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  1. BD1
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       #1  
    JakeE, WBO, and other knowledgeable Treo experts.....what is your best guess for a hi-res 320x320 or better Treo 600?

    6 months?
    9 months?
    12+ months?

    How soon did the 270 get released after the 180?

    I am getting the current Treo 600 asap but I will upgrade as soon as a better screen is available. Coming from the pocketpc world I think this will be the biggest shortcoming for me. Right now bluetooth is not as import to me but realize for other it is more important.
  2. #2  
    I'm not an expert by any means, but I think it's going to be a balancing act for them - the best way to give sales a jolt after the T600 has been out for a while would be to release a 601 or 650, with higher resolution and maybe one or two other minor tweaks. On the other hand, this is such a niche item - will it make financial sense for them to have TWO versions floating around in the same general time frame? As far as I know, the Treo 300 that you'd buy today is identical to the release version, other than bug fixes.

    I think the best conservative guess is that we'll have to wait for the next model, meaning a year or more. But who knows ...

    I will say, for my uses, resolution isn't nearly as big a deal as I thought it would be. I moved from an iPAQ 5455 to a Treo 300. The iPAQ screen is definitely better, but after I got some play out of my system re: loading a photo editor, Age of Empires, etc on the iPAQ, I lost interest in that stuff and reverted to calendar, address book, and (on the Treo) e-mail, IM. 160x160 is IMO fine for those things, although 320x320 would be a little nicer.
  3. #3  
    is there any chance that they'll release a new model sooner, since they've got palm backing again and palm releases what, 3 models at a time? It's going to be tough going back to a 160x160 screen from the Clie. Especially when it comes to the maps and other reference materials I like to keep on my pda.
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by BD1
    JakeE, WBO, and other knowledgeable Treo experts.....what is your best guess for a hi-res 320x320 or better Treo 600?

    6 months?
    9 months?
    12+ months?

    How soon did the 270 get released after the 180?

    I am getting the current Treo 600 asap but I will upgrade as soon as a better screen is available. Coming from the pocketpc world I think this will be the biggest shortcoming for me. Right now bluetooth is not as import to me but realize for other it is more important.
    BD1:

    This is pure conjecture on my behalf but I would say less than 6 months. Why???

    My logic is as follows: In order to steal the thunder and capitalize on the huge advantage Palm will have with the Treo 600 they need stay ahead of the curve. At the San Francisco Mission Possible launch event for the Treo 600, David Nagel, the CEO of PalmSource said he loved his Treo 600 and that he had been using it for a month and that he was not going to trade it in for any other model. I think David really gets it!!! At least, I hope so?!?

    If Jeff Hawkins, Donna Dubinsky and Peter Skillman did not realize the Treo 600 needed a 320x320 after being bombarded at the SF event earlier this week with the same question over and over and over again, they do now!!!

    If Palm is shrewd they will haul-*** toward 320x320. In Part 4 of my series I show what the Treo 600 would look like with a 480x320 screen!!! (Part 4 should be up within a week.)

    I must emphasize to everyone who reads this that it is my recommendation to obtain a Treo 600 as soon as possible. First because it was really designed to be optimized for 160x160. The 160x160 screen is so bright and clear, and since it is smaller than the screens on the current Treo’s it looks much sharper. Secondly, the Treo 600 will have excellent resale value when the higer res screen becomes available. Thirdly, the Treo 600 is a superb tool, with so many powerful features like the camera and one handed operations.

    I cannot emphasize how important one-handed, stylus free operation is. Also, how useful and valuable it is to always have a digital camera with you…Absolutely invaluable. Plus the Treo 600 just looks so 007ish. Not to mention with its MP3 player built in you don’t have to carry around an iPod or MP3 player.

    This thing is going to rock!!!! (Pun intended)

    + 5-7 hours of phone talk time!!! Email in your hand everywhere you go! Ability to surf the web if you need to??? Also if YOU invest ahead of the curve and become and early adopter when you upgrade next time there will be no significant learning curve.

    The bottom line is that nobody likes to buy something they have to upgrade every six months but I can tell you that in my personal opinion this will be perhaps the greatest exception to that rule!!!

    Go ahead, dive in; live!!!

    Jake

    P.S. Also BD1: You said “I am getting the current Treo 600 asap but I will upgrade as soon as a better screen is available. Coming from the pocketpc world I think this will be the biggest shortcoming for me. Right now bluetooth is not as import to me but realize for other it is more important.”

    I switched over to the Treo 180 from an iPaq PPC the day the 180 became available. The day the 270 was available, I upgraded, but my point is that after I had the Treo I did not miss the higher res screen that my iPaq had.

