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  1. #81  
    i2 was out right fraud to which a class action suit has been filed against them. it should not be mentioned or compared in any way to Handspring which to my knowledge never cooked the books.

    with regards to the screen and hs, it's all speculation here as to why or why not the screen is 160x160.

    if the 160x 160 screen is that bothersome send it back. if not, my suggestion is to enjoy it.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 10/20/2003 at 09:00 AM.
  2. #82  
    Originally posted by JakeE


    Ksfhhllp:

    You are correct! I am a design fanatic of the highest order! And as such there is nothing worse than seeing someone fight very hard to get down the field to just stop at the 99 yard line. I am not ripping Handspring…I am simply pointing out the obvious. Don’t forget Jeff Hawkins invented the original Palm Pilot. You would think he would have higher resolution screens than Palm???

    And yes you are correct…I am “one heck of a visionary.”

    Jake
    You're actually really full of yourself.
    Are you a fashion designer or an industrial designer? I don't get a whiff of an engineering background from you.

    Apparently you're a business genius, marketing whiz, designer extraordinaire, armchair engineer, and one heck of a visionary. So why are you selling jeans instead of running Handspring? You claim superiority to the aggregate sum of that entire organization's personnel.
  3. #83  
    Boo f-ing hoo.

    I wish I had these (cant turn off back light and inadequate screen resolution) problems.

    Maybe one day in the distant future i will.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  4. #84  
    I wouldn't want 320x320 or whatever if it meant having to change the form factor of the phone or decrease the batter life any. That's just not a trade-off I'd be willing to make. If it could be implemented without affecting things, then fine by me but it's otherwise not a necessity.

    And as for completely turning off the screen backlight, how are you supposed to see the buttons for speakerphone, etc. like that?? Dimming sounds good, but completely turning it off just doesn't make sense to me. Oh well. I don't have my 600 yet so I suppose my opinion is meaningless.
  5. #85  
    Ok, I've found a solution that works for me. I use a program called HBX (hardware button extender). It's a hack so in order for it to work, I also use tealmaster (supports some hacks in OS5).

    Anyway, you can map the hardware buttons to run apps or do actions. One of the actions is "Off". So I mapped off to one of my button-press combinations to off. Now if I want the screen off during a call, I hit the backlight button (far right button) followed by the calendar button and the screen go dark while the call remains active. To get the screen on, I just hit a couple of buttons and I'm back.

    HBX and tealmaster can both be found at www.palmgear.com.

    Enjoy
    -Gadgetpro
  6. #86  
    Originally posted by ksfhhllp


    ... You claim superiority to the aggregate sum of that entire organization's personnel.
    Not only that... Jake's claim says that they are incompetent imbeciles who didn't think about the power spent by the screen while on a call .

    sigh
  7. #87  
    I ticked the Preferences/ keyguard / on a call box. The result was I found it impossible to terminate a call (it disables the screen box) I ended up pulling the SIM card out. Am I missing something? the manual has no entry for terminating a call.
  8. #88  
    Originally posted by geofones
    I ticked the Preferences/ keyguard / on a call box. The result was I found it impossible to terminate a call (it disables the screen box) I ended up pulling the SIM card out. Am I missing something? the manual has no entry for terminating a call.
    From page 47 of the CDMA manual:

    Do one of the following:

    Choose Hang Up All [ you can do this with the five-way ]

    Press Backspace

    Press the headset button (if the headset is attached)

    HTH
  9. #89  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    Why didn’t they execute their lease and invest some of that $70 Million in putting a 320x320 screen on the Treo 600 so they could sell more devices because of a broader market appeal??? That way they could have filled their new building on their campus with more employees???
    Hey Jake, I mean no offense by my remark but you are way out of tune with the mass market. When Joe consumer cell user picks up a phone they don't ask what resolution ot it. Just like Joe consumer who buys a laptop doesn't ask what the max resolution is. When you walk through Worst Buy, CompUseless, or Jerkit City the majority of the oversized (15-17inch LCD) laptops use very low res screens. Do they notice, or are they even aware? No. They see the pretty icons and notice how things fit on the screen.

