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  1.    #1  
    I think the Treo 600 looks very cool. As many of you know, I don't like the fact that the keyboard is smaller as I already feel that the Treo 300's keyboard is too small. I'm also tired of low-res and am long overdue for a high-res screen. Lastly, I don't like what I've seen in terms of picture quality coming from the camera.

    I could add a few more nitpicks, but I do want to say that it's a cool looking phone, and I really like that they spent time trying to get one-handed operation working so as to reduce the need to use a stylus (though on the other side of the coin, because the screen is physically smaller, it's going to be more frustrating when you do want to use the stylus as it will be harder to position your cursor, select things on-screen, etc.).

    That said, I could definitely see the Treo 600 being perfect for my wife. She never had any desire to try and learn Graffiti and has been very happy with the Treo 300's thumbboard. She could also care less about the low-res screen. What she'd probably want most that the current Treos are missing is the MP3 capability that the Treo 600 has.

    Still, the point of my post is that I'm a bit confused by how much excitement there is about this device. The reason I'm so confused is that the rumored price is looking like $500 (possibly as low as $400 after contract discounts). That's 4-5x as much as the Treo 300 can be had for right now ($100).

    Asked another way...Why isn't there a lot of excitement about the fact that you can get most of what the Treo 600 has to offer for only $100 by getting a Treo 300?

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #2  
    I think the 300 at $99 is a great value. The lack of excitement on this site is probably only because the majority of people here have alredy bought their first generation Treo and aren't interested in getting another one.

    The excitement about the 600 is because of all the new advantages it offers not the least of which the much better form factor (for most), build quality and appearance, considerably higher speed, better screen, one-handed operation, SD card, etc.
  3. randyg's Avatar
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    #3  
    you're not doing a fair comparison here! the 600 is new, not even out yet. the 300 is not new. the ONLY reason you can get it so cheap is because of discounts from carriers/HS/amazon/etc. you've got to compare it to the price of the 300 when it was new. have you priced a 300 on ebay, they aren't on there for $99. last time i checked they were going for around $300. who wants to pay $300 for a phone that's getting phased out when you could spend a little more and get the next model?
    also, if you don't like the 600, you don't have to buy it! there are other options out there you should consider. or you could just get the 600 and be unhappy with it.
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by Scott R

    Still, the point of my post is that I'm a bit confused by how much excitement there is about this device. The reason I'm so confused is that the rumored price is looking like $500 (possibly as low as $400 after contract discounts). That's 4-5x as much as the Treo 300 can be had for right now ($100).

    Asked another way...Why isn't there a lot of excitement about the fact that you can get most of what the Treo 600 has to offer for only $100 by getting a Treo 300?

    Scott
    I think you really aren't looking at the pricing correctly, IMHO.

    The 300's $99 price is available ONLY through Handspring, it is $399 at Sprint.

    When the 600 comes out and you can get it at $499, or maybe $399 with a tradeup discount, it seems to be fairly priced.

    With the improvements on the 600 (over the 300) such as faster processor, more memory, newer OS, camera, SD slot and some additional software we bought for the 300, one could even argue (not successfully, perhaps, at first) that it is a price decrease.

    Now you may argue with this, but when Dell or Gateway or IBM announces their newest, prices go up for the new ones, and down for the old ones. Many times the feature set is not significantly upgraded, not to the extent we have with the 600.

    As for me, with the HS tradeup discount ... it will be a great deal for me and what I use my 300 for.
  5. #5  
    I think that most of as are just pure gadet freaks. Hey if this thing was just a Treo 400 (300 with SD slot) I would buy one.
  6. #6  
    Why can you buy a new previous model car for 1000's less than the new redesigned model getting ready to replace it or that is on the dealer's lot?

    The Treo 300 is the old model, the Treo 600 is the new, sleaker, better made model with more horsepower that fixes many of the issues with the 300 (size, one-handed operation, processing power, current palm OS, etc). The Treo 300 is good, but HS wants to clear them out while they can and the best way to do it is to give em away cheap. You may even be able to get them cheaper when the 600 is out and you can actually buy them.

    In a year or two the 600 will be that cheap and the 900??? will be coming out to fix some of the complaints and problems found in the 600.
  7.    #7  
    Originally posted by randyg
    you're not doing a fair comparison here! the 600 is new, not even out yet. the 300 is not new. the ONLY reason you can get it so cheap is because of discounts from carriers/HS/amazon/etc. you've got to compare it to the price of the 300 when it was new.
    Well I definitely disagree with this. If I was a consumer who didn't own a Treo and I was interested in what the Treo concept had to offer, I would look at what I could buy today. Well, I could buy a Treo 300 for $100, or I could buy a Treo 600 for what looks like $400-500. I then have to ask myself if those extra features, smaller design, etc. are worth the significantly higher price.

