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  1.    #1  
    Before I write these comments, I want to go on record as saying that I've been using Palm devices since the Pilot 1000, and this one is by far the best I've ever used. And most of my complaints are due to my having bought the 600 on the day it came out and before Handspring had had a chance to get a lot of end-user feedback. Still, I've got a lot of gripes, most minor, but some really major. Here goes:

    (1) Although Handspring claim that they designed the 600 to be a phone first and a Palm device second, the phone part is surprisingly limited. For example, I make lots of calls to devices where I need to enter a password, and to numbers where I need to enter a calling card. Every phone I have ever used, going back to the days when a cell phone was the size of a small brick, has been able to pause dialing to allow the call to be completed before transmitting the remainder of the number. Usually, you can even specify a fixed waiting time before the extra numbers are dialed, or an indefinite pause until a key is pressed.

    You can only do something that approximates that in the 600 if you make the number a favorite. And then, all you can do is to have the extra numbers automatically appended without a pause (useless because you could have just made them part of the number if you wanted to do that) or to manually initiate the string. No option for an automatic pause. No option to have more than one appended string of numbers. And worst of all: to get this meager functionality, you have to use up a favorite (of which you are limited to 50!).

    Then there is the issue of international calls. Handspring have a sarcastic FAQ message about this on their web site where they say that if you want to append a + in front of your international phone numbers, go right ahead, but it will be ignored on a Sprint CDMA phone. I've got over a hundred international numbers from my Sprint Kyo 6035, all of which have + signs in front of them, which the 6035 recognized as the universal international prefix and appended 011 to them. This is extremely useful, because you can use your computer to dial these numbers from the Palm Desktop, and that program uses the Windows dialer which, of course, recognizes the + symbol and appends the relevent international access code for whatever country you are in. Now, if I have to go and edit each number to add 011 to the beginning, all of those contacts are useless to me for dialing through my laptop if I am out of the US.

    (2) More phone issues: I hate the new look of the contact lists. Because each number is now on a separate line instead of a drop down list, you can only see a few contacts on a page. To make matters worse, the 5-way navigation button only scrolls one line at a time, unlike the old Palm Up/Down keys which scrolled one page at a time. The lack of page up/down capability anywhere in the device is a real inconvenience.

    (3) Linking pictures and ringtones to contacts: Sure you can do it, but you have to use up your Favorites. Which brings me to ...

    (4) Only 50 favorites?!! I've had the phone only 3 days and I've already used them up. And many of them are phone passwords and credit cards, and ringtone/contact links. I had to waste so many Favorites to do that that I haven't been able to assign all the Quick Keys I need. And why aren't there multi-digit speedials? Any cheapo cellphone will allow you to put in several digits, and, if they correspond to a speedial number, holding the last one will dial the speedial. Not this $600 Treo. Also, why aren't speeddials that are assigned to letters that correspond to number keys also assigned to the corresponding number button on the onscreen dialpad? Lastly, why is it that Voice-mail is permanently assigned both to the E button and the 1 on the on-screen dialpad? I know that this is the most common location for this, but many phones let you assign voice mail to whatever button you want to.

    (5) One last phone issue: On every cell phone I've ever used, there is a Clr key that, if pressed once, will erase the last digit entered, and, if held down, will erase all digits. On the 600, the backspace key does the former, but not the latter.

    (6) Why is there no icon in the application launcher for contacts?

    (7) I acknowledge that this is a keyboard-driven device. Yet not having any form of input from the stylus other than tapping is just ridiculous. A $600 device shouldn't require you to pay extra for capabilities that come built in to the same OS on a $99 dollar device.

    (8) So many applications are ignorant of the 5-way navigation button. This is completely excusable when dealing with third-party applications, but not with the OS itself. There should be nothing in the default state of the device that you can't do using the tools provided.

    (9) No POP-3 client???!!??!?!? You gotta be kidding me.

    (10) No Sprint Business Connection. No SMS.

