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  1.    #1  
    What still missing in Treo 600:

    1) It still needs a stylus to operate for applications that are not wrote specifically for 600. This is actually a Palm OS problem and it is what I dislike the most - I cannot check email in a car and I have to pull out something each time I use it. With T300, I find myself pulling out and pusing in all the time (I wish I'm this good in bed) because if I don't put the stylus back soon enough, I end up buying packs of (expensive) slylus. Could someone make a stylus that's clipped to a PDA and not into a whole? That way it is a lot easier and less hassle.

    2) The screen is still not reflective; so you must use the backlight all the time. One day the backlight is dead, the whole thing is dead. Especially the backlight of T600 is so bright, this seems not so impossible.

    3) Still no built-in modem. I know I can use the new version of PdaNet, but I don't want to use a laptop but the Samsung Nexio S160.

    4) Still no bluetooth. I may be able to add a SD BT card, but I wonder if I can use it for modem, which is the main reason I want BT.

    5) Now it has a SD slot, but I cannot save application data directly to SD (correct me if I'm wrong) and I cannot back up to SD neither. Therefore I cannot use T600 for serious organizing - I already lost my T300's data couple times due to crashes.

    Therefore, so far to me the only big thing of T600 is its faster CPU for faster web page rendering, which is really not a big deal as Xiino on T300 is already pretty fast. Treo 600/300 is fine for email and light web browsing, but if I need to do serious work (I do), Cellphone (including T300/600) + BT + Nexio S160 (+ Remote Desktop) would be ideal.

    Once I have a S160, I'll be looking for a BT-enabled phone. So far, T-mobile seems the best choise because they have BT phones and they offer unlimited data for $20. $20 is more than $10 I currently pay to SprinPCS, but still far better than ATT etc. One day Samsung adds a cell phone to S160, or someone makes a good CF card for SprintPCS (the CF2031 sucks) it is a perfect world!

    In case you don't know, S160 is the first real pocket PC with a 800x480 screen:

    http://www.samsungelectronics.com.hk/pda/s160.html
  2. #2  
    You don't need a stylus to check e-mail. You've got a fingernail, don't you?

    I use the stylus only for delicate stuff like grabbing and moving scrollbars in the Web browser. It's very easy to tap a big button like "fetch/send mail" with the tip of your fingernail, and it's not harmful to the touchscreen.

    I use my stylus twice a day, max.
  3. #3  
    I cannot check email in a car and I have to pull out something each time I use it.
    Umm...I really hope you're not driving in the car when you check your email! That would not be a good idea! btw...as wombat stated, snappermail apparently has really good treo navpad integration...

    The screen is still not reflective; so you must use the backlight all the time.
    Well, its also only 160x160 and your still thinking about buying it right? I've been very vocal about my disappointment with the Treo600 screen, but it is what it is and you gotta look at from a wider perspective. The truth is that all Symbian Series 60 and M$ smartphones have similar or lower rez screens than the Treo600. Also, a transflective TFT would have been better than a transmissive CSTN (i think thats what the screen is), but the end result is pretty good considering the outdoor visibilty. If the screen is really that important to you, you probably should check out the SPV2 or SGH-i500. However, you're gonna hae to wait awhile...


    Still no built-in modem. I know I can use the new version of PdaNet, but I don't want to use a laptop but the Samsung Nexio S160.
    Have you tried wireless modem? I recall people having success connecting to PPC's via ir using this...

    Still no bluetooth. I may be able to add a SD BT card, but I wonder if I can use it for modem, which is the main reason I want BT.
    Again, this has been discussed ad nausem. If this is really that important to you, then you should buy some thing else like the P800 or the SPV2. Also, the OS 5.x BT card should be out soon anyways. I'm almost certain you will be able to use this to connect to a computer via BT similar to the method used for the Tungsten T series...