    Obviously, for many people here, the answer seems to be "yes." There's a lot of buzz about the Treo 600 and I think it may do well initially among those who can afford it and the early-adopters who like what it has to offer. But I don't think that demand will last long or result in large sale volumes. If palmOne/Handspring have low expectations in sales volumes and are happy with that, then good for them. But I disagree with anyone who predicts that this phone is going to make much of a dent in smartphone sales at this price point.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #8  
    > ...But I don't think that demand will last long or result in large
    > sale volumes. If palmOne/Handspring have low expectations in
    > sales volumes and are happy with that, then good for them.
    > But I disagree with anyone who predicts that this phone is
    > going to make much of a dent in smartphone sales at this price
    > point.

    That sounds familiar!

    And if not apparent - totally agreed.
  9.    #9  
    Originally posted by lnichols
    Why can you buy a new previous model car for 1000's less than the new redesigned model getting ready to replace it or that is on the dealer's lot?
    Let's not confuse things by talking about "thousands of dollars." That's meaningless without the proper perspective. Thousands of dollars for a car is a small percentage in price difference. The Treo 300 can be had for 20-30% of the cost of the Treo 600. With no miles on it!

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10.    #10  
    So that I don't come across as posting nothing but gloom and doom, let me add this...

    Back when Handspring was just Handspring and the rumors of the Treo 600 specs and price point were coming out, it wasn't looking good for them, IMO. I had to wonder whether Handspring was just being really greedy by selling this at this price or if it really was costing them a lot of money to produce them. If the latter, it wouldn't be good for them as a company, because as I said they won't sell a lot of them at this price.

    Here's the good news...palmOne and Handspring are merging. palmOne just released a few handhelds that offer very good bang-for-the-buck. This demonstrates to me that palmOne is capable of producing PDAs at a reasonable price that still earn them a profit (of course, they haven't been good at making a profit in a while, but they aren't selling these at a loss, so that says something). So, if Handspring has a problem getting things produced at a decent price, I am hopeful that this merger should correct that.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  11. randyg's Avatar
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    #11  
    the only way to get a 300 for $100 is through HS AND signing a contract with Sprint:

    Sprint: As low as $99 after $300 service credit.

    T-Mobile: As low as $249 after mail-in rebate

    AT&T Wireless: As low as $249 with select data plans.

    You don't know for a FACT yet what the 600 is going to cost WITH activation from each carrier, so you can't compare that price yet.

    Go to Handspring.com and go through the motions of buying it online. Select that you ALREADY have a carrier plan. It will show you:

    $399 without service activation

    THAT is your comparison price without activation! I would be willing to bet that once the 600 has been out carriers will begin to offer less support for the 300.
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  12. #12  
    The price of a 300 is only $99 through HS and only if you get a new contract. The actual price is $399, which is only about $150 less than the 600 without a contract ($549). That is a 27% discount on the 300 when compared to the 600 right now. I know that you can get up to 20 to 25% discounts on cars right now with the huge cash back offers of $6000 plus which makes the comparison valid.

    Remember that the 300 was over $500 when released, and the newer smartphones currently on the market are in the $500+ range, so I think the 600 is on par with industry pricing standards.
  13.    #13  
    Come on people. I don't care how much the Treo 300 can be if I try real hard to find the highest price. If I'm a consumer, I'm going to spend a little bit of effort to find a good price, and I won't have to try hard in this case. Here in the US, most of us are used to having to sign contracts. If I have a choice of spending $100 with a one-year contract, or $400 without a contract, most average consumers are going to sign the contract. Some, the poor fools that they are , are even willing to save an extra $50 and sign a two-year contract.

    I, as a consumer, also don't care what the Treo 300 sold for when it was new any more than I care what the original VCRs cost when they were first invented. Now, I wouldn't buy one of those original VCRs today if they sold it to me for $10 because they were huge and of poor quality compared to modern devices. But my point here is that I don't think there's a 4-5x difference in features/quality when you compare a Treo 300 to a Treo 600.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #14  
    I can see Scott's point and everyone else's on this.

    A question to Scott to would be, how much would you pay for a separate mp3 player with your Treo 300? Is that a $100, $150. $200 for a stylish one? Add 10-20% to that price to realize the benefit of not having to carry an extra device.

    The camera is also included, but it's not very good, and probably worth only about $25-40 if you count that once again you don't have to carry around a crappy camera everywhere you go with your Treo 300 and the mp3 player you bought.

    Now let's assume you upgrade the OS. I don't know if Palm sells just an OS that you can flash on some of their devices, but maybe not. I'd say it's worth a good $15-20 in just OS + new blazer with javascript.

    Add a chip that is several times faster, that's another $50 or so I would think.

    Add the brighter screen at $25. Add the extra battery life at $40.

    I'm making up numbers here. I know it doesn't cost Handspring that to put it together, but that's a rough consumer price equivalents as far as I can tell.

    There's enough added that even if you take the $100 base price of a Treo 300, you quickly get up to the Treo 600 price. And at the end you probably get things like an SD slot, picture caller ID, second speaker for ringing, new SMS software, a smaller form factor, new directional pad with most software upgraded to use it, for free.

