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  1.    #1  
    Being a TREO 270 (and I love it) for more than a year, I so dissapointed compared to all you guys ....

    The reason is that TREO 600 will be useless ... at least for some time !!

    The whole story has :

    When I bought TREO 270 I had to buy the Greek Language Localisation software from a Russian Company (yes RUSSIAN !!) named PARAGON SOFTWARE (www.penreader.com) . This company was the first to develop a software in many languages in order to support a multilingual interface for PALM platform.

    But with TREO ... they messed it up !! The reason is :

    When you install their software and you try to send an SMS from the TREO default application then every character is treated as double byted !!! Even if you write in English or Greek !! This has a result to chop a normal SMS message into 2 or more messages, therefore to be charged twice or more from the provider !!

    I wrote to them and I got the following answer :

    Greek letters are sent in Unicode, and Unicode has 2 bytes for each letter, so you have 45 latters in SMS, but 90 bytes and 90 symbols on the indicator, it is not bug, it is the only way to send SMS in Greek.
    So we can not fix it.

    Now we do not have plans for Treo 600, so we did not make software for it.


    The same problem guys will be with other languages as well !!!

    HANDSPRING doesn't care about promoting their phone properly into other countries !!! So how does it expect to rase sales !!!

    For example the NOKIA P800 comes with a bi-lingual interface. And this is a normal case !! To say what ... " Sorry buy the phone but you can write SMS only in English !!! "

    This is a rediculous case !! I've contacted Handspring and they given me a number for my case ... so someone from the development will see it .... some time in the future !!

    I'm sorry to all of you, who might find this subject irrelevant to usual comments for the forthcoming TREO 600, but consider my desperation that even if I bought the device will be useless to me.

    Looking forward for your comments / suggestions

    Thanks ,

    Christopher Katris
    Rhodes, GREECE
    katris
  2. #2  
    That sucks...keep us informed on what soluitons Handspring offers, if any...
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
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  3. #3  
    Piloc (from the russian company) is supposed to work on OS 5.2. Why does it need a special version?

    http://www.penreader.com/PalmOS/PiLoc/Greek_PiLoc.html

    I know the company is quite good about keeping software up to date (I worked with them while programming on the Palm for multiple languages before). Also, the unicode problem is universal. Unicode characters are two bytes each. Do other phones send Greek SMS's that are 160 characters long?

    I know that limiting you to 1/2 the length in English sucks! But that's probably not the biggest problem for you.
  4. #4  
    The Treo 600 is also useless in Grease
  5. #5  
    It seems to me that it's a fact of life that Greece takes 2 bytes. It needs that many to represent the alphabet. I don't see how this is Treo specific or even Treo 600 specific. You mention having the Treo 270. Does SMS work for that?

    I'm trying to find the reason that the Treo 600 behaves different from the other SMS you have used.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by katris
    Being a TREO 270 (and I love it) for more than a year, I so dissapointed compared to all you guys ....

    The reason is that TREO 600 will be useless ... at least for some time !!
    That company is quite correct, katris. It's a matter of standards. Here are the gory details:

    with ASCII coding, which is what is used in most of computing except Java, and foreign language, every character you see is encoded into 1 byte.

    A byte is a set of 8 bits... 8 on-offs. This gives a possibility of 256 possible characters you can display on the screen. Unfortunately, this set of characters only includes english and accented letters. Why is it with 256 letters, they can only fit English? here's a brief breakdown off the top of my head:
    Capital letters: 26
    lower case letters: 26
    numbers: 10
    backspace, space bar, new line character etc.: about 10
    Mathematical symbols (square root signs, etc.): another 10..
    keyboard symbols (slashes, underscores): about 20...

    etc. etc. You can get a full list if you do a search on ASCII characters.

    I'm sorry greek wasn't included in the ASCII standard 20+ years ago when they started, but chinese wasn't either, so too bad for us. With the new Unicode standard, which uses 2 bytes (65536 possibilities), they added a lot more foreign language codes.

    Unfortunately, according to what you said, the entire SMS system is based on ASCII, and it's what we have to live with for now. You can't tell every single cell phone company in the world to change to a new SMS standard, even if you are the president of US.

    With the new P800, they might be using MMS, which is more a more advanced form of SMS.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by conflagrare
    Unfortunately, according to what you said, the entire SMS system is based on ASCII, and it's what we have to live with for now. You can't tell every single cell phone company in the world to change to a new SMS standard, even if you are the president of US.
    SMS uses the GSM alphabet.

    http://www.dreamfabric.com/sms/default_alphabet.html
  8. #8  
    im curious, what wireless carriers do they have in greece?
  9. #9  
    the beauty of PalmOS phones is that you can replace software with 3rd party. There is a bunch of SMS sending applications out there which you can try. I've seen some russian ones which work well with foreing characters.

    Since treo600 is PalmOS 5 it benefits from standard Telephony SMS API which is part of PalmOS 4+ (not the case with older Treos) and pretty much any SMS application using this API should work.
  10. #10  
    Even if SMS won't work at all with the phone, does that make it "useless"?

    Curious how you perceive it. I have actually never used SMS and doubt that I will with the Treo 600. No one I know uses SMS. Maybe a Europe vs. U.S. thing ...

    Being told that SMS won't work would be like being told the camera won't work ... small frown, quick shrug. Those aren't features I care about anyway.
  11. #11  
    Hi,

    IMHO SMS is really important tool and it is used not only by teenagers as a funny way of communication. I can show you an example based on my personal SMS usage pattern (please note that I'm 33 years old :-).

