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  1. #21  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    C'mon with wi-fi being all the rage, it looks like 3G cell data won't hit the US for a long time. (Sprint PCS Vision is NOT 3G even though that's what they claim.) Once Nov. 24th comes along, the cell providers are going hard pressed to find people to pay extra for data services. People want wi-fi.

    NO NICHES,
    Dan
    Dan, you are so wrong. On Nov24 I will pay my $80/month for data services with my vision card for my laptop. When I am out of town my vision works, but if I pop my WiFi card in my my laptop, it does not work. It's all about coverage. Any ***** will tell you that WiFi is prefered over 3G, but if there is not coverage, what is the point. Contrary to popular belief, not much business gets done in MickyDs at lunch or StarBucks. And if you have not noticed, the companies providing WiFi are charging money for access, and in my opinion, it is not cheap. I'll take the more universal (but also slower) 3G coverage of Vision than the Wifi access in a limited amount of places. WiFi at some airports is great, but I dont really want to sleep there to use it while I am out of town.
    Carl
  2. #22  
    Though we do not know and they have never told us, Handspring is probably selling them at whatever price they are selling them because they have to sell them at that price to make enough to recover costs, minimally.

    I doubt, for example, that the TREO 600 will be sold at a "loss leader" kind of price.

    Handspring is essentially broke - they cannot afford to make (that is, pay a second source to manufacture) a whole lot of TREO 600s in a single chunk. Because of the low production run the manufacturer is going to be charging a premium price to Handspring and Handspring will have to pass that along.

    IMHO, of course.

    (in an old 10Q or 10K Handspring had an expurgated contract with one of their radio module subcontractors - in there some prices were mentioned - $300-ish if I remember correctly. That's JUST for the radio module)
  3. njchris's Avatar
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    #23  
    Originally posted by pbryon
    [B
    I actually thought it was the other way around. Don't the cars in highest demand, coupled with buzz--like the New Beetle when it came out, the Mini when it first came out, H2, etc.--usually go for far more than MSRP? [/B]
    The MINI's are still going for MSRP (I know I just got one!)
  4.    #24  
    Oh, and who determines demand? The folks who are not willing to consider the market value and will buy blindly.

    And what recourse do I have why I can't get decent support from Sprint, or the countless hours wasted on the phone, returning phones, picking up the new phone. I can take the loss when its my time involved which equals money. But when it comes to negotiating, these companies are sacrosanct. I should charge Sprint by the hour for the time lost dealing their nonsense. People don't figure that in when they fall in love.

    What motivation will companies have to change and improve their service if their consumers blindly buy anything that's thrown at them with no chance for input.

    My point is that these companies are far from achieving a monopoly and very soon they'll pay for their indifference as the market really loosens up.

    Now that I remember, a couple of times I had Sprint lower my bill because I felt I put up with too much nonsense. More people should do this, and leverage their strength in negotiating a fair deal.

    If anyone should ever do business with me, you'll wind up crying in your beer. You will be absolutely miserable. Sheep need to be shorn.

    Dan
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich


    You wouldn't even ask for a reacharound?

    DH
    Dan, you dont get it. I am a customer, no one is forcing me to buy the new Treo. If I were mad about the pricing as you are, then I would choose not to buy it. I would not whine and complain and say that HS did not consult me, the exaulted techno user. I dont feel insulted or slighted by HS. I am sure HS did their market research when developing the 600. The fact that did did not contact you (nor me) personally does not mean they did not take the time to see what users wanted.

    HELLO SPRINT, HELLOW HANDSPRING, I WILL BUY THE TREO600 AT THE INITIAL PRICE YOU ASK. I WOULD LIKE A DISCOUNT FOR BEING A LOYAL USER, BUT IF YOU DONT GIVE ME ONE, I WILL STILL BUY ONE. PLEASE BE NICE TO DAN, CAUSE HE MAY NOT BUY A TREO600.

    Ok, I feel better.
    Carl
  6.    #26  
    PCS Vision is NOT 3G, you're buying the company hype, Carl. Do your homework.

    You seem to have a fixation on hamburgers, is it lunchtime yet?
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    #27  
    Yo Dan, just a heads up, Sprint is not the only provider out there!! I realize this may be a revelation to you. You should boycott (and that's such a whiney christian thing to do) with your wallet and take your business elsewhere.
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  8. #28  
    I would imagine that a "call to boycott" is roughly the same as a "call to petition" just sorta Yin and Yang, right?

    Let's all go tell the Verizon and TMobile petitioners to go elsewhere!
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by Scott R
    What I'd like to know is whether Handspring is selling this for $500 because they have to in order to turn a profit, because they really think they'll sell a lot at that price, or because they'd rather keep the market small and have less support issues to deal with.

    Scott
    Scott, i HOPE it is to turn a profit. That is the purpose of a business to turn a profit. A company's FIRST responsibility is to maximize profit and value to shareholders.
    Carl
  10. #30  
    Name one phone like the Treo 600 that sold for under $500 at initial offering. Of course the price will drop in the future because the components will cheaper, efficiencies gained in the manufacturing will be achieved, and the demand at the $500 price level will drop. Simple economics shows that price increases with high demand and low supply, and the price decreases with low demand and high supply. This is why the Treo 300 is cheap now because of low demand, high supply, and the 600 is about to be released which will almost eliminate the demand for the 300. Handspring will keep the price high enough to make money, but still make the exisinting 300s attractive to get rid of them.