    The only time I ever really noticed a difference was when I was viewing photos which is less than 5% of the time.

    I agree with you about Bluetooth. Today it is not a high-priority, in 6 months it will be everything!!!

    Also, the Treo 600 is light years beyond any current M$ product. I mean light years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by JakeE; 10/04/2003 at 11:34 AM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  5. #5  
    I expect a spring release of a Treo 600+ that has bluetooth and high res screen (the kind they need exists now) with 64 MB or more of memery. I do not think they will up processor speed.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  6. #6  
    I'm no math genius, but based on my math:

    2" x 2" and 160x160 = 80 dpi

    If we went to 320x320, you're talking about either a 4" x 4" screen, or a 2" x 2" screen at *160 dpi* (pointless). Or somewhere in between on both counts.

    If they kept the same screen size and went up to, say, 240x240, I'd be happy. I won't buy a phone/PDA that has a screen any bigger than the one on a Treo 300.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by wombat2
    I'm no math genius, but based on my math:

    2" x 2" and 160x160 = 80 dpi

    If we went to 320x320, you're talking about either a 4" x 4" screen, or a 2" x 2" screen at *160 dpi* (pointless). Or somewhere in between on both counts.

    If they kept the same screen size and went up to, say, 240x240, I'd be happy. I won't buy a phone/PDA that has a screen any bigger than the one on a Treo 300.
    Wombat2:

    You bring up an excellent point.

    If you examine the new Sony UX50 screen it is the exact same width as the Treo 600 screen except the UX50 screen is about ¾ of an inch taller because it has a 320x480 native resolution.

    If you simply replaced the Treo 600 screen with a UX50 screen it would make the Treo 600 amazing except (as you pointed out) you would need to scale the OS up so that applications looked the same. For instance, you would want the date book application, To do application or Telephone Application to have the fonts be the same size and look exactly the same as they do on the current Treo 600. (for readability reasons)

    This would of course require a complete overhaul of the UI yet again. What some people may not realize—and this is one of the things that makes the Treo 600 so amazing—is that Handspring basically created a whole new UI for the Treo 600 so that all the applications could take advantage of the 5 way navigation button.

    This should not be a big deal though.

    Food for thought!

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  8. #8  
    Yeah, since the Palm/Handspring merger, and the information released regarding a "family line" of Treo's, I think that Next Spring/Summer would be a where I would put my money.

    Think about it. There is space for the bluetooth chip. OS6 comes out at the end of this year. Memory is easy to add. The High-Res screen technology is here TODAY. Basically, this is a relatively easy device to put together (mostly just software modifications), and extends the life of the Treo line tremendously. After those issues are addressed, then work on a true sequel to the Treo could begin.

    My biggest holdup now with the 600 isn't any of the hardware specs, its OS5. From what I have read, OS5is a transition OS, and consequently, many 3rd party accessories are delayed because Palm has made development of drivers difficult unless you are a "Palm Ready developer," or something like that. OS6 looks to resolve this problem by having a much better development environment, where you don't need access to all sorts of OS source code and documentation.

    Honestly, though I'm not a tech, so I can't say this for sure. But I have heard these sentiments echoed among these and other boards. And it makes sense if you consider the kinds of things that have been announced, but have not come to fruition:

    Pocketop IR keyboard: Drivers for tons of devices, except NONE for any OS 5. Their official line is that they will be releasing them in the fall. Right around when OS6 comes out...

    Bluetooth/Wifi SD cards: How many are out right now that work with OS 5? We should have seen them a long time ago, but no new news on that front.

    If anyone can convince me otherwise, I'd love to hear it, otherwise, I'll assume that I understand the situation correctly. In which case I guess I'll be watching this product launch from the sidelines.
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by ardint
    Their official line is that they will be releasing them in the fall. Right around when OS6 comes out...
    .
    As far as I know an OS 6 device is not even expected until fall 04 . . . i'll take the treo 600 and os 5.
  10. #10  
    Yeah but they also cannot to subsidise stock at the carriers end when they launch T6xx the udpated brother. IF they did plan this right with a T600 160x160 no BT at first to see the market but have the ability to put BT (space on the board) and a 320x320 screen of the same 2x2 inch then they can put it out as the T650 or some such. This will allow markets to have early adopts pave the way. We sell ours and new users join in, plus they could lower the price of the T600 by offering the T650 a bit more upscale.
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by ardint
    Yeah, since the Palm/Handspring merger, and the information released regarding a "family line" of Treo's, I think that Next Spring/Summer would be a where I would put my money.