    First, it is very convenient person-to-person communication tool. Imagine you're at the meeting and you urgently need some information - send SMS to one of your colleagues and you have the info. And you don't disturb anybody. I believe you can name a lot of such cases.

    Second, this is very convenient way of getting some regular info pushed to your phone - from daily sales results to m-banking notifications of your bank transactions.

    Third, this is very efficient point-to-miltipoint communication tool. I have 14 people vorking in my Dept. If I need to deliver them short and simple message, I will not call them but send an SMS.

    Forth, you name it...

    As for support for non-English/French/German/Spanish/Italian languages (SMS is only one of the cases) - yes it is a problem until some company writes a localisation program. I've also sent an e-mail request to Paragon re PiLoc for Treo 600 and I hope if the number of Treo users requiring localisation will be high they might adapt existing PiLoc for PalmOS 5 (they have it for TT, TT2, Zire 71) to support Treo.

    Regards,

    Vitaliy
  12. #12  
    I am very interested in this thread as I'll be living here through the summer.

    I bought my unlocked Cingular phone in the US and have been using it so far with a prepaid GSM card from Vodafone; unfortunately - the prepaid cards don't allow me to use GPRS which I'd really like to try; I wanna play with chatter and snapper mail and see how wireless I can get.

    But even without GPRS or *any* network services currently enabled, I already love the Treo600 (even here in Greece).

    The onehanded operation is great, the upgrade in speed (from a Palm505) is significant. And the fact that I only have to carry one device instead of a Palm and a phone has lightened my load.

    I'd be very grateful if anyone on this forum has experiences with the Greek cell companies and could recommend one over the other. There are three companies to choose from:

    Vodafone
    Telestet
    OTE (national phone company)

    Which has the best phone coverage?
    Which has the best data coverage (availability and throughput)?
    Which has the best data plan?
    I suppose I'm also interested in the phone plans but if the Treo works as advertised I'll be doing less talking than data.

    One more item: I'm also interested in the Greek localization product from Piloc and when I couldn't find a trial download on their web site for the Treo600 I wrote them as follows:

    I'm interested in finding a way to have Greek letters on my Treo600 in addition to english. I want to keep the english but use Greek letters as well.
    Is your program compatible with the Treo600?
    They replied

    Thank you very much for your interest to our programs.
    We have version of PiLoc for Treo 600, which supports standard Palm
    fonts in Greek and onscreen keyboard, yes, you will be able to use
    English and Greek letters. The version is attached.
    I haven't yet tried it out but according to their reply it should work with the Treo600.

    Cheers!
  13. #13  
    That was a good one...

    Just because you can't localize it, it doesn't mean it's useless! You could still sms in Greeklish (Greek in English characters) like:

    "To thlefwno mia xara einai. Koita ti wraia pou epikoinwnoume me agglikous xarakthres"

  14. #14  
    I agree with the above post that recommends PiLoc. Uses the national characters, keyboard layout across the whole OS. You can install several language modules and switch between them. Comes with a pretty detailed electronic manual. I recently downloaded their Czech products (dictionary and localization) and am pretty pleased thus far.

    http://www.palm-dictionaries.com/PiLoc/index.html

    S
  15. #15  
    I use Versa Mail dor mail and Web Pro and they work OK with Greek (Piloc localization). Any suggestions of a 3rd part SMS application that works with non english characters ?
  16.    #16  
    I really don't understand HANDSPRING ... This bl.... RUSSIAN company is the one to be blamed for the situation ... Currently I bought the TREO 600 (and I love it) since I'm in love with the PALM OS , and I paid 900 + 15 for shipping (YES !!!) from the official European Handspring store www.treostore.com but the phone is useless (nearly) in GREEK

    I don't understand why this company, immediately releases the GREEK support software for all other phones and o.s , and always leaves .... the PALM platform to wait !!!!

    I think they subotaz the platform. For example the GREEK support for the P900 was ready before the release of the device ...

    Currently I can read Greek characters, can't write though with the aid of the keyboard , and can't send GREEK SMS

    Well, everybody here is amazed with the device, but .... the afraid to invest to a phone that costs 915 and can't write GREEK !!!

    OTreo I believe VODAFONE is the best company in GREECE.
    just mail me and I will send you the demo version of this bl... PILOC Localization program

    Christopher
    katris@noisis.gr
    katris
  17. #17  
    Yes, I am also not too happy becasue of lack of Cyrillic support in Treo. But I do not share your feelings regarding Paragon. It is their business decision whethter to support or not support specific devices. Their localization for T3 or amy other PalmOS 5 devices is perfect. Moreover, IMHO it is the only one in the market supporting Treo 600 at least you can read and write (except SMS and keyboard) in your language. And let's ask them for extension of this support but not to blame them for lack of it.
  18. #18  
    I bought from ebay a T600 and install the greek piloc.The company (Paragon) have already the information , at the readme file of the application, that it is not supporting greek keyboard.I sent e-mail regarding this issue to them and the answer was that "they are working on it". So for the moment I can receive SMS with greek characters(although their size is different,some characters are a litlle bit larger) but I can't sent Greek SMS , only greeklish.My carrier is Vodafone and when I received the device is running firmware 2.05 and software 1.08-INT.I experienced problems with getting wireless connection back when I was out of coverage.Thanks to this forum I learnt about the 3.04 upgrade and I managed to solve the problem.
  19.    #19  
    The version I've got can send Greek SMS. You have to press MENU+K to bring the virtual Greek Keyboard while on SMS application.

    Just contact me by mail : katris@noisis.gr to send you this version if you want.

    Regards,

    Christopher Katris
    katris

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