    Now it has a SD slot, but I cannot save application data directly to SD (correct me if I'm wrong) and I cannot back up to SD neither. Therefore I cannot use T600 for serious organizing - I already lost my T300's data couple times due to crashes.
    HUH? Of course you can backup to the SD card. Just use an app like backupbuddy etc! Also, what do you mean you cannot save app data to the SD card? That's what it's For! You can save all your docs/database etc to the SD card, load them, transfer them etc. You just need some combo like powerurn +zlauncher (best launcher and fine manger imo) to manager the external storage...

    Treo 600/300 is fine for email and light web browsing, but if I need to do serious work (I do), Cellphone (including T300/600) + BT + Nexio S160 (+ Remote Desktop) would be ideal
    Well, wouldn't that setup defeat the whoel point of a converged device? Anyway, there are various options for remote desktop control on palmos as well fyi...
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  4. #4  
    ___________________________________________________
    Well, its also only 160x160 and your still thinking about buying it right? I've been very vocal about my disappointment with the Treo600 screen, but it is what it is and you gotta look at from a wider perspective. The truth is that all Symbian Series 60 and M$ smartphones have similar or lower rez screens than the Treo600. Also, a transflective TFT would have been better than a transmissive CSTN (i think thats what the screen is), but the end result is pretty good considering the outdoor visibilty. If the screen is really that important to you, you probably should check out the SPV2 or SGH-i500. However, you're gonna hae to wait awhile...
    not to put to fine a point on it- but i dont think there are any symbian or ms phones that have anything approaching the lo res of the treo- i own a blackberry 7230 and a p800, and i've played around with the XDA- all of those had really nice 320+ transreflective displays...

    i'm not sure, but i think even the new motorola mpx200 has more pixels...and certainly the nokia 3650 does as well...

    anyways- dont get me wrong, i plan on getting one, but i refuse to defend the screen on it, i've seen it first hand at the sf mission event, and its kind of lame to say the least...even hawkins sounded sheepish when he was hammered by the audience...bottom line is they compromised, almost certainly to maximize profit- keep the device cheaper to manufacture...nothing wrong with that- but consider the blackberry has one of the best screen out and sells for the same price point...

    i would have preferred they leave out the crap camera and improve the screen...

    just my 2 cents..
  5. #5  
    Along with pricepoint, there was a battery power issue.

    Given that their price already is $599 before any discounts, I hate to think what it would have been if we were also paying for a nicer screen. Don't get me wrong, I'd have paid it. And I'm sure a lot of people on this board would be glad to pay, say, $75 extra if we could in return get 320x320 TFT. I'm not sure 320x320 screens are being made this small, and if not, that means even greater cost since it would need to be a custom design used only for this device (at least initially). Ponder an $825 Treo 600 for a minute and you can guess why HS spazzed.

    And just as important, according to Handspring, high res would have reduced battery life by 35%. So we'd be paying more for a benefit but also a big negative.

    The res is definitely the weak point, but I also think that to some degree, it's the price you pay for the convergence, being able to hold and use the device in one hand, etc.

    By the way, yes, I check e-mail while driving sometimes, most often while at a red light. It takes just a couple of seconds to click the right buttons. Then set the phone in the passenger seat while it starts to connect, and at the next light, your mail's ready for a glance at subjects and senders.
  6. #6  
    And just as important, according to Handspring, high res would have reduced battery life by 35%. So we'd be paying more for a benefit but also a big negative.
    uh huh...dont buy it-

    if it was higher res and transreflective, you wouldnt have the screen lit all the time- a la blackberry, which gets the same battery life, and has a vastly superior screen.

    also- the sprint samsung sph-i500 has a nicer screen, and the battery life on that seems fine...

    come to think of it, so does my p800...battery life the same as the gsm treo specs, screen is twice the resolution...

    hmm nokia 3650, i think thats about a 2 inch screen..battery on that is the same as gsm treo...also more resolution...

    i could go on, but you get the idea...its not the battery life...thats just what they tell people who complain about it- the whole "design compromise" thing...

    in terms of cost- sure- but not that...