    Now don't get me wrong: I love this phone and I'll use it for years. I am completely happy with it and I paid full price with no rebate. I like it so much that even Charlton Heston couldn't pry it out of my cold dead hands. But it is exactly because it got so many things right that the ones it got wrong stick out so much.
    Regards,

    Robert
  2. #2  
    Point #1:
    Every phone I have ever used, going back to the days when a cell phone was the size of a small brick, has been able to pause dialing to allow the call to be completed before transmitting the remainder of the number. Usually, you can even specify a fixed waiting time before the extra numbers are dialed, or an indefinite pause until a key is pressed.
    Response:
    You should be able to do this - I can do this on my 300. Surely the 600 can as well - someone chime in here. It has to do with speed dials. 'Edit/Speed Dial' - would likely be Edit/Favorites on the 600.

    Point #2:
    To make matters worse, the 5-way navigation button only scrolls one line at a time, unlike the old Palm Up/Down keys which scrolled
    Response:
    On my 300, holding down the 'arrow up' key while pressing the up/down buttons allows for page scrolling. Surely the 5-way nav pad, in conjunction with arrow up on the 600 will do the same.

    Point #7:

    (7) I acknowledge that this is a keyboard-driven device. Yet not having any form of input from the stylus other than tapping is just ridiculous. A $600 device shouldn't require you to pay extra for capabilities that come built in to the same OS on a $99 dollar device
    Response:
    I kept Jot on my 300 for a while after I got it (after using Graffiti for a lllooonnngg time, I just knew I couldn't live without it) - I dumped it after a while. never used it. And - the 300 was not nearly as one-hand optimized as the 600 is.

    Point #9:


    (9) No POP-3 client???!!??!?!? You gotta be kidding me.
    Response:
    Lots of choices out there, some free. Eudora for one.

    Point #10:

    (10) No Sprint Business Connection. No SMS.
    Response:
    On their way. But - true, not there right now, today. The SMS is an issue for me as well, since I really use it a lot.

    Just some overall responses....
  3. jss134's Avatar
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    #3  
    Page 52 in the manual shows how to auto dial extra digits.
  4. #4  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by rbienstock
    [B]No option for an automatic pause. No option to have more than one appended string of numbers.

    I guess you missed the "Dial Extra Digits Automatically" Checkmark box under where you enter your extra digits?

    Checkmark it and they are dialed automatically.
    Don't checkmark it and you manually have to initiate the extra digits.
    And how many phone passcodes do you have where you need more than 50?
  5. Munir's Avatar
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    #5  
    I too love my T600. I'm upgrading from a Palm IIIe & a 3-yr old cell phone. However, I agree with many of the points you made. It's not about what fixes and hacks and third-party solutions are available or will be available inevitably, but what came as part of the device's inherent capabilities.

    - I wish there was a way to access the Contacts database on the PDA side.

    - I also don't like the display of the contacts lists where only 4-5 contacts can be seen due to all the numbers being shown. This should have been a collapsable layout using the 5-way pad so that you could see the list of contacts as a pure list only. I hope there is some key combo that enables scrolling page at a time.

    - speed dial capabilities are inadequate compared to much simpler phones.

    - when dialing a number that is in the Contacts list, the screen should show not just the name and number, but whether you're dialing their home/work/mobile etc.

    - you should be able to add incoming call numbers to an existing contact in the contacts database. right now, it seems you can only create a new contact based on an incoming call.

    Still a great phone & PDA, but the software needs a bit more refinement.
  6. #6  
    - you should be able to add incoming call numbers to an existing contact in the contacts database. right now, it seems you can only create a new contact based on an incoming call.
    I don't have a Treo 600 yet, but on the 300 you can hit the details button in call history and there is a copy phone # button. Then you go back to your contact you want to add the # to and paste. I would asume this functionality will remain in the 600.

