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  1.    #1  
    OK, the replacement for the T-Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition will be on these shores before the Christmas selling season and in Europe this month. Could it deal a major blow to Handspring/Palm in the integrated device arena?

    The new T-Mobile MDA-II, Pocket PC will have...
    - 400MHz XScale PXA263 CPU
    - 128MB of RAM
    - 32MB of ROM
    - 240x320 TFT
    - Bluetooth
    - .3 Mpixel camera (640x480), with light adjustments and video capability
    - SDIO expansion slot
    - Windows Mobile 2003 Phone Edition
    - IBM Java, a PDF viewer, Pocket Word, Excel, Internet Explorer, Outlook, and MSN messenger

    The Treo 600 has it beat in size, and has a keyboard, and will keep the die hard Palm OS fans, but the rest looks like trouble.
    I don't think it can touch the processor, bluetooth, built-in memory, and the MDA's camera from what I have seen takes better pictures, and can record video as a bonus. I don't think Blazer can compete with Internet Explorer either. IE can open any page I've tried, does streaming audio and video, and has a Real Player plugin. I find it convenient to be able to view PDF, Word and Excel files out of the box. My boss has the current Pocket PC, and Outlook has worked great with our corporate e-mail as well, after finally getting it set up properly. POP3, was easier, and web based worked fine in IE. The only thing I like better for e-mail is my Blackberry, but it is weak at everything else.

    If the Treo is cheaper and significantly smaller, I may still get it, but for now I'm putting off getting it on day 1, and waiting 'til I can do a side-by-side.

    T-Mobile MDA-II
  2. #2  
    You forgot to mention the price. I believe that if this is the same as the HTC XDAII, that the price is around $850.
  3. #3  
    No keyboard, no palm OS no sale
  4.    #4  
    Originally posted by jhoff80
    You forgot to mention the price. I believe that if this is the same as the HTC XDAII, that the price is around $850.
    The predicted price for the US is $599, and $499 with new service contract.
  5. #5  
    this is just a different type of device. Like it was said above - no keyboard, no go, at least for those who use their devices that way. Cool looking, I'll grant ya, but not as functional for heavy text and messaging use. Just a different device, that's all.
  6. #6  
    The predicted price for the US is $599, and $499 with new service contract.
    that's not what I"ve seen. It seems to me that I've seen the new with service contract is somewhere around $750.00. at $499 it would be less expensive then other PPC devices that have the same features but no phone. While that might be possible I find it unlikely.
  7. #7  
    This won't appeal to the same people that the Treo will appeal to. It could have a 10 GHz processor, and I still wouldn't buy it due to lack of a thumbboard. I'm not anti-PPC, either. I used to own an iPAQ 5455, sold it due to lack of a Sprint Bluetooth phone (also because I wanted to lighten my pockets). As for Pocket Windows and the set of applications, though, I thought it was great.
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by RMitch
    The Treo 600 has it beat in size, and has a keyboard, and will keep the die hard Palm OS fans, but the rest looks like trouble.
    I don't think it can touch the processor, bluetooth, built-in memory, and the MDA's camera from what I have seen takes better pictures, and can record video as a bonus.
    Just remember that MS PPC requires more ram and more processing power to perform at the same same level of a Palm OS device since the OS is more bloated (like all MS products). Also remember that more memory and faster processors typically will use more power, and HS wanted to have phone-like battery life, not PDA-like battery life.

    Bluetooth will be an issue for some but not all as it still is not a must have for many in phones. I would expect to see Bluetooth in the next version and a bluetooth SDIO that will work on the current version in the near future.
  9. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #9  
    .
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #10  
    The XDAII has optional CF sledge. (easy way to add GPS, and video in and out.) Optional big battery, optional car navigations etc.

    It quit trying to be a cute phone and just offers the best PDA feature out there.

    But overall with 128MB, this won't be a cheap device. It'll be $7-800.
  11. #11  
    I think "Microsoft bloat" is overstated - I think they make stuff a lot more elaborate and fancy than Palm does, which isn't all bad - but I will agree that my iPAQ 5455 (400 MHz) didn't see much, if any, faster than my Tungsten T (144 MHz). In fact, it didn't seem much faster than my Treo 300 (33 MHz).

    I actually like the Pocket Windows interface, as well as the way it works with Windows on a desktop. I would never fault anyone for buying a PPC device. It's just that the Treo is unique in that it has a good form factor and a thumbboard. The 600 also has some other nice bells and whistles, but if there was a small PPC with a thumbboard, I'd consider that, too. There just isn't one. I think they are limited by the uniform screen size, which is a nice plus visually, but a real handicap in terms of designing something to be used as a phone.

    The Hitachi G1000 is as big as a toaster oven.
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #12  
    once you hit 300mHz, the speed difference GUI GUI isn't really that much. You can go to store and flick PPC buttons and it'll flip through screen as fast as you can flick it.

    the speed will benefit heavy duty apps, like running codec, emulation, multitasking, database/spreadsheet stuff. Gaming actually is one of the more demanding apps. Bais simple apps won't appear that much faster.

    about UI, Palm GUI will sooner or later turns into bloat as features are added, observe T3/NX. the display has more icons and pop up menu than basic PPC interface. Add a few more icons and it'll put evem pocket informant to shame.

    I don't think thumboard will ever make it big in PPC. It's bulkier, more expensive to make, and most advance PPC apps sort of make the idea of thumboard moot.

    I'll put my bet h4135 will be the only thumboard model in iPAQ line, just like treo 90. Thumboard is the kind PHB or senate staffs using, not long time PDA users. That's what HWR or soft inputs are for.
  13. #13  
    If you use a PDA for significant text entry - for example, sending e-mails, SMS or IM - a thumbboard is a BIG deal.