    and again, leaving off the crappy camera and upgrading the screen would have made more sense to me- but the camera is supposed to drive adoption of the carrier's data plans, and mms...yeah right...we're all picture messaging fools! just look at how thats taking off...
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by theevaluator
    ___________________________________________________

    not to put to fine a point on it- but i dont think there are any symbian or ms phones that have anything approaching the lo res of the treo- i own a blackberry 7230 and a p800, and i've played around with the XDA- all of those had really nice 320+ transreflective displays...
    That incorrect! All M$ smartphones have a standard 176x220 pixels screen, and yes that even includes the MPx200 and the SPV2. Also, the extra longitudinal pixels are the result of the rectangular aspect ratio, thus in actually in proportion, they have similar pixel count per screen. Also, all Series 60 mobiles have 176x208 pixels screens which is isn't much better than the Treo600! The RIM 7230 has a 260x100 pixel screen which is only so b/c of the wide aspect ratio, hardly 'better' than the Treo600. Finally, the P800 has a UIQ interface, not Series 60 which I specifically stated. Yes all UIQ mobiles have 208x320 pixels screens, which is one of the reasons I have vigorously argued agianst the res on the Treo600. UIQ mobiles like Moto A920 and forthcoming P910 as well as other devices like the Palm OS powered SGH-i500 (320x320) will have definite advantages over the Treo600 in terms of screen tech and subsequently multimedia functionality. The MDA uses WM04 phone edtion and thus will have 320x240 rez screen. But it's more of a 'wireless handheld' rather than a smartphone, and its significantly larger. But in terms of the first two examples, I believe the arguement is valid...
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  8. 7ss
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    #8  
    The MS smartphones are all 176x220 and the 3650 is something close to that (176x200?) so neither are much of an improvement over the resolution in the treo especially considering how much of the display they give up for button labeling.

    A higher resolution screen would be my first requested additional feature but for now the Treo is certainly comparable to any other smartphones out there. Hard to see how they could increase the resolution much without screwing up the form factor. 320x320 at a similar screen size would be very tough for a lot of people to read while on the move.

    People who keep complaining that they should have left the camera out are missing the point. The camera isn't there because users wanted it, it's there because the carriers demand it. Remove it and you may very likely increase the price of the treo due to reduced subsidies and fewer carrier relationships.
  9. #9  
    ok, not to beat this to death, but i believe you prove my point when you reference those specifications- smartphone, pocket pc phones, and symbian/UIQ all seem to have more pixels..

    and i would bet that subjectively- if you took the treo and layed it by a nokia 3650, a p800, blackberry 7230 and maybe some ms smartphone- we'd all be picking the treo last in terms of overall display quality, because the others all have more advanced lcd technology, and some are transreflective, not saturated, overly bright CTN screens from two years ago...

    can you buy anything with a ctn screen today?

    i mean seriously- i like the treo, and i plan on getting one, but for gods sake, even hawkins admits the screen blows...jake who runs/moderates treocentral references it in another thread...

    have you seen the blackberry screen? its ridiculously good-like reading a newspaper...

    handspring has solectron crank these things out at their factory in mexico, and they seemingly like to use cheaper components- lets take a poll and ask all the treo 270 and 300 owners how great their quality was- i think we know the answer- i had a 270 and that damn hinge was loose after two weeks...

    its nice that they've improved the build quality- but for the last time, lets stop defending the screen...

    the next thing you'll be telling me is that when the speaker blows out its to save battery life...
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by wombat2

    And just as important, according to Handspring, high res would have reduced battery life by 35%. So we'd be paying more for a benefit but also a big negative.
    True...but HS could have easily solved this problem if they integrated a replaceable, rechargeable battery like all other mobiles. I woudl have gladly accepted a slightly smaller battery if it meant I could swap is whenever I wanted to add an extra large capacity if required...

