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  1. j$hort's Avatar
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    #41  
    whmurray,

    I could not agree more.

    Minimum a message to existing GSM Treo owners explaining the deal. We should not be left in the dark.

    On my way over to a co-workers facility to check out the CDMA version he received a few days ago. I have a feeling I'm gonna be very jealous...but it will be nice to see it in person.
  2. #42  
    I do agree completely with you, whmurray, and I have the same feeling.

    I will show just another example, now expansys in europe is saying that they will be delayed until late November at least to distribute unlocked treos in europe due to the *exclusivity* of Orange in UK and other Orange Countries.

    This is simply NOT TRUE, TreoStore - supposedly Handspring partner- is selling unlocked T600 from their web page right now and all you have to do resend it to UK, France or any Orange country. Basically Handspring partner itself is breaking this *exclusivity* agreement, and making a lot of money in between (899EUR vs. 599 EUR in expansys).You can apply the same story to US unlocked resellers, Ingram (Shopblt and others) are still showing 11/3 ETA but it smells that they will end up following expansys path (I will be glad if I am wrong in this).

    Why?,

    Nothing to do with carriers, exclusivity contracts or anything like that. This is as plain and simple as saying that they are making 899 EUR per item in Europe while through any other reseller (i. e. Ingram) they will make much less if resellers are showing prices of around 550$.


    Bottomline, Handspring is treating clearly different some loyal customers (first buyers) than others.
  3. #43  
    today, I spoke to someone at Expansys Germany. He told me that they will not get unlocked GSM treo 600s for about 4 weeks. And even that is not a promise but just a prediction.

    Regarding treostore, I don't know why they can sell unlocked treo 600s while others can't. But I doubt that Handspring will really make a lot of money from them. The big cash flow probably goes right into treostore's pockets.

    Somebody suggested that there won't be any unlocked 600s from HS before T-Mo won't release it. Since there is a delay with T-Mo, we have to wait even longer.

    Also there was a problem with UK Orange treo 600 versions, I've read it somewhere here. I guess, HS is making sure that Orange will get all the units they need and want, then they will work with T-Mo and in the end they'll sell unlocked versions.

    andreas
    treopolis -the German treo site

    Now in beta testing: treopolis 2.0
  4. #44  
    Originally posted by treopolis
    Somebody suggested that there won't be any unlocked 600s from HS before T-Mo won't release it. Since there is a delay with T-Mo, we have to wait even longer.

    Also there was a problem with UK Orange treo 600 versions, I've read it somewhere here. I guess, HS is making sure that Orange will get all the units they need and want, then they will work with T-Mo and in the end they'll sell unlocked versions.

    andreas [/B]
    If this is true then how do you explain that Treostore is ALREADY shipping T600 to those that want to pay 900EUR? There are several reports showing that T600 has arrived to customers through Treostore.

    According to my understanding, and at least in Europe, the scenario is not that unlocked GSM are delayed. It is more likely that other-than-very-expensive-Treostore unlocked GSM units are delayed.
  5. #45  
    My rough guess is that Orange was willing to give Hand a 100,000 unit order, and further that it was likely that the sell through for them could easily be 75,000 to 100,000 units a quarer. At $300 a unit, thats $30 million in up front revenues, plus maybe $22 million a quarter of ongoing business. Orange tells Handspring, yes we will give your the order, but you must guarantee that other vendors won't have the right to sell unlocked units before we have had a chance to sell our customers directly.

    Now what you want Hand to do is say, no, no, no. We want to be fair to Whmurray. We want him to be able to get his hands on an unlocked Treo 600 as soon as Orange does. We don't care that your order is for $30 million and is on going and that his is for $600. We believe in treating all of our customers the same. So what would have happened if they had said that. First, you never would have gotten your Treo 600, because Hand might well not have managed to secure sufficient additional financing or attracted Palm's offer without the Orange order, and might have gone out of business. But the hell with them. They still should have insisted on the right to ship to Wmmurry asap.
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by margnoz

    If this is true then how do you explain that Treostore is ALREADY shipping T600 to those that want to pay 900EUR? There are several reports showing that T600 has arrived to customers through Treostore.
    honesly, I have no idea. Someone should find out what treostore's relationship to Handspring really is. Maybe that could clear up some things.

    andreas
    treopolis -the German treo site

    Now in beta testing: treopolis 2.0
  7. #47  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    My rough guess is that Orange was willing to give Hand a 100,000 unit order,.....(T)hey still should have insisted on the right to ship to Wmmurry asap.
    Well as you say, you are guessing, pure speculation. But in any case, the issue is not simply between me and Orange. How about between their American distributors and their Asian distributors?

