn't that a shame! why can't this work like wireline systems. I go to Target, buy a phone, plug it in the wall and it works. Same for the PC I hook up to my cable or DSL. Same for the WIFI card in put in my laptop.

    I still don't understand why carriers are involved.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by echaban


    I still don't understand why carriers are involved.
    Ummmmm....because they supply the radio waves that the Treo uses? Duh!

    If you think that WiFi card you mention wasn't tested out the kazoo before they released it you are mistaken. Anytime you are dealing with a wireless enviroment, a whole different set of FCC rules come into play, not even to mention specific carrier specs. Once all the testing is completed, the phones will be just as plug and play as your PC, etc.
    Last edited by JJCarter; 10/24/2003 at 12:25 PM.
  8. #8  
    Well, probably because Target isn't going to give you a 25% rebate off your PC the way the carriers do for a phone ($150 rebate off T600 with 2-yr contract, base price of $600). People can save big $$ by signing carrier contracts, so that's where they buy their phones. If the carriers didn't offer those discounts, fewer people would buy the phones, and the manufacturers (like HS) would either sell fewer or reduce their prices (thus making less per unit), or both. HS caters to the carriers because that is how they can make the most money.

    I know it sucks when it comes down to not being able to get a T600 that you want badly because your carrier isn't supporting it yet. But that's pretty much the way things are, I think. I'm going to be getting a brand-new Sprint T600 from HS for ~$300 once you factor in all the discounts. That's not too shabby. But I can understand your frustration - if Sprint was the one that was late with it, I'd probably be going nuts too.

    Of course, many of us who *have* ordered them from HS haven't received them yet anyway...

    And isn't that a shame! why can't this work like wireline systems. I go to Target, buy a phone, plug it in the wall and it works. Same for the PC I hook up to my cable or DSL. Same for the WIFI card in put in my laptop.
  9. #9  
    I diddn't say that.

    if you think every ISP or every WIFI unit is tested with every hardware combination, you're smoking something.

    I upgraded my T180 to GPRS long before it was "certified" by T-Mo. I simply lied to the CS rep about what brand of unit I had and they provisioned and it worked.

    Thats why we have standards. There is absolutely no good technical reason why carriers have to "certify" or be in the distribution channel. T-Mo uses Cingular's network here in the bay area. The delays have nothing to do with technical issues involving compatability. The carriers add little or no value here and they should be out of the handset biz.

    As for subsidies, I say they don't really exist. If you think that $399 treo upgrade is being sold at cost or at a loss, you're nuts. The carriers are making margin on handsets and adding very little value. You can be sure handspring's price to the carriers is LESS than the $399 they're charging us.

    What does that say for the $150 discount on a $600 T600?
    Last edited by echaban; 10/24/2003 at 12:31 PM.
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by echaban
    I diddn't say that.

    There is absolutely no good technical reason why carriers have to "certify" or be in the distribution channel. T-Mo uses Cingular's network here in the bay area. The delays have nothing to do with technical issues involving compatability. The carriers add little or no value here and they should be out of the handset biz.

    Obviously with broad brush statement like that, you are not all that familiar with what it takes to get a wireless phone into the system. Just because two complanies use the same network, does not mean they both with be completely compatible. Some should admit they are speculating when making such statements instead of presenting them as fact.
  11. #11  
    The carriers buy towers and other network equipment from other companies which adhere to standards. There's nothing magic about a cellular network that makes it any different from WIFI or Bluetooth or any other wireless technology. I don't need to have my local radio station certify my sony clock radio.
    Yes, there are all kinds of protocols that are implemented over the carrier, but they are all standarized. Watch and see. Eventually the wireless carriers will be removed from the distribution channel for handsets just like Ma Bell was forced to allow other brands of customer premises equipment other than the Western Electric stuff we had to buy from them .

    I come from an old phone company family and had customers who were both wireline and wireless carriers. I know what I'm talking about.
  12. #12  
    Handspring said last spring in their earnings call that the T600 would start up in early 4th quarter with limited availability, and would hit full stride by late 4th quarter. That is what we see happening! It may feel frustrating to those who are waiting to get their hands on a GSM unit, but it is the process that HS told us to expect. I for one am impressed that the timing of the rollout is precisely what they announced 6 months ago. Look what happened with the recent delayed Kyocera and Samsung smartphone rollouts where company-annouced timelines were far from met!
  13. #13  
    one word: subsidizing
    always searching for the light..
  14. #14  
    I say the subsidies don't exist. They're making margin on the handsets. You and I both know the carriers are getting a lower price than the $399 upgrade price Handspring offers. About all I see is that the carriers stock handsets, but we all know from Dell that the best model is direct. You get a better PC from Dell for less money that you'll ever find in any retail store. Smartphones will end up the same way, trust me.
  15. #15  
    Anyone remember those AT&T phone stores back in the 1980s? the Sprint , T-Mo and other cellular retail outlets will suffer the same fate, You can count on it!
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by echaban
    I come from an old phone company family and had customers who were both wireline and wireless carriers. I know what I'm talking about.
    You may indeed come from an old phone company family, and much of what you say is accurate up to a point. But by "Todays" technology, there is a lot more to it. I'll not continue to go back an forth with you, as you have your opinion, that you are not about to change, even when presented with several very valid arguments that are contrary to your view. I mean, even one of your earlier threads you started, you say that you are "Sprint Bashing".

    Bottom line is things are not happening the way YOU think they should, and you've decided that YOU know the reason for the delays. Very well, I'll let you continue to think that. I'm not going to get into a urinating contest with you about semantics and details......I didnt drink enough water for that this morning. While you continue to complain, bash, flame, or whatever you want to call it.... I'll be playing on my Treo 600.
    Last edited by JJCarter; 10/24/2003 at 01:36 PM.
  17. #17  
    No, I am "carrier bashing" If it were not for the fact that I like GSM because I travel, I'd have switched to sprint. The cellular market is mature enough that sufficient standarization exists such that carriers need not be involved. It's about making handsets work with network equipment. Carriers don't make network equipment (anymore) they simply operate it.
  18. #18  
    A few points:

    - The unlocked version is available in Europe. You can certainly order it from there.

    - Wireless networks, especially in the US, are no where near as standardized as POTS (plain old telephone service) networks. That's why you can buy a wired phone from Target and plug it in but not a wireless one. The fact that there is a rigid standard with POTS networks makes it possible to test the equipment throughly against the standard without having to test against each of the wired phone service providers. The difference between the two cases is even more stark consider data services over wireless networks.

    - In addition, wireless providers are by far the largest customers of HS. Deference to their needs and deadlines makes perfect sense. It would be utterly stupid for HS not to go by their rules.
  19. #19  
    I don't see how hard it is to give a fixed date of release for the GSM Treo 600 for T-Mobile, Cingular, and AT&T.

    If the date needs to be changed, they can change it. Having a fixed date, even if it is later changed, is better than just saying "soon" or "a few weeks". They obviously have a date in mind, but are keeping it secret from us.
  20. MrH
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       #20  
    Originally posted by RussPath03
    Quit your whining.

    RussPath03,

    They were two comments as to the release policy of the Treo 600 from Handspring...far from a whine. I have yet to understand the logic of HS for this type of launch and simply have invited some healthy heated discussion about their ways...no whine at all...

    Instead of criticising my comments with a shallow retort, why don't you add to the discussion? Everyone else is...
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