    Anyone with one can confirm or deny?
  7. sbono13's Avatar
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    #7  
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by ShadowDweller
    [B]
    Originally posted by rbienstock
    No option for an automatic pause. No option to have more than one appended string of numbers.

    I guess you missed the "Dial Extra Digits Automatically" Checkmark box under where you enter your extra digits?

    Checkmark it and they are dialed automatically.
    Don't checkmark it and you manually have to initiate the extra digits.
    I think the original poster was complaining that this feature does not add a pause between the number and the extra digits, instead dialing the extra digits immediately following the phone number. This makes it useless of course in the case of extentions or passwords that have to be sent after the phone system picks up the call...
  8. Munir's Avatar
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    #8  
    yes, that is possible, but requires the use of the stylus or your fingernail. It's a half-baked solution in my opinion. You should be able to select an on-screen button to "Add number" and then be shown the contacts list screen which you can navigate to and select the contact, then move to the correct field and press a keyboard button or center of D-pad to finish. This should have been designed to be possible without the stylus.

    Right now, if you select the "Add" button it creates a brand new contact which you have to cancel out of before searching for the contact you actually want to add the number to.
  9. AJB
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    #9  
    Disclaimer: The Treo 600 isn't even available in Australia yet, so I'm speaking from what I've read, here and elsewhere, but...

    1. extra digits can be added to each favourite. I'll be pretty disappointed if there is no way to insert a pause. Have you tried a comma?

    2. Another surprise. There is no modifier key to change to page up/down?

    3. A shame to have to use them up for custom tones / picture ID.

    4. I absolutely agree about the 50 favourites. There is however a way to speed access the address book. Type first initial and part of last name. Not ideal but better than nothing.

    5. Another surprise. What about computer / PDA style short cuts? modifier key?

    6. Hmmm... the manual says
    Contacts is a view in Phone.
    Perhaps contacts is not in the application list because it isn't an application in its own right, but a component of the Phone application.

    7. I was really hoping that there would be some kind of graffiti input. Free download from treo?

    8. Which apps that ship aren't 5-way savvy?

    9. Sprint issue - blame them, not handspring. Pop 3 is on the GSM version.

    10. Sprint issue - blame them.

    AJB
    Last edited by AJB; 10/10/2003 at 07:41 PM.
  10. #10  
    You can insert a pause.

    Insert comma(s) (each comma represents a small pause) after the extra digits to be dialed in the "Extra Digits" field. Check the "Dial Extra Digits automatically" check box and you're done!

    The user manual is weak in this area and on most of the points above.

    Suffice it to say that I think the phone application is actually VERY good compared to standard phones (I also felt the same way about my old 300).
  11. #11  
    From what I understand Palm OS 5.2 allows you to use Graffiti 2, which allows writing directly on the screen instead of using a dedicated graffiti area. Whether or not the Treo 6 has it is a different story.
    If God brought you to it He'll bring you thru it!
  12. barjohn's Avatar
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    #12  
    You can get page up and page down by holding the option key down as you press the up or down arrow on the 5 way naviagtor. I tried to see if the was a lock function but could not find it. Double pressing the option key doesn't work, nor does pressing it before pressing the up/down naviagotr key. You must hold the option key while pressing the up/down navigator.

    Glad to know that adding comas works.

    By the way with sprint voice mail you have an option to turn off the passcode feature when calling from your phone.
    Last edited by barjohn; 10/10/2003 at 08:24 PM.
    John
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    (10) No Sprint Business Connection. No SMS.
    Response: On their way. But - true, not there right now, today. The SMS is an issue for me as well, since I really use it a lot.
    The lack of Mobile Originated SMS was an issue for me with my Treo 300, so I wrote a web application to help out. It's designed to make SMSing easy and quick through the browser - it's better than Sprint's SMS site IMHO. Was developed with the 300 in mind, but should work fine on the 600. Check it out here . See the Help and About links for more info. Anyone is free to use it. Let me know what you think.

