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  1. #81  
    Originally posted by whmurray

    In the modern world in which every toddler routinely uses a seatbelt, such instruction is neither necessary nor even useful. However the airlines have been doing it since it was. I am not sure whether they continue this absurdity simply because it is part of the boarding ritual, because they think that there may be someone on the flight that really does not know and cannot figure out how to operate a seatbelt, or because they are so rigid that they simply cannot adapt to new knowledge.

    Enough said? Or is there someone on this forum that needs instruction on the operation of his seatbelt.
    We are forever greatful for your sense of nobless oblige and your saving us savages from the horrors of reiterated recitation of airline safety presentations (note my sarcasm).

    It is culturally chauvinistic of anybody to assume that everybody else in the world knows how to use seat-belts and when to shut off cell phones.

    When the El Al (Israel's state-owned airline) airlifted thousands of Ethiopian Jews out of war-torn and famine-ridden Ethiopia some ten or so years ago, those Ethiopians had never even seen an airplane before, much less flown on one. Once airborne, some even tried to light a fire on the floor of the passenger cabin in order to prepare food as they would at their former homes. They had no knowledge of airline food service, much less seat belts, oxygen masks, and emergency evacuation.

    Nor do many flight attendants and FAA bureaucrats have degrees in electrical engineering. So cut some slack to people just doing their jobs.
    Day-Timer (1995) > Palm Pilot 5000 (1996) > Palm Vx (1999) > Treo 600 (2003) > Treo 650 (2006)

    Avoid MediocreSoft!!! - Give me PalmOS or give me death!
  2. #82  
    [i]
    I have never been told by a flight attendant to turn my Treo (180, 270, 300, or 600 - yes, I've had them all) once I showed that the radio was off.

    Just my 2 cents
    I generally use my 270 to the very last second before takeoff and may have cheated a little by hiding it in my lap. While I do not accept the rationale for doing so, I turn off the wireless mode and put it away during takeoff, arguably the most dangerous part of the flight, and when all electronic devices are barred. That is not the time to try and reason with a stressed flight attendant about the functionality of the device.

    I frequently use the PDA functions during flight and have never been challenged. The 600, since it looks more like a phone, may invite challenges that the 270/300 do not.

    I turn wireless mode on upon touchdown so that I can check for e-mail and for my connecting gates or baggage claim. (This is data that I will miss on my 600 because AA provides it only on a PQA which Palm 5.0 does not support.) Under the more relaxed rules for cell phones, I am rarely challenged on this either.

    In short guys, while I think that the airline position is ill-informed, not to say stupid, and while I think that this discussion has been fun and enlightening, it is really not a major infringement on the enjoyment of what is still little more than a nice toy.
    Last edited by whmurray; 12/14/2003 at 11:03 AM.
  3. #83  
    This happened to me on a flight last week. I was using my 600 to listen to tunes and fiddle with the PDA portion to pass the time. A stewardess walked by and asked, "is that thing a phone" to which I replied, "yes, but the phone part is not on". She sternly told me that phones of any kind must remain completely off during the flight.

    On my return flight, I just covered the antenna with my thumb while I was using it and all was well...

    Regards,
  4. #84  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    Kind of silly to ban the Treo and not a Blackberry. You might try to convince them that the antenna is actually for Wifi.
    Maybe they are afraid you have some remote control app on your Treo ?
  5. #85  
    I was on Continental Airlines recently, and I used my Treo 600 with the Wireless mode off during the flight. On the flight there, I was a little worried that someone would tell me I couldn't use it, so I covered the antenna. However, on the return flight, I didn't do anything special and nobody said anything. I was also in the aisle so I'm sure one of the attendents must have seen it.

    Maybe certain airlines are letting it be used on the flight?
  6. #86  
    I must say I read through this entire thread with quiet amusement. No one picked up on the obvious.

    Have any of you ever been on a commercial flight? Have you ever looked at the seat back in front of you and seen a telephone? You know that nifty little device that allows you to insert or swipe your credit card and make a call to someone FOR $6.00 A MINUTE!!! Please tell me someone has noticed it.

    The reason cell phones are not allowed to be used on the flight while in the air is so you have to use the phone the airline provides. This way they can gouge you a ridiculous amount. Cell phones do not interfere with the electronics on the plane. Common sense tells me that the FCC would not license cell carriers to use a frequency that was able to interfere with the airlines flight avioncs. That would be a recipe for disaster. If this were true there would be no cell phone use at airports or near them for that matter.

    It is a matter of simple economics. The airlines do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. Why do you think the food is so sh*tty. If the phones actually interfered with the plane do you really think they would be allowed on the plane. H E L L no they wouldn't. That is why bombs arent allowed on planes. They have been proven to interfere.

    I am utterly amazed that this is not obvious. What government or company would leave the safety of its passengers in the hands of some semi-observant flight attendants in the hope that they would spot a cell phone that was on, if there were any potential for that plane to go down?? NONE!! Besides it's not like the FA can see your phoner in your pocket and determine it's on or not. If there were any REAL danger they wouls sweep the cabin electronically for any phones and remove them.