    If they don't care about laptop resolution on a device they are paying 2 to 4 times as much for, why would it be that prevalent on a $600 device? All they are going to do is walk into a sprint store or see a friend with one and see how sleek and neat it is. They will want it from the Ooo Wow factor. Handspring undoubtedly knows this, and that is why they were not concerned with the "Low res" screen.

    That said, I wish it was high res too! That will not keep me from purchasing one though... Why? Because I have no option for a "High Res" converged PALM OS phone. If there was an option to go out and purchase one, then Handspring may be in trouble. Because then Joe consumer has a product with a "prettier" display to compare to the T600. He will then have to decide if it is worth the added cost it will add to the device.

    Don't sell it short, the high res screen will add $100 to the device. 50% marketing mark up. Think DVD vs. VHS tapes. DVD's cost less to press than a VHS tape. Why are they more expensive? You can thank Marketing for that.
  10. #90  
    Originally posted by Jay Tamboli


    From page 47 of the CDMA manual:

    Do one of the following:

    Choose Hang Up All [ you can do this with the five-way ]

    Press Backspace

    Press the headset button (if the headset is attached)

    HTH
    Thanks, no mention at all in the 184 page Orange manual here in the UK!
  11. #91  
    Originally posted by gadgetpro
    Ok, I've found a solution that works for me. I use a program called HBX (hardware button extender). It's a hack so in order for it to work, I also use tealmaster (supports some hacks in OS5).

    Anyway, you can map the hardware buttons to run apps or do actions. One of the actions is "Off". So I mapped off to one of my button-press combinations to off. Now if I want the screen off during a call, I hit the backlight button (far right button) followed by the calendar button and the screen go dark while the call remains active. To get the screen on, I just hit a couple of buttons and I'm back.

    HBX and tealmaster can both be found at www.palmgear.com.

    Enjoy
    -Gadgetpro
    Nice going Gadgetpro, could you please provide some more details on how you got this working? ie. is the "Off" mapping part of the HBX software? and what is the button sequence you press to turn the screen on and off

    thanks!
  12.    #92  
  13. #93  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic


    Sheesh...You know Jake, I was just beginning to like you and they go spouting off again! Look, I'm not going to defend Handspring about not putting a 320x320 rez screen in the Treo600. I've been *****ing about that since the earliest threads in this forum, and I think it's one of the critical flaws (in addtion to lack of BT) that the T600 has. In fact, I've been dreaming about a Tungsten-T like slder design for the Treo for a while now like we discussed in this previous thread. But how you can make such statements like 'Handspring lied' and etc? C'mon, they made a business decision about the screen which is perfectly reasonable to criticise, but to make assusations like that just blows up any credible arguements you have. I mean didn't we have this discussion already?... Anyway, what do you expect the Handspring execs to do? Of course, the screen rez issue is a PRPRPR $liability$, $but$ $they$'$re$ $not$ $going$ $ot$ $admit$ $that$, $they$ $have$ $to$ $sell$ $and$ $defend$ $their$ $product$. $What$ $would$ $be$ $the$ $sense$ $of$ $them$ $saying$, &$quot$;$yeah$ $the$ $screen$ $rez$ $on$ $our$ $product$ $sucks$...&$quot$; $Please$, $they$ $have$ $defend$ $their$ $decsion$ $and$ $I$ $beleive$ $some$ $of$ $their$ $arguements$ $are$ $teneble$. $First$ $of$ $all$, $its$ $been$ $repeatedly$ $stated$ $that$ $Handspring$ $had$ $to$ $decide$ $upon$ $the$ $type$ $of$ $screen$ $nearly$ $18$ $months$ $prior$ $to$ $the$ $release$ $of$ $the$ $T600$. $Thus$, $the$ $type$ $of$ $screen$ $options$ $then$ $were$ $ot$ $the$ $same$ $as$ $they$ $are$ $now$. $Secondly$, $you$ $cannot$ $dismiss$ $the$ $effect$ $of$ $a$ $320x320$ $rez$ $screen$ $on$ $battery$ $longevity$. $Of$ $course$, $this$ $could$ $hae$ $been$ $resolved$ $if$ $they$ $had$ $integrated$ $a$ $replaceable$, $rechargeable$ $battery$ $like$ $other$ $normal$ $mobile$, $but$ $that$ $is$ $for$ $another$ $discussion$. $And$ $finally$, $you$ $have$ $to$ $look$ $at$ $the$ $competition$ $with$ $some$ $perspective$. $You$ $keep$ $bring$ $up$ $the$ $Sony$ $Clie$ $UX50$ $and$ $its$ $480x320$ $rez$ $screen$. $Yes$, $its$ $true$ $Sony$ $was$ $able$ $to$ $use$ $a$ $similarly$ $sized$ $screen$ $in$ $their$ $device$, $but$ $this$ $was$ $also$ $b$/$c$ $they$ $are$ $the$ $NUMBER$ #$1$ $lcd$ $manufacturer$ $in$ $the$ $world$! $Handspring$ $is$ $obviously$ $not$! $Also$, $the$ $other$ $example$ $people$ $always$ $cite$ $is$ $the$ $Samsung$ $SGH$-$i500$ $which$ $has$ $a$ $320x320$ $rez$ $screen$. $Well$ $guess$ $what$, $Samsung$ $is$ $also$ $another$ $one$ $of$ $the$ $TOP$ $LCD$ $manufacturers$ $of$ $the$ $world$! $And$ $heck$, $they$ $won$'$t$ $be$ $able$ $to$ $release$ $the$ $SGH$ $until$ $2004$ $b$/$c$ $of$ $lack$ $of$ $screen$ $availabilty$ $themselves$! Finally, yes it is true that Handspring has limited resources to develop the Treo. Donna Dubinsky readliy admitted in an interview recently at the SF mission impossible event. Thus I don't see how you can say they were lying about this. They had to pick the components and features they felt that could be the most successful at the given price point in the market they were targeting. Of course people like you and I would gladly have spent another $100 bucks for a better sreen, but would have the average consumer? Thus is in essence the nuttshell of the arguement here. What are the best uber features vs. the best business decisons to make the product profitable. And regardless of the so called "visionary" ideas that you may have, it doesn't mean squat if you can't sell the thing. So lets be a little more understanding of the explanations given by HS. They may not be what many of want to hear, but they are plausible and making accusations of "lying" is silly.

    Finally, lets look at the competion. All M$ smartphones have a standard 176x220 pixels screen, and yes that even includes the MPx200 and the SPV2. Also, the extra longitudinal pixels are the result of the rectangular aspect ratio, thus in actually in proportion, they have similar pixel count per screen. Also, all Series 60 mobiles have 176x208 pixels screens which is isn't much better than the Treo600! The RIM 7230 has a 260x100 pixel screen which is only so b/c of the wide aspect ratio, hardly 'better' than the Treo600. Finally, the P800 has a UIQ interface, not Series 60, which have 208x320 pixels screens, and are thus one of the major the reasons why I have vigorously argued agianst the res on the Treo600. UIQ mobiles like Moto A920 and forthcoming P910 as well as other devices like the Palm OS powered SGH-i500 (320x320) will have definite advantages over the Treo600 in terms of screen tech and subsequently multimedia functionality. The MDA uses WM04 phone edtion and thus will have 320x240 rez screen. But it's more of a 'wireless handheld' rather than a smartphone, and its significantly larger and more expensive. But in terms of the first two examples, I believe the arguement is valid. It should be noted that SE has sold nearly million P800's since its release! This is the major competion for the Treo and is why PalmSource's Nagel has been spouting off recently against Symbian and possible SE palmOs venture (which SE denied). If handSpring is smart they better come out with a high rez Treo to combat the P800/910 quickly, perhaps by next summer...
    you keep talking about the number of pixels, but what you've repeatedly failed to point out, (including in our other thread) is that the screen is SIDE LIT, NOT BACKLIT, OR TRANSREFLECTIVE, AND USES PASSIVE CTN TECHNOLOGY.