    Samsung is still selling OS4 smartphones with Dragonball processors for $500+. The Hitachi G1000 PPC is $650 and it is huge in size.

    The carriers should be subsidizing the phones with rebates and locking customers in, not Handspring.
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    Oh, and who determines demand? The folks who are not willing to consider the market value and will buy blindly.

    Dan, you do not list a location, but it the US, the MARKET determines demand. Perhaps you should study macro economics. You might want to read Adam Smith's "The invisible hand" (of the market).
    Carl
  12.    #32  
    Originally posted by CarlGalgano

    Scott, i HOPE it is to turn a profit.
    Baaaa-baaaa
  13. randyg's Avatar
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    #33  
    Dan does your mommy know you're using her computer?
    a dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    2. No contract. This is the future, might as welll extend this courtesy to the loyal customers of HS of Sprint.
    The future? With number portability, carriers will be working even harder to try and get their customers in as long of a contract as possible. And hey, why all the madness when we don't even know what the price is going to be yet? At least hold your nonsense until then.
  15. #35  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    PCS Vision is NOT 3G, you're buying the company hype, Carl. Do your homework.

    You seem to have a fixation on hamburgers, is it lunchtime yet?
    Well, Dan, perhaps you should explain to the uneducated what 3G is? I really dont care what Spint CALLS it, after all it is just a name. The FACT is TODAY, Sprint PCS has the largest and fastest data network. Call it what you want, it is better than ahything else out there.
    Carl
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    #36  
    Originally posted by dan_herzlich
    If anyone should ever do business with me, you'll wind up crying in your beer. You will be absolutely miserable. Sheep need to be shorn.

    Dan
    Gee... so you want Handspring and Sprint to be all lovey-dovey and accomadating, but you will make people cry if they do business with you?

    You started off this thread by practically insulting people who want the Treo 600. Then you want their help.

    Great way to go about it.

    Bottom line, just because *YOU* think something is too much or should be different, doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE has to think the same way. Just because they don't think like *YOU*, doesn't mean they are all wrong and are sheep.
  17. #37  
    You know Dan, you really rally me to your cause. Keep arguing with the people your trying to win over. Use such wonderful analogies as "reach arounds" I'm sure we'll all flock to your cause! LOL! In fact, why don't you ask PurpleX how that worked out for her.
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by CarlGalgano

    Dan, you are so wrong. On Nov24 I will pay my $80/month for data services with my vision card for my laptop. When I am out of town my vision works, but if I pop my WiFi card in my my laptop, it does not work. It's all about coverage. Any ***** will tell you that WiFi is prefered over 3G, but if there is not coverage, what is the point. Contrary to popular belief, not much business gets done in MickyDs at lunch or StarBucks. And if you have not noticed, the companies providing WiFi are charging money for access, and in my opinion, it is not cheap. I'll take the more universal (but also slower) 3G coverage of Vision than the Wifi access in a limited amount of places. WiFi at some airports is great, but I dont really want to sleep there to use it while I am out of town.
    Carl hit the nail on the head. Sprint's data service works in almost all Sprint service areas I've visited. Sometimes not much better than dial-up; sometimes as good as ISDN. Either way, no tether, no specialty shops (just how many Big Macs or lattes can one body consume); one service provider (try to use your WiFi at the airport, Starbucks and McD's in the same city - two out of three will be different providers). Some day true 3G (or better) will surface, and we'll all flock to that next. For now, Sprint 2.5G is a good bet (T-Mobile is cheaper, but much slower and less coverage).
  19. #39  
    By the way, my apologies for assisting in feeding the trolls (are Dan & purpleX related?)
  20.    #40  
    Sprint's 1xrtt cdma 2000 is best characterized as 2.5G. I've copied a definition and have posted it below for those smart enough to buy a treo 600 but not quite capable of a google search, or even worse shame about their own ignorance, Carl. You want fries wid dat?

    3G is a short term for third-generation wireless, and refers to near-future developments in personal and business wireless technology, especially mobile communications. This phase is expected to reach maturity between the years 2003 and 2005.

    The third generation, as its name suggests, follows the first generation (1G) and second generation (2G) in wireless communications. The 1G period began in the late 1970s and lasted through the 1980s. These systems featured the first true mobile phone systems, known at first as "cellular mobile radio telephone." These networks used analog voice signaling, and were little more sophisticated than repeater networks used by amateur radio operators. The 2G phase began in the 1990s, and much of this technology is still in use. The 2G cell phone features digital voice encoding. Examples include CDMA, TDMA, and GSM. Since its inception, 2G technology has steadily improved, with increased bandwidth, packet routing, and the introduction of multimedia. The present state of mobile wireless communications is often called 2.5G.

    Ultimately, 3G is expected to include capabilities and features such as:

    Enhanced multimedia (voice, data, video, and remote control)

    Usability on all popular modes (cellular telephone, e-mail, paging, fax, videoconferencing, and Web browsing)

    Broad bandwidth and high speed (upwards of 2 Mbps)

    Routing flexibility (repeater, satellite, LAN)

    Operation at approximately 2 GHz transmit and receive frequencies

    Roaming capability throughout Europe, Japan, and North America
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