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  1.    #1  
    A lot of people are talking about waiting for the 700 with bluetooth? Will there even be a 700? Palm is going out of business and fast...taking over handspring might help a bit but in the long run they're probably finished. I figured when it becomes palmOne that they'd discontinue the treo series...maybe maybe not....what do you think?
    Treo 300, Treo 600 - Sprint

    I dream in code and TCP/IP sequence numbers.
  2. #2  
    Originally posted by SprintTreo600
    A lot of people are talking about waiting for the 700 with bluetooth? Will there even be a 700? Palm is going out of business and fast...taking over handspring might help a bit but in the long run they're probably finished. I figured when it becomes palmOne that they'd discontinue the treo series...maybe maybe not....what do you think?
    We don't know if any of this is true (the Palm going out of business idea). SeldomVisitor has a much better handle on the financials than I ever will and he can probably answer your questions on that.

    But, if as I suspect, the Treo 600 sells well, especially in the enterprise market, we will see pa1mOne for a long time. With RIMM having some difficulties in the legal side of things, perhaps this is the Treo's big (an only) chance to make inroads here.

    Having had a BB and a Treo, I prefer the Treo. So, I hope it sticks around for awhile. By then, who knows, maybe Linux will be giving Windows a run for its money and they will leave pa1mOne alone.

    As to waiting ... WHY? We'll get the Treo 600, be pretty happy and wait for the next version. And guess what ... when the "new" Treo is released, there will be things on that device that we feel could be improved. No perfect device will ever exist. But if the Treo 600 meets your needs today ... buy it ... or more exactly ...

    If I only had a crystal ball ...[I]buy it when it comes out.
  3. #3  
    The TREO 600 is certainly the last product that we can say "came from Handspring".

    The merger stockholder vote is in the morning of October 28th with the merger, if approved, to take place immediately afterwards.

    57% or so of the stock of HAND is owned by Insiders so the outcome of the vote is pretty much moot as far as HAND is concerned. I don't know the situation with PALM since I've followed it much less. Same probably applies to them.

    ====

    Many people are scratching their heads about this merger. The virtual 10s/100s of millions of dollars HAND is costing PALM (albeit only with stock (*)) does not seem cost-effective even if PALM is reaping some sort of "carrier relationship" benefit.

    PALM itself has been in dire financial condition for a long time - they are not succeeding as a company. Though much is made of some sort of "synergy" by merging the two the fact is that HAND was losing money hand-over-fist (*), PALM is losing money hand-over-fist (*), and the two combined, though perhaps not losing money two-times-hand-over-fist ,will STILL be losing money hand-over-fist!

    All of the above and more make PALM's future prospects"poor" at best to many outside observers.

    So...

    Will PALM survive long enough so another TREO can come out?

    I think so!

    But barely and only maybe.

    I personally wouldn't BET on it, though (talk is cheap, a bet is real money!).

    =====

    (*)

    HAND is costing PALM nothing in reality - they are issuing shares and diluting existing shareholders positions as a result. That's funny finances.

    PALM recently had to issue 2+ million shares and sell them REAL cheap to outside investors with essentially no strings attached - free money for PALM, free money for the outside investors, another dilution hit to the existing shareholders. Those shares were issued to raise cash for "operating expeses" - a broad clue that PALM needed the bucks!
  4. #4  
    The T600 is it for now, but the next version in the T6xx series will be out in a year or so. Palm didn't buy HS just to go under they could do that on their own.

    With PalmSource going solo it will force PalmOne to be a lean mean selling machine and with that the Tungsten W will drop off the planet and the Treo will go the convgered and the Tungsten/Zires will be the PDA side. Its possible the Treo will be renamed to the Tungsten line but hey name recognition is key here and Palm really needs to keep it going.

    So it is doubtful that Palm will go under after all SONY can't run everything if so we would never get a decent PalmOS phone.
  5. #5  
    My feeling is that if the water is just about ready to come over the gunwhales, Sony might just buy pa1mOne.

    Which would be a good thing, I think. I'd rather have to deal with Sony than Microsoft. Two giants going at it ... don't you just love this country?
  6. #6  
    OH GAWD!! PALM IS DEAD! PALM IS DEAD! PALM IS DEAD! PALM IS DEAD!!!!