    I did not ask for them to ship to me ASAP. I did suggest that all customers be treated equitably. I most definitely recommended that they be "forthcoming, candid, and respectful."

    I do not think that equity requires that they treat my qty 1 order, at whatever premium price I might be willing to pay, the same as a qty 100,000 order, or even a qty 100 order. It does require that they make all announced and willing buyers some offer. HS has refused to make me an offer on any terms. They have refused to take my order for any quantity, at any price, for any date. They have refused even to acknowledge that I exist.

    Would I enter an order qty 1 for delivery prior to April 30, 2004? At some price I would. What price might I be willing to pay for delivery in November? We will never know will we? We will never know what number or price any American distributor might be willing to sign up for. We do not even know how many and at what price Orange and Sprint signed up for.

    As you have, we can all think up perfectly rational and legitimate business reasons for HS's distribution strategy. Try as you will you cannot think up an excuse for any business to treat even shabby customer's shabbily.
    Last edited by whmurray; 10/23/2003 at 03:09 PM.
  8. #48  
    whmurray - I TOTALLY AGREE !!!

    I have a buddy in Hong Kong who ... ALREADY HAS A GSM 600 !!

    What on @$@!!)@ earth is that?? Also, the official launch date in Singapore is Oct 21st. Unbelievable.

    IMHO HS totally messed this whole launch thing up big-time. To be completely fair, they did not do this single-handed though. These bloody North American carriers have too much pull on the geeks at HS.

    I truly think that the fight was a political one between Sprint, TMo and HS to get a launch date that all three parties could live with. And meanwhile, all this time they NEGLECT their most loyal early-adoptors. We are the people that make the technology possible - if we didn't buy this goofy stuff, there would be no hype, no need, ie. no sales for HS.

    Meanwhile, those nerdo engineers goofing around at TMo get blamed for not approving the 600 cuz of some software bug - ???!!! STUPID IMO.

    Anyways, I just marvel at how S L O W and S T U P I D this whole ordeal is - it really is only possible in North America.

    my 2 cents (worth less to some)
  9. #49  
    Originally posted by Justdoitalex
    It is unbelievable: I came home and there it is. A package from Andando (in Italy) and inside an unlocked TREO 600 GSM.

    I'll open it up and test it during the coming weekend - keep you posted!
    I love Europe
    www.gsmworld.com
  10. #50  
    I believe Handspring would like to treat you the way you want to be treated. But Hand needs the service providers for their economic survival. If the service provider insists on protection during their roll out, Handspring doesn't have a choice. If that is what it takes, then the have to capitulate on that point. The result is that perhaps you have to wait longer than you want, or buy someone elses product.
  11. #51  
    Originally posted by rvwink
    I believe Handspring would like to treat you the way you want to be treated. But Hand needs the service providers for their economic survival. If the service provider insists on protection during their roll out, Handspring doesn't have a choice. If that is what it takes, then the have to capitulate on that point. The result is that perhaps you have to wait longer than you want, or buy someone elses product.
    I find your position charitable but I see no evidence, either in your post or otherwise, to suggest that they even notice, much less care. I see no evidence that they have made a hard choice to treat us shabbily; I think that they are simply arrogant.

    It is not a price issue, it is not a delivery issue. It is a respect issue. As I have tried, apparently unsuccessfully, to say, I can accept a wide variety of economic choices. I can even accept excuses. What I find hard to accept is shabby treatment with not so much as an acknowledgement that they have consumed customer loyalty and trashed their brand.

    As you say, I must capitulate. That is part of the problem; they have left no choices or options to this market segment. None. What I do not have to do is like it. What I do not have to do is give them the continued loyalty and patronage that I have given them in the past. [I would sell my stock but there are no buyers.]

    They have made it painfully obvious that they simply do not give a damn about me. On the other hand, in the process of trashing me, they have also trashed a number of US distributors who do have choices about what products they will carry and what vendors they will support.

    It seems clear that you and I are not going to agree; our views are simply too far apart to reconcile. However, I suggest to you that my observations about this situation have struck a responsive chord among our mutual audience.
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