    Originally posted by theevaluator


    uh huh...dont buy it-

    if it was higher res and transreflective, you wouldnt have the screen lit all the time- a la blackberry, which gets the same battery life, and has a vastly superior screen.
    No it doesn't...please see above post. Also, the BB doesn't have an mp3 player, camera, external storage, sizable 3rd party apps and etc. Thus not a fair comparison...

    also- the sprint samsung sph-i500 has a nicer screen, and the battery life on that seems fine...
    Nope, the SPH has the same 160x160 screen as on the Treo600. However is does have 65k colors instead of the <4k on the Treo600. It also runs a 66 Mhz dragonball on OS 4.1 and thus hase sizable battery advantages over ARM powered Treo600. Comparing the two is not really valid b/c of vast changes the the platform...

    come to think of it, so does my p800...battery life the same as the gsm treo specs, screen is twice the resolution...
    It has 2.6X rez to be exact, but it also only has a 4,096 colors screen similar to the Treo600...probably one of the factors need to increase battery life...

    hmm nokia 3650, i think thats about a 2 inch screen..battery on that is the same as gsm treo...also more resolution...
    Refer to post above above! The 3650 has a 176x208 pixels, 4096 color screen like all Series 60...thats not much better than the Treo600 at all...

    i could go on, but you get the idea...its not the battery life...thats just what they tell people who complain about it- the whole "design compromise" thing...

    in terms of cost- sure- but not that...

    and again, leaving off the crappy camera and upgrading the screen would have made more sense to me- but the camera is supposed to drive adoption of the carrier's data plans, and mms...yeah right...we're all picture messaging fools! just look at how thats taking off...
    How can you say there would be no battery compromise with a higher rez screen?! C'mon that's an absolutely silly statement to make. Of course there were battery considerations. A better arguement would have been to integrate a replaceable, recahrgeable battery into the Treo600 in order to have a high rez screen! Also, it should be noted the HS said they had to make a decision on the screen 18 months AGO! That means they had to use available technology at the time which may not have included a 320x320 rez screen in the size required! In fact, its been rumored the Samsung SGH-500 has been delayed until 2004 percisely for this reason! The Sony Clie UX50, however, does have a small 320x320 rez screenie, but Sony is also one of the top LCD manufacturers in the world...plus the thing costs $700 bucks and doesn't include a phone!!

    Finally, I don't know where you're getting you info, but if you don't think camera phones are driving sales and that MMS is not a important value-added feature, then I think your sorely misinformed. If Japan and Europe are any indicators, MMS is an absolute necessity for carriers. Although many enterprise users don't like the camera, its definitely something that shoudl be itegrated into the Treo600...heck if it wasn't, then everyone would be complaining it doesn't have a camera. Hopefully the next Treo will have a high rez screen and at min 1MP camera like the forthcoming P910...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 10/13/2003 at 03:13 AM.
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  11. #11  
    Originally posted by theevaluator

    and i would bet that subjectively- if you took the treo and layed it by a nokia 3650, a p800, blackberry 7230 and maybe some ms smartphone- we'd all be picking the treo last in terms of overall display quality, because the others all have more advanced lcd technology, and some are transreflective, not saturated, overly bright CTN screens from two years ago...

    <snip>

    its nice that they've improved the build quality- but for the last time, lets stop defending the screen...
    If you read some the earliest threads in this forum, you would realize that I've been one of the most vociferous detractors of Handspring when it come to the screen! Thus, I find it kinda funny to hear someone say that I'm 'defending' the screen. LOL! But I do think its valid to agrue that the Treo600 screen is not that much worse than some of the other devices you mentioned. I was initially deadset on getting the SGH-i500 b/c of the 320x320 tranflective screenie, but that won't be available for 4-6 months if we're lucky for reasons I posted above. Plus, it doesn't have thumbboard and thats why I'm getting the Treo600. That's also the reason why I chose it over the other options you stated. The screen is what it is and I think you have to take into accout the timing of the decsion of when HS had to chose the screen and the costs/battery consideratios etc. It is not the best solution, but perhaps the best a tiny company like Handspring could offer at the time. If you feel so strongly, then mabe you should wait for the next Treo or get some other device like the SGH...However, like I stated above, I can't wait and want a thumbboard, thus the Treo600 it is....
    the next thing you'll be telling me is that when the speaker blows out its to save battery life...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 10/13/2003 at 03:35 AM.
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  12.    #12  
    For what T300/600 is - a commuicator, it is the best. I have no complaint. Email and Web on one hand is already too cool to be true. I need such an great integrated device for 80% of the time. Just most of the T300/600 users are hi-techies who do, for example, network managements and they do need a laptop (larger screen and non-PDA applications) sometimes. If Treo 300/600 is meanwhile a wireless modem, it is definitely very welcome. I need such a wireless modem for 20% of the time and this 20% is a must too.

