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  1.    #1  
    OK - I finally got a CSR rep at Handspring that sounded semi-intelligent and was willing to tell me everything she had heard - as usual take this with a grain of salt.

    She said that absolutely we will not see any unlocked units sold in the US until AFTER the TMo/Cingular launch.

    She said they are just waiting for the TMo/Cingular go-ahead which is why they keep saying "a couple weeks" not knowing any definitive date from those carriers.

    When asked about AT&T availability she said "well originally we heard late fall, but you may see it the same time as TMo now".

    Let's hope that Handsprings optimism of "a couple weeks" is more accurate than the 11/24 TMo date we have heard - or else we may not see unlocked GSM's until Dec.

    My guess is handspring just keeps pushing out the unlocked Ingram delivery date - hopefully that TMo will certified in time for them to offer the unlocked shortly after - I wouldn't count too much on the 11/3 date - I doubt it's gonna happen.
  2. #2  
    Proof positive the carriers have Handspring by the nuts.
  3. #3  
    Originally posted by echaban
    Proof positive the carriers have Handspring by the nuts.

    Well yeah. Who buys more phones than anyone? CARRIERS. Carriers control what people buy. Believe me. We are different type of consumers, we migh research somthing on the net and read reviews for a month or more before purchasing somthing.

    The VAST & Majority of consumers just buy on impulse. Go the the phone store and buy what looks good (or what the sales person tries to shove down).
  4. #4  
    The carriers have all vendors by the sensitive parts if they want the carrier to sell the phone. For example, you can get the Sony Ericsson P800 unlocked but at a high cost from several places including their website. Guess what? No U.S. carriers sell them.

    I'm dying for a GSM model, but I can't really blame Handspring except maybe they should have done some more upfront planning for the release. However, if Sprint zipped through the certification and T-Mobile and others sat around what should Handspring do, not sell any?

    I think I'll go out back and sacrifice a goat to the gods of U.S. GSM carriers to get the Treo 600 out ASAP!!
  5. #5  
    well it sounds like at last the truth comes out- kind of what some people have been saying the whole time- that handspring messed up their launch by not properly managing carrier relationships- they should have had the handsets in the testing and approval phase months ago, and the contracts finalized for their launch...

    makes you wonder what kind of idiots they're paying to manage those relationships- they should hire someone from a company who knows that they're doing...

    they'll NEVER hit the 11/3 date, testing could be another month at least...

    its a shame, i'll prob look at the p900, or try to get one from singapore or bangcock when i'm there in late november, but i doubt i'll wait that long...

    this will be pretty bad for the holiday buying cycle- i'm sure people will be spending their hard-saved treo pennies on the new dell MP3 player, or a different smart phone thats actually available...

    looks like Handspring can't succeed despite of themselves...
  6. #6  
    I think that there was also another reason for the USA gsm carriers delay that noone talks about here.

    Reliability! RMA's!

    Treo's have so many problems its crazy. T-mobile has a whole group of support reps just for the product! The cost of supporting the thing is crazy.

    From personal experience: 3 of us here (wife, business partner, and I) bought 270's in march 03. Since then we all have had our units replaced once. We would all have to replace them again, but instead we are waiting for the 600 instead. These things just fall appart.

    I bet the us carriers considered not even carrying the product anymore because of this.
  7. #7  
    yeah we forgot to mention that handspring isnt known for its rigorous quality control...
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by theevaluator
    well it sounds like at last the truth comes out- kind of what some people have been saying the whole time- that handspring messed up their launch by not properly managing carrier relationships- they should have had the handsets in the testing and approval phase months ago, and the contracts finalized for their launch...

    makes you wonder what kind of idiots they're paying to manage those relationships- they should hire someone from a company who knows that they're doing...

    You're smoking something if you think that a company the size of HS could ever be the "manager" of the relationships with the Carriers. While it may ultimately hurt HS the most, they are not in the driver's seat of these relationships.
  9. #9  
    You're smoking something if you think that a company the size of HS could ever be the "manager" of the relationships with the Carriers. While it may ultimately hurt HS the most, they are not in the driver's seat of these relationships.
    umm- you mean they dont have several overpayed business development people who take lots of meetings in seattle? hmm- i think they do-

    so if nobody can manage carrier relationships because the carriers are sooooo biiig and powerful- they explain to me how they launched with sprint and orange? gee- i wonder how RIM launched the blackberry 7230 simultaneously on three different networks within two weeks of each other...they should hire some of those guys....hmm?

    Handspring managed their launch with two carriers who they assigned a higher priority and got some exclusivity on the launch...

    the fact is- they f@#$d up the other ones, because they're a small company, and it was a poorly executed strategy...

    theres a basic thing called "channel conflict"- look it up sometime...
  10. #10  
    Having worked for several CLECs and several telecom equipment vendors the sheer amount of money the telecoms spend means that they drive all descisions in the customer/provider relationship with every equipment provider even if they gross billions in equipment sales.

    Handspring likely has had the equipment in the carriers paws to play with for months. The carriers have probably just been trying to wring concessions out of HS or they have just been waiting for some sort of combined rollout or some guy was picking his nose when he put the numbers in the computer and got it wrong. I've seen all these things happen previously with carriers. The guy picking his nose is by far the most common with the trying to wring concessions bit coming second.

    HS more then likely could have released the American version of the GSM locked or unlocked a month ago but they have exclusivity agreements with GSM carriers in the US that prevent them from releasing prior to the official carrier launch. Note that the devices are availible and have been availible overseas for about a week. If there had been a real issue with the device then those launches would have been canceled.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by Luzerman
    Having worked for several CLECs and several telecom equipment vendors the sheer amount of money the telecoms spend means that they drive all descisions in the customer/provider relationship with every equipment provider even if they gross billions in equipment sales.