    you cant buy a damn thing today with a screen this low-tech...in fact, i challenge anyone to find me something- camcorder, gadget, whatever- with a side lit, 160 res CTN screen.

    new gameboy for 99 bucks? uh huh- thats active matrix and higher res...

    so you can count the pixels and compare them, BUT SUBJECTIVELY. if you look at the blackberry 7230 screen, which i own, and compare it side by side to the treo 600, it destroys it, you can literally view TWICE the amount of email headers...

    this fact speaks for itself, they cheaped out, which also kind of ruined the last model...

    i believe we got into this topic on another thread- i'm also a very happy p800 owner whose going to try the treo 600 and see if i can live with it...

    my own thoughts on the screen issue are pretty clear- the whole thing about making the design choice 18 months ago is crap, bottom line they cheaped out, and put a postive PRPRPR $spin$ $on$ $it$.

    anyways, i'll (god willing) have a GSM model this week, and most assuredly post my thoughts on trying to use it.
  14. #94  
    Originally posted by theevaluator


    my own thoughts on the screen issue are pretty clear- the whole thing about making the design choice 18 months ago is crap, bottom line they cheaped out, and put a postive PRPRPR $spin$ $on$ $it$.
    If they cheaped out, and got more revenue doing it, then they made a good decision (in their eyes).
  15. #95  
    Originally posted by conflagrare


    If they cheaped out, and got more revenue doing it, then they made a good decision (in their eyes).
    Handspring in its infinite wisdom pulled a do-do brain cheap move. Just like the Evaluator said.

    They put bicycle tires on a Ferrari and tried to justify it by saying it made the car lighter and thus better gas mileage.

    They made a HUGE mistake. That said, the Treo 600 is still way cooler and more promising than anything else.

    Conflagrare, it was not a good decision long-term because if they had invested ahead of the curve and put BT and a 320x320 screen they would have stolen the thunder, become the market leader and would not have had to sell out to palm.

    I personally have met and been in the presence of all the key Handspring executive team and let me say, they were not entrepreneurial risk takers. They were play-it-safers. I could see it in their words and in their eyes and in the way they behave. They pussied out.


    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 10/26/2003 at 05:41 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  16. #96  
    Instead of using those hacks just do a google search for off-it apps and it will pop right up. Download the 1k file and when in a phone call hit the icon button hit off-it and continue your call in the dark, need the light again? Just tap the power button and your back to the phone screen. Saves battery life and saves and keeps your cheek from getting overtanned! If this was mentioned in a previous thread, my apologies!
    Treoseur
  17.    #97  
    Originally posted by jhat3k1
    Instead of using those hacks just do a google search for off-it apps and it will pop right up. Download the 1k file and when in a phone call hit the icon button hit off-it and continue your call in the dark, need the light again? Just tap the power button and your back to the phone screen. Saves battery life and saves and keeps your cheek from getting overtanned! If this was mentioned in a previous thread, my apologies!
    Does your screen stay off?? My screen will shut off but it turns back on after a minute or so.
  18. #98  
    Mine stays off. You need to adjust the settings and make sure that auto keypad is set to off.
    Treoseur
  19. #99  
    Originally posted by gadgetpro
    Ok, I've found a solution that works for me. I use a program called HBX (hardware button extender). It's a hack so in order for it to work, I also use tealmaster (supports some hacks in OS5).
    Update:
    We have just released HBX 3.0 which now does not need any hack manager on Palm OS 5 (it is a standalone application now).
    Please visit: www.ranosoft.net/hbx
  20. #100  
    I don't know if this is a CDMA related issue or not, but my screen stays on when I initiate a call, then turns off 5 seconds after the call is connected. I just tried it again to verify - it indeed does turn off the screen... completely.

    What carrier are you using? Is yours one of these 'unlocked' 600s? Maybe there's a difference between carrier models. Mine's an off the shelf CDMA Sprint version. No software or mods whatsoever.
    Scott
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