    Think about it. There is space for the bluetooth chip. OS6 comes out at the end of this year. Memory is easy to add. The High-Res screen technology is here TODAY. Basically, this is a relatively easy device to put together (mostly just software modifications), and extends the life of the Treo line tremendously. After those issues are addressed, then work on a true sequel to the Treo could begin.

    My biggest holdup now with the 600 isn't any of the hardware specs, its OS5. From what I have read, OS5is a transition OS, and consequently, many 3rd party accessories are delayed because Palm has made development of drivers difficult unless you are a "Palm Ready developer," or something like that. OS6 looks to resolve this problem by having a much better development environment, where you don't need access to all sorts of OS source code and documentation.

    Honestly, though I'm not a tech, so I can't say this for sure. But I have heard these sentiments echoed among these and other boards. And it makes sense if you consider the kinds of things that have been announced, but have not come to fruition:

    Pocketop IR keyboard: Drivers for tons of devices, except NONE for any OS 5. Their official line is that they will be releasing them in the fall. Right around when OS6 comes out...

    Bluetooth/Wifi SD cards: How many are out right now that work with OS 5? We should have seen them a long time ago, but no new news on that front.

    If anyone can convince me otherwise, I'd love to hear it, otherwise, I'll assume that I understand the situation correctly. In which case I guess I'll be watching this product launch from the sidelines.
    I think the only question is whether having a Treo 600 would make your life significantly better, and the only way to answer that is to ask what PDA phone solution you are currently using?

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  12. #12  
    Sorry, I can't wait! If I ever thought I had the will power to wait another 6 months to get a Treo 600, all of those ideas quickly disintegrated after seeing it in person. I'm going to get one as soon as possible, and if an upgrade comes out next spring that is worth getting, then I'll sell my old one and upgrade. It's that simple! It's worth it just to be part of this history in the making. The Treo 600 is pure magic!
    RayUSA

    "The future will be better tomorrow."
    - Dan Quayle
  13. #13  
    Originally posted by RayUSA
    Sorry, I can't wait! If I ever thought I had the will power to wait another 6 months to get a Treo 600, all of those ideas quickly disintegrated after seeing it in person. I'm going to get one as soon as possible, and if an upgrade comes out next spring that is worth getting, then I'll sell my old one and upgrade. It's that simple! It's worth it just to be part of this history in the making. The Treo 600 is pure magic!
    Hi Ray!

    Sounds like Love at first sight!!!

    I agree with you 100%. For those of you who have not seen one in person, like Ray said, it is magical!!!

    This magic quality that Ray speaks of made me sit down and write a 20 page review because I was so impressed and I could not imagine not sharing all the information I gained with the members of this forum:

    For those of you that missed it you can read my review:

    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/240-1.htm

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  14. #14  
    Given that Sprint is about to release their Push-To-Talk service, and that no current hardware (i.e. phone) is compatible, I wonder if we will see an updated Treo that WILL be compatible?

    While I am dreaming, maybe they will finally have voice dial?


    <sigh>
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by miradu
    I expect a spring release of a Treo 600+ that has bluetooth and high res screen (the kind they need exists now) with 64 MB or more of memery. I do not think they will up processor speed.
    Is that just your wish or is it based on anything you've heard from reliable sources?
  16. #16  
    From a marketing point of view, I'd say they'd have to let the sales of T-600 to die down a little before they roll out the T-650 or whatever it'll be called. This might take half a year or 3 quarters?

    From an engineering point of view, it's possible to release a new model fairly soon.

    bluetooth: They could have T-600 + bluetooth out in about 3 months, since it was planned into their circuit boards. Don't forget, the engineering and design department would have started work on the T-650 at least a month ago, because their work with the T-600 would've been finnished quite a while before product launch. Come to think of it, they would have to be done for longer than that, since the design would have to be sent to production (China?)... and we heard that the T-600 were in production like 2 months ago at least?

    high res screen: From the reports of other people on this board, the technology for the high-res screen is definately around. The problem would be in interfacing. This depends on rather or not they need a new LCD controller chip for the hi-res screen. If they could just plug in the new screen and interface it to the same chip (kinda doubtful there), then they HAVE THE ABILITY to row it out in about 3 months. If the current LCD controller chip does not support hi-res, they are screwed. I'd say it would take at least half a year to 9 months to redesign the circuit board and put it together again. If the high-res screen doesn't fit into the old case/circuit board, then they are screwed. This would involve major work to redesign most of the circuit boards, and the case. This would probably be a year. If they get a custom designed LCD, then it would take time for the LCD company to make it for them... this would be like another half year...