    I'm soooooooo tired of hearing this stupid prediciton every other week or so!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  7. #7  
    Originally posted by SprintTreo600
    A lot of people are talking about waiting for the 700 with bluetooth? Will there even be a 700? Palm is going out of business and fast...taking over handspring might help a bit but in the long run they're probably finished. I figured when it becomes palmOne that they'd discontinue the treo series...maybe maybe not....what do you think?
    I love people who are stupid sometimes... Palm is not in any significant fiscal peril at this juncture.

    Read the latest 10Q, it just came out. They beat the street consensus... again... and had double digit "same store NOI growth.

    I hate it when people spew their hyper-misinformed sordid pontifications out as if they were the gospel.... without the slightest regard for reality or any basis in fact.

    Stop being dumb.

    Good Night
  8. #8  
    Your right Palm isn't dead and isn't on life support either, but they are are close to brain dead when it comes to releasing the right mix of products at times.
  9. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #9  
    Everybody relax, this is the captain of ship, Titanic. In short time our crews will rearrange the deck chairs and music will go on as usual.


    PS. Ignore that big thump. It's just some ice. It was a false alarm.

  10. #10  
    I've heard the same thing about Apple's quick demise for over a decade but that hasn't happened yet. Even if PalmOne does keel over and die I seriously doubt that PalmSource will have the same problem. If things do get bad at PalmSource then they can always sell themselves to Sony.

    Even if PalmOne does end up under significant amounts of red ink they will sell off intelectual property and trademarks and the Treo will survive as someone else's brand since the Treo has brand recognition.
  11. #11  
    one thing is for sure seldomvisitor, aka.seldomright. doesn't know what the hell he or she is talking about, again. he or she is on par with purplex.

    spare us you amateur financial analysis. it's been obvious your both not in the business.

    your deductions are nothing short of idiotic
    ,and are a result of non analytical and superficial simplicity.

    as a cb trader, i suggest you both get into money markets, you'll do less harm to yourselves.

    what a pair.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 09/30/2003 at 11:53 PM.
  12. #12  
    Lol!

    There ya go, TreoCentral - do what you said you would do!

    Ha ha ha!
  13. #13  
    Let's not be short-sighted. We are all here (or at least the majority of us are here) because we like a product, not a company. Even if PalmOne doesn't last as the entity we know of, PalmOS probably will. If the Treo 600 does as well as many of us expect, we will have copycats. If PalmOne can't survive on its own, it will probably be absorbed by some giant company and its work continued. In any case, we will always be able to find our fix of a great convergence device, whether PalmOne lasts or not.
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #14  
    Originally posted by Luzerman
    I've heard the same thing about Apple's quick demise for over a decade but that hasn't happened yet. Even if PalmOne does keel over and die I seriously doubt that PalmSource will have the same problem. If things do get bad at PalmSource then they can always sell themselves to Sony.

    Even if PalmOne does end up under significant amounts of red ink they will sell off intelectual property and trademarks and the Treo will survive as someone else's brand since the Treo has brand recognition.
    First of all Apple was sitting on 6Billion worth of cold hard cash when thing was bad.

    Palm has...ehrrr... less than 300M cash. So pull out your calculator and how many quarter do you think Palm ink can bleed 100M.
  15. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #15  
    If the management team is the same. I'll give Palmone 3 years before getting absorb by some other company. Probably Sony will purchase PSRC on yard sale.

    Palm inc is a high burn rate company. It needs a minimum size of market share and margin to survive. Lower than certain point, it starts to make erratic business decisson, shuffling employees around, changing price, erratic product timing, playing the PRPRPR $games$, $etc$. $But$ $those$ $margin$ $and$ $market$ $share$ $are$ $all$ $trending$ $down$, $the$ $pressure$ $is$ $enormous$, $and$ $the$ $rival$ $are$ $not$ $some$ $noobs$, $but$ $the$ $biggest$ $name$ $in$ $the$ $industry$. $They$ $just$ $don$'$t$ $have$ $the$ $skill$ $to$ $compete$ $at$ $the$ $current$ $level$.