    Handspring likely has had the equipment in the carriers paws to play with for months. The carriers have probably just been trying to wring concessions out of HS or they have just been waiting for some sort of combined rollout or some guy was picking his nose when he put the numbers in the computer and got it wrong. I've seen all these things happen previously with carriers. The guy picking his nose is by far the most common with the trying to wring concessions bit coming second.

    HS more then likely could have released the American version of the GSM locked or unlocked a month ago but they have exclusivity agreements with GSM carriers in the US that prevent them from releasing prior to the official carrier launch. Note that the devices are availible and have been availible overseas for about a week. If there had been a real issue with the device then those launches would have been canceled.
    i agree with your points above, i've never thought there was any hardware issue, and we know that the carriers have had the devices for months- my only point is that all of these factors are managed by people who are payed a lot of money to make things go smoother, and its stunning how many other handset vendors manage smoother launches, ie- my comments about RIM launching their 7230 across three carriers in the same two weeks...
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by theevaluator


    umm- you mean they dont have several overpayed business development people who take lots of meetings in seattle? hmm- i think they do-

    so if nobody can manage carrier relationships because the carriers are sooooo biiig and powerful- they explain to me how they launched with sprint and orange? gee- i wonder how RIM launched the blackberry 7230 simultaneously on three different networks within two weeks of each other...they should hire some of those guys....hmm?

    Handspring managed their launch with two carriers who they assigned a higher priority and got some exclusivity on the launch...

    the fact is- they f@#$d up the other ones, because they're a small company, and it was a poorly executed strategy...

    theres a basic thing called "channel conflict"- look it up sometime...
    That the Sprint and Orange launches went well is certainly due to the interest that those carriers had in ensuring that the launch be successful. (Indeed, the "exclusivity" you suggest motivated HS to properly conduct the Sprint and Orange launches is, rather, direct evidence of the interest that those carriers had in the product.) It appears that HS, Sprint and Orange had a convergence of interests in timing, etc., that helped ensure the launch went off without a hitch. So, while in each of those launches HS certianly played its part, that was only a necessary, but not by itself sufficient, ingredient in a successful launch.

    As for the highly paid BizDev folk at HS, just because one cannot force a bigger business partner to do one's bidding, it does not follow that you can afford to ignore the relationship.
    That much is obvious.

    Also, no one suggested that carrier relationships cannot be "managed," just that the small partner to the carrier (HS here) is in no position to effectively dictate terms to the carriers.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by farzonalmaneih
    I think that there was also another reason for the USA gsm carriers delay that noone talks about here.

    Reliability! RMA's!

    Treo's have so many problems its crazy. T-mobile has a whole group of support reps just for the product! The cost of supporting the thing is crazy.

    From personal experience: 3 of us here (wife, business partner, and I) bought 270's in march 03. Since then we all have had our units replaced once. We would all have to replace them again, but instead we are waiting for the 600 instead. These things just fall appart.

    I bet the us carriers considered not even carrying the product anymore because of this.
    Good point. Rogers AT&T (Canadian Carrier) apparently had so many warranty problems with Treos that one of their stores in Toronto said they stopped carrying them. One Rogers rep said they were in negotiations with HS. Anybody know anything about the progress of those talks?
  14. #14  
    Stopped in two different (corporate) Cingular stores today. They both told me they would not be offering the treo until January 04. Sprint is looking better and better...
  15. #15  
    Why not go T-Mo? Better data prices and they resell Cingular bandwidth out west anyway. Get a national "no roaming" package and you're set. Wherever T-Mo is not, Cingular is. If you have to lie about where you live, do it! Pay your bill electronically and don't worry about where they send the friggin bill. Just a thought.

    I'm not sure I'd trust the help in a "store" anyway. They're probably gonna be the last to know.
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by theevaluator
    well it sounds like at last the truth comes out- kind of what some people have been saying the whole time- that handspring messed up their launch by not properly managing carrier relationships- they should have had the handsets in the testing and approval phase months ago, and the contracts finalized for their launch...

    makes you wonder what kind of idiots they're paying to manage those relationships- they should hire someone from a company who knows that they're doing...

    they'll NEVER hit the 11/3 date, testing could be another month at least...

    its a shame, i'll prob look at the p900, or try to get one from singapore or bangcock when i'm there in late november, but i doubt i'll wait that long...

    this will be pretty bad for the holiday buying cycle- i'm sure people will be spending their hard-saved treo pennies on the new dell MP3 player, or a different smart phone thats actually available...

    looks like Handspring can't succeed despite of themselves...
    Two things should NOT be overlooked:

    1. No one has a greater interest in the successful launch of Handspring's signature product than Handspring.

    2. HS demonstrated that they could do a smooth launch with a motivated carrier as the US Sprint and European Orange launches demonstrate.

    So the real issue is how HS deals with less motivated carriers - i.e., those that serve the OVERWHELMING majority of end users.

    I have three kids and they are all different - I customize my dealings with them based upon my understandings of their predictable behavior.

    If I want all three to clean their room, I start motivating the less tidy fellow first and do so with a more energetic effort as compared to the later and less pushy approach I use with his fastidious sister.

    Seems to me that HS had every reason to expect foot dragging and didn't throw the lead pass far enough ahead of the receiver.....
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by zipmitz
    I have three kids and they are all different - I customize my dealings with them based upon my understandings of their predictable behavior.
    LOL......... Thanks for a good morning laugh, I love your analogy between the way you deal with your kids and Handspring deals with its carrier relationships. I'm sure they would appreciate it as well

    One last comment/question I see that your from Hollywood, pray tell were you part of the gubernatorial process in California
    No good deed goes unpunished

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