    Thanks, Justin
  14. #14  
    thanks Justin, but Treo300SMS more than fits the bill for me. My issue is that they don't yet (if ever - I'm trying to get them to port to the 600, in spite of Sprint's plans for SMS) have a version for the 600.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by Munir
    I too love my T600. I'm upgrading from a Palm IIIe & a 3-yr old cell phone. However, I agree with many of the points you made. It's not about what fixes and hacks and third-party solutions are available or will be available inevitably, but what came as part of the device's inherent capabilities.

    - I wish there was a way to access the Contacts database on the PDA side.
    You mean other than Palm Desktop, Outlook or your favorate PIM?
    - I also don't like the display of the contacts lists where only 4-5 contacts can be seen due to all the numbers being shown. This should have been a collapsable layout using the 5-way pad so that you could see the list of contacts as a pure list only. I hope there is some key combo that enables scrolling page at a time.
    I agree that they could have done something better with this now that they have the 5-way nav (this has been this way since previous Treos). HOWEVER, the problem is not that bad since you could normally zoom in on the contact you want to call very quickly by typing his/her last name, first name or first letter of first name then last name. This is only a problem if you don't know who you want to call. When does that happen?
    speed dial capabilities are inadequate compared to much simpler phones.
    Speed dial on my Treo 270 doesn't get used at all. I type 2-4 letters of the name and I'm there. Why should I scroll around looking for the "speed dial" entry when I can find ANY person by typing his/her name.
    - when dialing a number that is in the Contacts list, the screen should show not just the name and number, but whether you're dialing their home/work/mobile etc.
    It does on my 270. Does this mean they took it out of the 600?? I find that hard to believe.
    - you should be able to add incoming call numbers to an existing contact in the contacts database. right now, it seems you can only create a new contact based on an incoming call.
    The previous Treos allow you to copy the number from the history list and I suspect that's the same here. You can then paste it in the contact. I agree this could be made smarter by automating it.
  16. #16  
    Seems rbienstock has an "O.U." error.

    As in, Oh you didn't read the manual.
    Volvo-driving, Sushi-eating, Latte-sipping Liberals Against Stereotypes.
  17.    #17  
    Originally posted by ToonFan
    Seems rbienstock has an "O.U." error.

    As in, Oh you didn't read the manual.
    O.N.U., as in Oh no, you either didn't read my message, the namual, or both. In fact I read the manual from cover to cover and even searched through the PDF version. None, or if you prefer, N.O.N.E., of the points I raised are covered there.
    Regards,

    Robert
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by rbienstock
    O.N.U., as in Oh no, you either didn't read my message, the namual, or both. In fact I read the manual from cover to cover and even searched through the PDF version. None, or if you prefer, N.O.N.E., of the points I raised are covered there.
    Being a previous Treo owner, I was also perplexed by the shortcomings you pointed out on your original post. I have to admit that I take a lot of things for granted, but I had answers or work-arounds for all the items on your list. If you were not a previous Treo owner, then I can understand that your limited experience contributed to your frustrations.
  19.    #19  
    Thanks for all the very helpful replies. I have some comments below:

    Originally posted by nrosser
    Point #1:
    Response:
    You should be able to do this - I can do this on my 300. Surely the 600 can as well - someone chime in here. It has to do with speed dials. 'Edit/Speed Dial' - would likely be Edit/Favorites on the 600.
    Originally posted by jss134
    Page 52 in the manual shows how to auto dial extra digits.
    Originally posted by ShadowDweller
    I guess you missed the "Dial Extra Digits Automatically" Checkmark box under where you enter your extra digits?

    Checkmark it and they are dialed automatically.
    Don't checkmark it and you manually have to initiate the extra digits.
    And how many phone passcodes do you have where you need more than 50?
    Originally posted by treotim
    You can insert a pause.