    I can do maybe 8 wpm with HWR or the software keyboard. I can do about 25 wpm with a thumbboard. That is the difference between using e-mail only as a novelty or to prove a point, and using e-mail as an organic part of your routines.

    once you hit 300mHz, the speed difference GUI GUI isn't really that much. You can go to store and flick PPC buttons and it'll flip through screen as fast as you can flick it.
    That may or may not be true in the store, but it hasn't been my experience in use. All PDAs I have owned have had minor delays at times depending what they were doing. The iPAQ had very long delays while loading mp3 playlists, but, at least it COULD load mp3 playlists. My Treo 300 doesn't have expansion cards so it really can't do that at all. I would honestly rate the apparent, user's view, real-world speed of all of my devices about the same despite the big variation in processors. The Treo may seem a touch slower switching apps, but not enough to be a useability issue. The PPC apps were "fancier", though, so while they didn't have a speed advantage, they did have advantages in how rich, detailed and graphical the software seemed.

    My PDAs so far in 2003: Tungsten T, Tungsten C, iPAQ 5455, Treo 300.

    Again, I'm not arguing for or against either platform. If the Treo 600 ran Pocket Windows but was otherwise essentially the same, I'd gladly buy it. It just so happens that the Treo 600 is the closest on the market to the overall form factor/features that I want, for the device to be an integral, natural part of my daily routines.
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #14  
    I can do maybe 8 wpm with HWR or the software keyboard. I can do about 25 wpm with a thumbboard. That is the difference between using e-mail only as a novelty or to prove a point, and using e-mail as an organic part of your routines.
    try tengo, fitaly or other soft inputs. It has different feels to it, but they do nicely. I use tengo for that emailing while standing up. For writing notes, I much prefer Transcriber. It feels much more natural. Of course I rarely write more than about a page in PDA.

    Creating Playlist is notoriously slow, the PDA has to cycle through hundreds of songs sometimes in big SD card, try it with your T|C. It won't be instanteneous I can guarantee you. The player has to read each songs header and make a list.

    It would be interesting to see how fast treo 600 can display and manage huge 512MB SD card with tens of thousand of files. That takes power to search and sort.
  15. #15  
    I don't see how they can sell it that low. The I700 was $600 with 1yr and $500 w/ 2yr contract. It was nice, but a bit bulky and no keyboard. The Windows interface I do agree is nice and I like the today screen and themes.

    But multitasking isn't all that its cracked up to be anyways. I have to put a task mgr on to close the apps that don't close when you hit the "x" in the right corner. 64MB of that RAM is storage the other 64MB is for running the apps. So it does have more memory but not quadruple the memory.

    PPC and POS will contintue to criss cross each other and at one point maybe we can have a dual os device. That would be wild.
  16. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #16  
    64MB of that RAM is storage the other 64MB is for running the apps. So it does have more memory but not quadruple the memory.

    ehm.... XDA II is 32MB rom/128MB ram, not 64rom/64ram.

    Inside the ROM also contains what Palm user put in RAM as third party apps, such as browser, pocket office, email, various utility such as file/soft inputs, media player, etc.
  17. #17  
    ehm.... XDA II is 32MB rom/128MB ram, not 64rom/64ram.

    Inside the ROM also contains what Palm user put in RAM as third party apps, such as browser, pocket office, email, various utility such as file/soft inputs, media player, etc.
    ROMs in WM2003 devices do not always allow the user to store data in them. Not all of them have room.

    ROMs in Palm OS 5.x devices occasionally have 3rd party apps in them.

    The world is not as cut and dried as you seem to think.

    There is also the issue of the way WM2003 and Palm handle memory and the size of programs for both devices.

    The two platforms are different and you can't really compare basic stats of the devices.
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by purpleX

    It would be interesting to see how fast treo 600 can display and manage huge 512MB SD card with tens of thousand of files. That takes power to search and sort.
    That depends on the filebase. If PalmOS keeps an index of all mp3 files (and probably every other type of file), then it could search through 512 meg pretty darn quick, cuz all the information you'd need would be compressed into a couple k. Given the "database" structure of the file system, I'd say there's a good chance that's true.
  19. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #19  
    Originally posted by Luzerman
    ROMs in WM2003 devices do not always allow the user to store data in them. Not all of them have room.

    ROMs in Palm OS 5.x devices occasionally have 3rd party apps in them.

    The world is not as cut and dried as you seem to think.
    So what are you trying to say? That treo is better because Palm OS 5.x "ocassionally" has third party in them, just like 'file store' in PPC, we we are not certain how big the free ROM in treo 600 is? Or that 128MB user accessible is a lousy preposition compared to les than 64MB in treo?

    There is also the issue of the way WM2003 and Palm handle memory and the size of programs for both devices.
    What issue? Run time size? manual/automatic memory allocation size? Are you saying treo 600 uses zero run time in RAM?

    do explain.
  20. #20  
    great another 4 pound ppc product. if i want a to carry around high res screens, excel spread sheets, show movies, etc. etc.while having the ability to make calls. i'll buy a card and carry my dell inspiron.

    give me a break on this tech heavy crap and all the added features. when and where the hell does half this come in to play in your life when your mobil? the treo is a communication device and with palm os some nice easy to use scheduling and planning features. make a product reliable, compact, fast, easy to use and inexpensive and you have something that will sell.

    unless the world begins to enjoy looking down all day, most of this is over kill thats a drain on battery, patience and productivity. In fact, a real turn off to the much sought after untapped market.

    Frankly, i don't know what the hell the designers of some of these devices are thinking. certainly not grabbing market share.



    i
    Last edited by JTREOB; 10/04/2003 at 02:51 PM.
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