    Cell phone use is allowed on Air Force One because there is no danger. It is not because of special shielding. Or maybe AFO has selective shielding that can be dialed in to protect the plane from certain things. (example: "hi mr boeing guy, we need a new plane for the prez. could you install the special cell phone protection tape inside the plane so we can all use our phones in flight and the plane won't crash? And make sure that tape doesn't interfere with any of the other special electronics we have that might use close to the same frequecies. Thanks)

    Cmon people, THINK!!!

    Woof
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  7. #87  
    Dunno if this has been posted yet or not, seems like no study has ever been done let alone proven cell phone interference. I find the whole thing amusing, its like hospitals who ban cellphones but allow the use of other devices such as pagers and other stuff with high RF output:

    Cell phone calls on jets may be OK'd by 2006
    By Dan Reed, USA TODAY
    Cell phone use aboard commercial planes in flight could be approved in about three years if a new study authorized by the Federal Aviation Administration shows that their transmissions don't threaten safety.
    The study by the Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics, a non-profit advisory panel to the FAA, should be completed by October 2005. The RTCA panel includes representatives from airlines, airplane makers and the electronics industry. The FAA typically takes six months to a year to act on RTCA recommendations.

    The study also will look into what effects other portable communication devices, such as modem-equipped laptops and handheld computers and wireless messaging devices, have on aircraft equipment.

    In the meantime, airlines are moving to expand the time that passengers can use cell phones aboard planes on the ground. Both American and Continental this month began allowing passengers to use cell phones longer before taking off, and to turn them back on very shortly after landing.

    cell phone use aboard aircraft is banned by a Federal Communications Commission rule that the FAA supports. FAA rules also prohibit use of most personal electronic devices. Items such as tape players, CD and DVD players, laptops, hand-held games and PDAs can be used during flight but not during takeoff or landing.

    There have been a handful of cases in which pilots have suspected that personal electronic devices were interfering with their instruments, but the effect has not been proven.

    FAA spokesman Les Dorr says rapid changes in technology might mean that such devices are safe now, or could be made safe to use.

    "It's been seven years since we last looked at this issue," Dorr says. "That's like dog years, given the advances in technology."

    Officials at the Air Transport Association, the industry's lobby, support cell phone use in flight, but only if it can be shown that energy emitted by phones won't compromise safety.

    Demand for in-flight use of cell phones is presumed to be strong. But use of seatback phones available on most planes has plummeted.

    American last year turned its seatback phones off and removed the transmission equipment — but not the phone handsets — figuring the fuel savings from the reduced weight were greater than its share of the seatback phone revenue.

    Currently, passengers can use their cell phones onboard planes only when the cabin door is open, or when allowed while rolling toward the gate. However, it is not unusual to spot travelers sneaking a cell call in flight.
  8. #88  
    http://www.privateline.com/Cellbasic...sairlines.html

    Perhaps we can use ours in the future..
    http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111568,00.asp

    470 - 806 MHz: 6 MHz per channel, wide FM audio
    470.000 - 512.000 {Broadcast TV, chs 14-20
    {Large Metro Public Safety (25 kHz steps - FM) |
    512.000 - 806.000 Broadcast TV, Chs 21-69

    806 - 896 MHz: FM @ 25 kHz steps (mobile 806-851, base 851-896)
    806.0125- 809.7375 General - conventional |
    809.7625- 810.9875 General - single channels |
    811.0125- 815.9875 General - trunked |
    816.0125- 820.9875 SMR - trunked |
    821.0125- 823.9875 Public Safety - trunked (12.5 kHz steps) |
    824.040 - 834.360 Cellular Telephone (30 kHz steps)
    834.390 - 835.620 Cellular Telephone (data) (30 kHz steps)
    835.650 - 848.970 Cellular Telephone (30 kHz steps)
    849.000 - 851.000 Aircraft Telephone (6 kHz steps - AM)
    851.0125- 854.7375 General - conventional |
    854.7625- 855.9875 General - single channels |
    856.0125- 860.9875 General - trunked |
    861.0125- 865.9875 SMR - trunked |
    866.0125- 868.9875 Public Safety - trunked (12.5 kHz steps) |
    869.040 - 879.360 Cellular Telephone (30 kHz steps)
    879.390 - 880.620 Cellular Telephone (data) (30 kHz steps)
    880.650 - 893.970 Cellular Telephone (30 kHz steps)
    894.000 - 896.000 Aircraft Telephone (6 kHz steps - AM)

    http://www.panix.com/~clay/scanning/frequencies.html
  9. #89  
    I fly frequently (with both a BlackBerry and a Treo 600) and have never been questioned about it. In fact, on my last flight from London, almost everyone in the section either had a BlackBerry or a Palm. Not one work was said.

    The really funny thing is our corporate pilots carry BlackBerrys and always leave them on; in fact, they like the fact that the older devices (on the Cingular Mobitex network) work in flight. So I figure if they are not worried about it, it must be completely bogus (RF interference).