    Insert comma(s) (each comma represents a small pause) after the extra digits to be dialed in the "Extra Digits" field. Check the "Dial Extra Digits automatically" check box and you're done!
    OK, I had read the manual about this point, and I thought it would have been clear from my original post that I was commenting on how this feature works, not looking for it. The problem with the feature as implemented is (1) you can only input one string of extra digits, and (2) you have to use up a favorite to get it to work. Now the fact that commas work goes a long way to solve the problem. You can have multiple strings separated by commas, which is a big help. One flaw is that what you hear when the dialing string hits the comma is a musical tone that isn't DTMF. That masks whatever you might otherwise hear on the oter end. Not the end of the world in most cases, but you don't know if your call has failed until all the digits are dialed. And these strings can get quite complex. I am required to charge certain international calls to a Sprint FON card. The procedure is: (a) dial an 800 access number, (b) wait for a tone and input the phone number, and (c) wait for a second tone and input your PIN. The time between these various tones is variable. You can make it work with lots of commas, but it is tricky, and it would be much better to be able to put pauses and/or waits into the dialing string itself, and hear the results of what you've done as it is happening.

    As to my second point, I have a large number of non-personal voice mailboxes that I have to monitor at work, each with its own access number and password. There are also a number of people that I call whose offices have "auto attendants" where you get a recorded answer and you have to dial their extension to get through. My old Palm contacts list had these numbers input as (nnn) nnn-nnnn xnnnn. When I switched from a Palm V to a Kyocera 6035 the Kyo recognized these and would wait for me to press the jog dial and then dial the extension. So "x" was an undocumented wait command. The 600 not only ignores everything after the phone number, but it doesn't even display it, so you can't even know what the proper extension is unless you put it in the contact's name! In any event, putting all of these into favorites has really eaten them up. It really would be vastly better if one could enter the commas into the contacts

    Originally posted by nrosser
    Point #2:
    Response:
    On my 300, holding down the 'arrow up' key while pressing the up/down buttons allows for page scrolling. Surely the 5-way nav pad, in conjunction with arrow up on the 600 will do the same.
    Originally posted by barjohn
    You can get page up and page down by holding the option key down as you press the up or down arrow on the 5 way naviagtor. I tried to see if the was a lock function but could not find it. Double pressing the option key doesn't work, nor does pressing it before pressing the up/down naviagotr key. You must hold the option key while pressing the up/down navigator.
    Thanks barjohn. Holding the option key does, indeed, give you page up/down. Not exactly one-handed operation, but it is a partial answer at least.

    Originally posted by nrosser
    Point #9:
    Response:
    Lots of choices out there, some free. Eudora for one.

    Point #10:
    Response:
    On their way. But - true, not there right now, today. The SMS is an issue for me as well, since I really use it a lot.
    Right. As to the former, I use Snapper Mail. My Kyo 6035 came with Eudora. The GSM 600 has a Handspring mail client, so this is all Sprint's fault. As to the latter point, with Sprint, I'll believe it when I see it.

    Originally posted by ChemEngr
    Being a previous Treo owner, I was also perplexed by the shortcomings you pointed out on your original post. I have to admit that I take a lot of things for granted, but I had answers or work-arounds for all the items on your list. If you were not a previous Treo owner, then I can understand that your limited experience contributed to your frustrations.
    OK. As you can see from my comments above, my previous palmphone was a Kyocera. If you'd care to share some of the other answers or workarounds, I'd really appreciate it, especially about the international calls and the Clr key.

    Originally posted by treotim
    The user manual is weak in this area and on most of the points above.
    Tell it to ToonFan.
    Regards,

    Robert
  20. Munir's Avatar
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    #20  
    Silverado,

    On closer examination, it does show in parenthesis next to the name, for example:

    Contact Name (H)
    Contact Name (M)


    I guess after spending more time with the treo, like any device, things will become second nature and more intuitive. But there still seem to be some things Handspring, for all the great work they've done, choose not to rethink in light of the one-handed potential offered by the 5-way pad.
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