    Palm is just coasting on past momentum, from the days they control 80% of the market.
  16. #16  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    First of all Apple was sitting on 6Billion worth of cold hard cash when thing was bad.

    Palm has...ehrrr... less than 300M cash. So pull out your calculator and how many quarter do you think Palm ink can bleed 100M.
    6 b cash,? really. what date was that?

    i also have a few more simple questions for you, at that inflexion point, what were their short and long term liability amounts. the terms of those liabilities and the holders names if you don't mind? how about their cash flow, by quarter, over the 3 quarters previous? was it positive or negative and to what % was it as compared to their short term obligations over that same period? what were their international holdings and obligations, under what currency, and to what percent were they as compared to their total assets and obligations, respectively, usd only. try to give me a break down of their equity holdings at that time as well and the performance of them over the previous 3 years. i could also use a depreciation schedule for say their top 10 assets for the previous 3 years time and moving forward for the next 5 years. and finally what percentage of their assets was uncommitted inventory and to what extent (%) and (usd) was uncommitted inventory written down for the previous 3 years.

    i have no doubt that a couple of pros like seldomright and you will have the answers flowing very soon, work with me here. i think with a dozen or so more questions answered, we can begin to paint a true picture of apples health back then.

    i've got to get back to work, but chew on the above and i'll have more questions later if you don't mind.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 10/01/2003 at 10:00 AM.
  17. #17  
    If I were on the PALM board, I would buy HAND with a stock swap or with PALM shares (new issue) and acquire the HAND customer base and a new product (T600).

    Then I would push the Tungsten produts with a deal (trade-in or otherswise) and let the TREO die, replacing them with PALM's.

    After all HAND is PALM's biggest competitor. One move and emilinate your competitor, acquire their customers and announce to the world that PALM is the #1 everything in PDA.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my T300 and am waiting like everyone else fro the 600, but this thread was about PALM being alive or dead and it seem that the PALM move can't possibly hurt them financially (whatever their financial condition is at the moment).

    BTW, I worked for a company that had entire product lines sold off and it worked excatly the same way. Every one of the products that were sold off were killed in less than 18 months, some sooner only to enhance the buyers strategic positions by eliminating some competition.

    my .02
  18. #18  
    PALM, with a recent history of the diluting existing shareholders' holdings by issuing new stock, is doing EXACTLY that to "buy" Handspring.

    That is, PALM is printing paper to buy HAND at the expense of those who currently own PALM.

    The suggestion is that the purchase "price" is merited due to what HAND has to offer PALM. There are many, myself included (of course), who wonder why it wouldn't have been cheaper to just buy a few HAND people instead.

    (that is, is an ephemeral "carrier relationship" or two worth hundreds of millions of dollars of stock dilution?)
  19. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #19  
    Originally posted by JTREOB

    i've got to get back to work, but chew on the above and i'll have more questions later if you don't mind.
    okay, okay so 96 was a bad year for Apple.
    You are not one of thos Apple who works for Palm right now are you? yikes.
  20. #20  
    Palm bought HS specifically for the Treo line. They saw the 600, knew it would be hot, saw their current phone offerings for the joke that they were, and bought HS. They will not kill the Treo, but everyone at HS that wasn't working on the Treo will surely be gone after the acquistion since Palm has a good PDA market.

    I think the end game is that Palm wants Sony to purchase them specifically for the Treo, or to sell the Treo line to Sony at a premium. If Sony had the choice of purchasing Palm or HS, it would have got HS specifically for the Treo line. Now that Palm has the Treo line Sony will have to go through them, or wait for Palm to die, which they may not be able to afford to do since convergence is becoming more popular.

    No product is perfect, but from everything that I have read, the Treo 600 will be the best convergence device available at its release. I don't think that any of the current PPC solutions compare in size and ease of use. Will a MS solution come out in the near future that will be better? Maybe but I have not seen any designs, even the WANDA that impress me, as they still rely on T9, graffiti, text recoginition, etc. that I personally like. That is not to say that they won't do well, but they do not fit my wants/needs for a converged device.
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