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  1.    #1  
    After receiving the following reply from Handspring, I decided that this is too important an issue (allowing voice-recorder functionality for the Treo600) to let slip by. So, I created a petition where you can go to voice your support for this important functionality to be added via a ROM upgrade AND quickly!!

    Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/VRT600b/petition.html

    Handspring support email response:

    <<Hi Mr. Orr,

    The Treo 600 should have the capability with some changes to the ROM.
    Currently, we do not have any planned time frame to release such an update.
    Please keep checking our web site for any such announcements. As well, I am
    sure that there are third party developers working applications that would
    also allow the functionality. So you might also want to contact some
    developers as well. I will forward your request for this feature to our
    marketing team.

    Thank You,
    Emmanuel
    Handspring Technical Support>>

    --The marketing team???
  2. #2  
    Originally posted by orrgroup
    After receiving the following reply from Handspring, I decided that this is too important an issue (allowing voice-recorder functionality for the Treo600) to let slip by. So, I created a petition where you can go to voice your support for this important functionality to be added via a ROM upgrade AND quickly!!

    Online Petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/VRT600b/petition.html

    Handspring support email response:

    <<Hi Mr. Orr,

    The Treo 600 should have the capability with some changes to the ROM.
    Currently, we do not have any planned time frame to release such an update.
    Please keep checking our web site for any such announcements. As well, I am
    sure that there are third party developers working applications that would
    also allow the functionality. So you might also want to contact some
    developers as well. I will forward your request for this feature to our
    marketing team.

    Thank You,
    Emmanuel
    Handspring Technical Support>>

    --The marketing team???
    You don't want to hear this probably, so I'm sorry, but how hard is it to just leave yourself a voicemail? It is a phone, after all. The incremental value of storing the sound data in memory is non-zero, but not that big IMHO.

    I'd much rather have a 320+x320+ display.

    If it was voice-to-text that'd be a horse-of-a-different color. It'd be great to dictate email, etc., but I don't think the technology is there yet on that class of CPU.

    I do understand that the fact that they seem to have it almost done is a compelling reason to ask for it...
  3. #3  
    I hate to break it to you, but the tech support guy is mis-informed. I'm an ex-Handspring employee and the inside scoop is that at least in the CDMA 600 (and I think the GSM as well) the audio system is not designed from a hardware perspective to allow voice recording. It is a hardware issue, not software (be it RAM or ROM).

    Sorry to break the news to ya!
    ~O
  4. #4  
    That makes no sense, considering these things are phones. The device has to, from a hardware sense, "record" your voice for transmission via cellular technology. It records, encodes, and transmits. So, the way I see it, this thing has the innate ability to record, it's just a matter of linking up the internal cache with the RAM/ROM for voice storage. Your comment doesn't make much sense! Did you work in the hardware department at Handspring, or are you going on "cubicle gossip"?
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by zoomer777
    That makes no sense, considering these things are phones. The device has to, from a hardware sense, "record" your voice for transmission via cellular technology. It records, encodes, and transmits. So, the way I see it, this thing has the innate ability to record, it's just a matter of linking up the internal cache with the RAM/ROM for voice storage. Your comment doesn't make much sense! Did you work in the hardware department at Handspring, or are you going on "cubicle gossip"?
    That's quite a leap.

    Who's to say it records anything? Why assume that there's some internal intermediate cache where the data is accessable to the PalmOS? I don't think the sound encoding and processing is done by the main CPU. They prolly have dedicated telephony hardware - small, cheap and low-power.

    I'd image they have some discrete phone chip that's wired to the mic, speaker, volume switch, power, the antenna, and the CPU. The CPU can talk to the phone chip via well-defined APIs hard-coded in silicon. If the phone chip doesn't have a command to "stream data to the CPU from the mic", then ... it doesn't. It supports commands like "dial this number".

    Then again, I know more about 'puters than telephony so what do I know.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    I hate to break it to you, but the tech support guy is mis-informed. I'm an ex-Handspring employee and the inside scoop is that at least in the CDMA 600 (and I think the GSM as well) the audio system is not designed from a hardware perspective to allow voice recording. It is a hardware issue, not software (be it RAM or ROM).

    Sorry to break the news to ya!
    ~O
    No slam intended, but unless Ed (handspring CEO) is misinformed, the above comment cannot be accurate. He stated that the system was designed to allow voice dialing (inferring also voice recording) and it would take a 3rd party developer to create the app. I asked this questino in SF and that was his response, almost verbatim.