    I agree with the earlier poster that the airlines, while concerned about safety, also want to see you their mobile services.
  10. #90  
    I'm not sure if the answer to why cell phones aren't allowed on planes has been given already, but I'll go ahead and post the reason.

    modern airplanes aren't going to be affected by your cell phone, the FCC is the one that actually has the beef with a person using a cell phone on a plane.

    cell phones work with cell phone towers, usually your phone will see a few towers and the towers will negotiate with eachother as to which has the better connection with your phone. You phone will then connect through that tower.

    now when you up in the air, your cell phone will be able to see literally over a hundred towers and the communications systems are not designed for this many towers to negotiate with eachother. . . and worse by moving several hundred miles per hour the strongest tower will change constantly.

    the FCC bans cell phones because of the problems that the towers would have in dealing with just a single phone, which could result in normal calls being dropped and systems crashing.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  11. #91  
    Originally posted by Woof
    I must say I read through this entire thread with quiet amusement. No one picked up on the obvious.

    Have any of you ever been on a commercial flight? Have you ever looked at the seat back in front of you and seen a telephone? You know that nifty little device that allows you to insert or swipe your credit card and make a call to someone FOR $6.00 A MINUTE!!! Please tell me someone has noticed it.

    The reason cell phones are not allowed to be used on the flight while in the air is so you have to use the phone the airline provides. This way they can gouge you a ridiculous amount. Cell phones do not interfere with the electronics on the plane. Common sense tells me that the FCC would not license cell carriers to use a frequency that was able to interfere with the airlines flight avioncs. That would be a recipe for disaster. If this were true there would be no cell phone use at airports or near them for that matter.

    It is a matter of simple economics. The airlines do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. Why do you think the food is so sh*tty. If the phones actually interfered with the plane do you really think they would be allowed on the plane. H E L L no they wouldn't. That is why bombs arent allowed on planes. They have been proven to interfere.

    I am utterly amazed that this is not obvious. What government or company would leave the safety of its passengers in the hands of some semi-observant flight attendants in the hope that they would spot a cell phone that was on, if there were any potential for that plane to go down?? NONE!! Besides it's not like the FA can see your phoner in your pocket and determine it's on or not. If there were any REAL danger they wouls sweep the cabin electronically for any phones and remove them.

    Cell phone use is allowed on Air Force One because there is no danger. It is not because of special shielding. Or maybe AFO has selective shielding that can be dialed in to protect the plane from certain things. (example: "hi mr boeing guy, we need a new plane for the prez. could you install the special cell phone protection tape inside the plane so we can all use our phones in flight and the plane won't crash? And make sure that tape doesn't interfere with any of the other special electronics we have that might use close to the same frequecies. Thanks)

    Cmon people, THINK!!!

    Woof
    Your dealing with flight attendants !

    No matter how right you are, nowdays you will be locked up and possibly charged with a felony for non-compliance when you reach the ground.
  12. #92  
    I flew from indy to tampa and tampa to atlanta and then back to indy. Each time I boarded the airplane I had treo in hand while listening to an ipod. I never turned off the ipod once, because I know the electronic device bs is exactly that. And as far as wireless mode, I turned it off as the plane was taking off or a little before cuz I knew I wouldnt get a signal. Cell phones and electronic devices do not interfere w/ the radio or anything like that and if they did they wouldnt allow you the ability to make the mistake and cause the plane to crash. Do you understand? Do you really think that if it was as real of an issue as they would like to say it is, that they would actually trust you to turn everything off? Its really just to get your attention about all the safety information. During that trip I had one attendant ask me to turn off the treo and I promptly took one headphone out of my ear and showed her "wireless mode off" and then hit the keyguard and politely waited for her to walk away so I could continue my game of bejeweled.
    All noobs click here
  13. #93  
    ... even though I explained the blinking green light :-)


    Thanks,
    Peter
  14. #94  
    Originally posted by phandel
    ... even though I explained the blinking green light :-)
    And I love the cryptic wording Southwest uses regarding the use of Treos (http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/electronics.html):

    Guidelines for permissible devices: any transmission using personal communications devices (including cell phones in GAME or AIRPLANE mode) is prohibited once the forward-entry door is closed. Flight Attendants will advise Customers when the doors are closed. All devices must be properly stowed while their operation is prohibited.
    So is only the transmission not allowed or the device itself? Last time I flew Southwest with my Treo I just made sure my light was off and that I was discrete with the antenna. I wasn't transmitting anything so I was in accordance with their posted policy as far as I was concerned.
  15. #95  
    On a recent flight I had my MuVo around my neck (tiny usbkey-like MP3 player) and the low battery light was blinking, a slow pulsing red led... The F/A asked me if it was a transmitter or beacon of some kind! Heh.

    I've had my Treo out recently on most flights lately (probably 10 in the four weeks) and I'm either playing Zap or using the stylus (both obvious NON-phone functions) and suprisingly, none of the F/A have asked me about it...

    any transmission using personal communications devices (including cell phones in GAME or AIRPLANE mode) is prohibited once the forward-entry door is closed.
    How can that be? That's exactly what those MODEs were created for!
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