    CPU: Change the CPU? that's equivalent to changing the whole phone, from the circuits point of view. Yeah, maybe for Treo 700 or something... a major update when they redesign things from ground up. Don't expect that to come soon.

    The conclusion though, is this: $$$$ is the universal motivator, and they won't push a new product out to compete with their own product. Therefore, I still say at least half year to 9 months for them to "want to" push out the new version.

    This would of course require a complete overhaul of the UI yet again. What some people may not realize—and this is one of the things that makes the Treo 600 so amazing—is that Handspring basically created a whole new UI for the Treo 600 so that all the applications could take advantage of the 5 way navigation button.
    This is incorrect. The nice thing about PalmOS is that it is reasonably adaptable to different screen resolutions. It should be fairly quick to change the programs. I'd say with a team of people, you can do it in about a week.

    Is that just your wish or is it based on anything you've heard from reliable sources?
    Logically, there CAN NOT be reliable sources at this point. Nobody would be dumb enough to kill their PRODUCT LAUNCH sales by announcing information about the newer, better product that is being designed.
    Last edited by conflagrare; 10/04/2003 at 08:02 PM.
  17. #17  
    Since I think that both Handspring, the industry, and the consumer will be happier with the Treo 600 form factor, HS/Palm will probably start releasing iterations with the same form factor to keep sales going as they start to drop. This may even be why they left out BT in this release.

    BT will be easy for them to implement because the chip location is already on the board. More memory will be easy too. These should also not be major hits to the device life. Higher res screens will be a little more difficult due to the space limitation and the increase power draw of a better screen.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by lnichols
    Higher res screens will be a little more difficult due to the space limitation and the increase power draw of a better screen.
    They'd have to ditch battery life for the high-res screen.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by conflagrare


    They'd have to ditch battery life for the high-res screen.
    Not if they can improve the high-res tech to draw the same amount of power as the current, but this would likely take a year or so.
  20. #20  
    craigdt:

    The OS 6 SDK will be released to developers on Dec. 29. Based on that information, I would say 3rd party manufacturers will release at the end of 2004, as you guessed. But I would also wager that palm branded products (which the next treo will essentially be) using OS 6 will hit the streets in the summer, with palm's next line of handelds. At the very least, we will see one OS 6 device, most likely an updated T3 with WiFi.

    Jake:

    Well said (like usual). My current device is none other than the Treo 300. As many probably guessed from my previous post, I have the pocketop keyboard (awesome BTW), and my critical software includes snappermail for email, quickoffice for Word and Excel, and Xiino for web browsing, which I hear blows away Blazer 2 in terms of speed.

    So you can quickly see why I would be hesitant to upgrade to OS 5 at this point. My keyboard and web browser of choice will no longer work, and the replacements are inferior, in my opinion.

    About battery life and high res:

    I still don't buy this line. I started my professional career in sales, and I've developed a pretty good BS detector over the years, and my gut tells me this issue was really about price and availablity, both of which have improved dramatically since the T600 was originally conceived many moons ago. If bluetooth was included, I would agree that high res would have a significant impact on battery life, but that isn't the case here.



    Speakling strictly from a business point of view, an updated release in summer or early fall of next year makes perfect sense. Remember the intended market for this phone (corporations and tech-heads). They will have already gotten the phone, or in the case of very large organizations, will be committed to it in the form of field testing. Those companies that hold outwill do so most likely because of concerns over security, or complaints about lack of high res or bluetooth, most likely coming from people who have had those features in previous devices.

    An updated Treo with OS 6, bluetooth, and high res, would address all of the major issues. They would be in the perfect position to capture a significant portion of their target audience who may have passed the first time around. And the investment would be minimal.

    At that point, the 600 will be dropping in price anyway, so you can now market the orginal as a "consumer version" for IT guys without a business account and people with money to burn, and a new, updated "corporate version."

    The only thing that gives me any reservations about my predictions is Palm's recent statement about turning OS 5 into a "phone" OS. So while I believe that an updated Treo will be released within a 6-12 months, I'm not convinced that it will include OS 6.

    But by that time, the 6 SDK will have been out for a while, giving 3rd party developers the tools they need to create and update their products for OS 5 and 6. So they only thing I will miss is native ARM applications.

    Needless to say, everything I have written is based on a mixture of good business sense, experience and information I have gathered from what I believe are reliable and knowledgable posts on boards such as these. While I could very well be wrong, I think I'm going to hold on to my 300 for a while.
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