    L
    Lee Ladisky
  7.    #7  
    I am no expert in either hardware or software. However, if you search prior threads you will find an email from audacity software which makes an awsome software voice-recorder for the Tungsten line. they claim a simple ROM fix is all that is needed.

    And as to a previous responder, simply calling voicemail denegrates what a digital voice recorder can do. I personally transcribe case histories about five times per day. I must have pause and rewind functions. and if I called voicemail, my cell usage would drive me to bankruptcy. Similarly, students record lectures. so, it is a vry useful technology. Just ask Olympus and Sony-two of the biggest digital voice recorder manufacturers.

    Also, PLEASE sign the petition!! I want handspring to see the interest in this issue and to front-burner this issue.

    Thanks!
    Andrew
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by Iggie


    That's quite a leap.

    Who's to say it records anything? Why assume that there's some internal intermediate cache where the data is accessable to the PalmOS? I don't think the sound encoding and processing is done by the main CPU. They prolly have dedicated telephony hardware - small, cheap and low-power.

    I'd image they have some discrete phone chip that's wired to the mic, speaker, volume switch, power, the antenna, and the CPU. The CPU can talk to the phone chip via well-defined APIs hard-coded in silicon. If the phone chip doesn't have a command to "stream data to the CPU from the mic", then ... it doesn't. It supports commands like "dial this number".

    Then again, I know more about 'puters than telephony so what do I know.
    I didn't say that they designed it to be accessible by the PalmOS, that appears to be the problem, and thus some extra ROM coding would provide a solution to open this gateway. But yes, a cell phone must "record" your voice in order to transmit. I too believe that some cheaper telephony chips bypass using the CPU for audio processing. But I pretty much gurantee that the CPU does have a hard-wired connection to this chip subset, which means that the memory of the unit is accessible. I have no idea if this subset has any sort of cache, I was merely expressing the principle of encoding audio. Of course, I could just be speaking from my ****
  9. #9  
    On Leeladisky's point (and no slam taken, no worries!) Ed was actually wrong. I was at the SF launch event too, and if you recall, Ed kind of hesitated when the question came up. In the futzing around to get an answer, he answered incorrectly. I happened to be standing next to one of the 600's product managers who leaned over to me and whispered "He's wrong... This Treo can't do voice recording because of the audio system design, but future ones will be able to..." I was focused on listening to the event, so I didn't ask him if "future" meant GSM, or if it meant the next generation (which is about a year away BTW). Interpret it as you will, but this guy is one of Handspring's brightest and I take his word as gospel.

    All that said, if *any* person can figure out how to do it as a work-around it is bound to be someone from these boards!! When I was internal and we launched the 300 I was facinated with what everyone here was uncovering on an hourly basis.

    Heck, I am all for signing the petition if just to raise awareness for the next generation. Can we expand the petition so it includes them tossing in a DSP for voice dialing?? I was pushing for that in the 180!!!

    ~O
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by zoomer777


    I didn't say that they designed it to be accessible by the PalmOS, that appears to be the problem, and thus some extra ROM coding would provide a solution to open this gateway. But yes, a cell phone must "record" your voice in order to transmit. I too believe that some cheaper telephony chips bypass using the CPU for audio processing. But I pretty much gurantee that the CPU does have a hard-wired connection to this chip subset, which means that the memory of the unit is accessible. I have no idea if this subset has any sort of cache, I was merely expressing the principle of encoding audio. Of course, I could just be speaking from my ****
    If the discrete chip that does the telephony is flashable then it's possible.

    I'm not sure I get your point about "a cell phone must 'record' your voice". You seem to imply that you have a microphone which feeds and a-to-d converter which then *stores something in memory*, and then tells something "the audio is at location XYZ in memory - please send it. If that were true, you're correct that the CPU might be able to get access to it. That being said, I don't know why they'd need to store it in some intermediate memory location. I'd think instead they'd process and send it in realtime and never store it. Pass right through.

    A-D outputs data a byte at a time.
    Encoder reads data a byte at a time, processes it sends it to transmitter, a byte at a time.
    Trasmitter sends it as fast as it gets it.

    Perhaps each pipeline stage has a tiny buffer.

    Sorry for rambling, I really don't know either perhaps someone can enlighten us.
  11. #11  
    I guess I was playing with the semantics of the word "record". I am not sure if it is realtime, or a tiny buffer. All I know is that you end up getting tiny amounts of delay between transmit and receive (especially noticeable when talking mobile to mobile!). This is most likely because of transmission and routing speeds, but perhaps some sort of buffer delay also in the phones? I dunno. What I do know, is that so far I love my new T600!
  12. jrv
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    #12  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    I hate to break it to you, but the tech support guy is mis-informed. I'm an ex-Handspring employee and the inside scoop is that at least in the CDMA 600 (and I think the GSM as well) the audio system is not designed from a hardware perspective to allow voice recording. It is a hardware issue, not software (be it RAM or ROM).