    The price gap between the two isn't so great all of a sudden. It's even smaller if you consider the premium paid for a new model vs. the discount given to clear the old model out of inventory.
  15. #15  
    Apart from the feature comparison, a very important factor for me to buy the 600 is the build quality. The 270 was just too unreliable to be a serious business phone. You don't want to know how often my phone would simply freeze in the middle of a call, run out of battery, hard reset and what else.

    My boss was at the point of telling me to go back to t68. Now that he has seen the Treo 600 he wants one himself as well.
  16. randyg's Avatar
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    #16  
    OK, the clouds are beginning to clear for me. Scott i see your point that you are looking for a good deal, not the latest phone. As you know, you will NEVER get the best deal from a new product launch. In the case of the Treo, i'm upgrading from a 180g, so this is a HUGE step for me. I like the fact that it runs OS 5, the 300 and the others are stuck where they are, no hope of upgrading the OS. I'm strictly looking for the best deal on that phone, the 600, not the best deal for any phone. Please forgive my corn-fusion. And to Mol, the forum nazi, forgive my topic straying.
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  17. #17  
    Beg your pardon?
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    Let's not confuse things by talking about "thousands of dollars." That's meaningless without the proper perspective. Thousands of dollars for a car is a small percentage in price difference. The Treo 300 can be had for 20-30% of the cost of the Treo 600. With no miles on it!

    Scott
    Don't forget to account for lifespan in that analogy. That new Treo 300 is about 15 years old in car years (new car can be expected to last roughly 15 years average, Treo 300 (any cell phone), 1-2 years, barring defects). So, assuming you went to a car lot that had a "brand new" 15 year old car...

    OK, my point is, that it isn't the greatest analogy, and your attempt to keep it in proper perspective, Scott, while well meaning, was not entirely successful.

    The Treo 300 is a fantastic bargain at $100-200. It is, IMHO, a better deal than the Treo 600, from a cost-per-feature standpoint, but the 600 is also a good deal. I feel that with the 300, you get roughly 80% of the functionality for 20% of the cost. But, God is in the details. If that missing 20% is important to you (it is to me), then you won't mind paying the extra money. It is akin to the law of diminishing returns.

    Back to cars -- A brand new Ford Escort for $1,000 is a great deal, but I'd still rather have the brand new $6,000 Mazda RX-8 (and if you find one, give me a call, I REALLY want it). Either will get me from point A to point B, and the Ford is a greater % discount. I'll leave you to figure out why I would spend the extra money.
  19.    #19  
    Originally posted by randyg
    OK, the clouds are beginning to clear for me. Scott i see your point that you are looking for a good deal, not the latest phone.
    Just to clarify, in one sense I was playing devil's advocate here. I, personally, don't mind paying more as an early adopter if a device meets my wants/needs. We're all looking at these devices and judging whether the features meet our needs and whether the price is justifiable to each of us, individually. In my case, it doesn't meet my wants, though it may meet many of my needs. Because it doesn't meet my wants, though, I don't find it a particularly good value. For me.

    But the main point I was addressing in this thread was not whether I, personally, find it to be worth the money over the Treo 300 (which I don't), or whether it was worth the money to most of the users of this forum (which it seems to). Rather, I was addressing whether this would be a success in the larger market out there. In that market, I simply believe that it will be perceived as offering too little for too much over something like the Treo 300. Of course, that's assuming that there is a large percentage of the market that would be interested in a thumbboard-equipped phone.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  20.    #20  
    Originally posted by guessed
    Back to cars -- A brand new Ford Escort for $1,000 is a great deal, but I'd still rather have the brand new $6,000 Mazda RX-8 (and if you find one, give me a call, I REALLY want it). Either will get me from point A to point B, and the Ford is a greater % discount. I'll leave you to figure out why I would spend the extra money.
    Well, we could quibble about this some more. Personally, I don't think this is a very good analogy, either. Remember that the Treo 300 for $100 is new, not used. And I don't think that the difference between a Treo 600 and 300 feature and design-wise is as dramatic as the difference between a Ford Escort and a Mazda RX-8. Instead of using pretend numbers, let's use real numbers. Is a $30,000 Mazda RX-8 worth 3x as much as a $10,000 (guessing here) Ford Matrix (is that what the Escort replacement is called?)? To a small percentage of the population, yes. The vast majority of people are buying cars closer to the Matrix's price than the RX-8's though.

    So, I think that proves the point I was intending to make. Again, I'm not saying that the Treo 600 isn't worth the extra amount to some people (like the people on TreoCentral), just that it won't be worth the extra money to most of the cell-phone buying public.

    Just to add to this, most of the cell-phone buying public probably won't be buying these Treo 300's, either. They make like the design of the Treo 600, and the price of the Treo 300, and end up going with something else altogether that has a Treo 300 price with a sexier design but no thumbboard.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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