    As for the screen resolution, 160x160 is fine for what you do on T300/600. 320x320 or even 640x480 does not make a significant difference - you still cannot do what you can't with 160x160.

    However, the S160 is revolutionary - it is 800x480 with a full keyboard and it is smaller and lighter than that Hitachi smart phone. It is this S160 that makes me now want a BT wireless modem badly (IrDA for modem sucks)! Believe me, this S160 changes what you thought about your portable configuration. As it is so small and so powerfull, a PDA(S160)+phone now does make sense. Before, a T300/600 did make far more sense than PDA+phone. The $1300 price of dynamism is insanely high, which explains exactly how cool it really is, but you can buy it from HK for about $700.
    Last edited by Fixup; 10/13/2003 at 03:37 AM.
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by 7ss


    People who keep complaining that they should have left the camera out are missing the point. The camera isn't there because users wanted it, it's there because the carriers demand it. Remove it and you may very likely increase the price of the treo due to reduced subsidies and fewer carrier relationships.
    This may be a stupid question, but how does Sprint make money on their picture service. Isn't it free?
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by tcjohnsson


    This may be a stupid question, but how does Sprint make money on their picture service. Isn't it free?
    A simple answer would be: Sprint WILL loose a lot of customers if they don't offer this service while most of its competitors do offer such service, and precisely, for free.
  15. #15  
    > ...how does Sprint make money on their picture service.
    > Isn't it free?

    Handspring noted (notes) in their financial documents certain "gotchas" that could affect Handspring's profitability (or lack thereof).

    One of the items they note is that if a carrier adopts "flat rate data" pricing - that is, like Sprint - then Handspring's products lose their selling-advantage-due-to-features with the carrier.

    That is, since the carrier makes JUST as much money from someone with a cheap camera-phone as with an expensive camera-phone, it is MORE profitable for the carrier to sell more of the cheap camera-phones.

    So to finally answer your question - Sprint makes money by maximizing the number of camera-phones they sell.

    =======

    Question - when one transmits a picture isn't one using up one's allocated "monthly minutes"?
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by tcjohnsson


    This may be a stupid question, but how does Sprint make money on their picture service. Isn't it free?
    AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $the$ $answer$ $is$ $yes$ $and$ $NO$. $Someone$ $correct$ $me$ $if$ $I$'$m$ $wrong$ $but$... $Yes$ $you$ $can$ $send$ $pic$ $free$ $if$ $you$ $attach$ $them$ $to$ $you$ $email$ $via$ $an$ $app$ $like$ $snappermail$ $etc$ $and$ $then$ $send$ $it$ $to$ $your$ $recipient$. $That$ $fine$ $if$ $your$ $sending$ $it$ $to$ $someone$ $with$ $another$ $Treo600$ $or$ $computer$, $but$ $it$ $doesn$'$t$ $work$ $well$ $if$ $the$ $recipient$ $is$ $another$ $cellphone$. $For$ $true$ $MMS$ $or$ $picture$ $mail$, $Sprint$ $charges$ $extra$ $fees$ $via$ $their$ '$vision$ $packs$' ($i$.$e$. $Sprint$'$s$ &$quot$;$Dip$&$quot$; $commercials$). $I$ $assume$ $you$'$ll$ $have$ $to$ $pay$ $for$ $that$ $funtionality$...
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