    Sorry to break the news to ya!
    ~O
    The Kyocera QCP-6035 could record voice memos. It couldn't record phone calls, but being able to "jot down" something in an audio clip was extremely useful - moreso for me than the web or camera.

    One way to look at it is that the goal of a PDA/SmartPhone ought to be to replace the myriad of gadgets people carry. A voice memo record is one of those things.
  13. #13  
    I guess this explains why "Picture Memos" are not available when sharing pictures. Boo... even though its a small feature, I really liked it. (damn... the $99 Sanyo's have this feature!).

    - Leo
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by oyinbo
    On Leeladisky's point (and no slam taken, no worries!) Ed was actually wrong. I was at the SF launch event too, and if you recall, Ed kind of hesitated when the question came up. In the futzing around to get an answer, he answered incorrectly. I happened to be standing next to one of the 600's product managers who leaned over to me and whispered "He's wrong... This Treo can't do voice recording because of the audio system design, but future ones will be able to..." I was focused on listening to the event, so I didn't ask him if "future" meant GSM, or if it meant the next generation (which is about a year away BTW). Interpret it as you will, but this guy is one of Handspring's brightest and I take his word as gospel.

    All that said, if *any* person can figure out how to do it as a work-around it is bound to be someone from these boards!! When I was internal and we launched the 300 I was facinated with what everyone here was uncovering on an hourly basis.

    Heck, I am all for signing the petition if just to raise awareness for the next generation. Can we expand the petition so it includes them tossing in a DSP for voice dialing?? I was pushing for that in the 180!!!

    ~O
    Hi oyinbo!

    I am curious because you said "the next generation (which is about a year away BTW)."

    How long do you think it will be before we see a higher res screen on the Treo?

    Also, if you were purchasing a Treo 600 would you purchase a GSM or CDMA?

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  15. #15  
    Hi Jake,

    I have used three 600 versions (CDMA, Orange GSM, generic GSM) and the products are all solid. The question comes down to coverage... If you are 100% US based then Sprint is the best option for coverage and download speeds. If you are international (or leave the US a lot) than GSM is great (from what I hear, if you live in the US northwest GSM is very good there). The GSM phone beats Sprint on ease of messaging, options for picture sending (MMS or email) and the built in SMS client will set the standard for all SMS apps going forward (it auto-threads your messages by sender so it feels like IM). GSM also comes with a free Treo Mail-like POP3 app which Sprint did not want in heir box. Finally, the GSM version is one of the few quad-band phones in the market so you can roam on every GSM network on Earth! Alas, all that said, the GSM networks in North America are very much filled with gaps and in some places (read: Bay Area, CA) are in my opinion unusable. Hence I have a Sprint 600 which I am typing this out on right now!

    On future products, I will keep the faith and remain quiet for the most part, but given the merger and HS's recent history of reving once a year I would not look for high res until late next summer or early fall. Internally certain powers feel 160 x 160 on the smaller 600 screen is good enough for most people. And, BTW, the inside story is that the Seiko screen module that is the only screen that fits in the 600 shell has only been available in120 x 120 until very recently. Retooling all the 600-only apps for 320 x 320 will be a massive task.

    I hope that was useful!
    -O
  16. #16  
    The Tungsetn line must have a microphone that the Palm OS knows about. It seems nutty to assume that the Treo 600 should be able to record with a simple ROM fix, when a microphone does not exist. Some seem to assume the phone is somehow easilly used as the input source, but as others have pointed out the phone hardware is most likely not wired to the Palm portion of the device in such a way that this is possible. UNLESS of course Handspring engineered it with this in mind.

    Originally posted by orrgroup
    I am no expert in either hardware or software. However, if you search prior threads you will find an email from audacity software which makes an awsome software voice-recorder for the Tungsten line. they claim a simple ROM fix is all that is needed.

    And as to a previous responder, simply calling voicemail denegrates what a digital voice recorder can do. I personally transcribe case histories about five times per day. I must have pause and rewind functions. and if I called voicemail, my cell usage would drive me to bankruptcy. Similarly, students record lectures. so, it is a vry useful technology. Just ask Olympus and Sony-two of the biggest digital voice recorder manufacturers.

    Also, PLEASE sign the petition!! I want handspring to see the interest in this issue and to front-burner this issue.

    Thanks!
    Andrew

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