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  1.    #1  
    Hi.

    Is is possible to have Bluetooth in an expansion slot, so that you could get the Treo 600 to function with Bluetooth?

    Can't believe they didn't put it in... but I will probably still have to buy it...

    JT
  2. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #2  
    There are 2 BT SD out there, but there is no driver for POS 5.0.
  3. #3  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    There are 2 BT SD out there, but there is no driver for POS 5.0.
    Yet. However it is more than likely one will be forthcomming to take advantage of Palm's own bluetooth SD card:

    http://www.palmone.com/us/products/a...rds/bluetooth/
  4. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #4  
    'more than likely'? The OS 5.0 doens't have a driver layers, each driver has to be individually tailored to each device.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    'more than likely'? The OS 5.0 doens't have a driver layers, each driver has to be individually tailored to each device.
    Right. Through software.
  6. #6  
    I know that there are BT headsets out there that work with/for phones, but would they also work for listening to MP3's? what are the best headsets on the market?
  7. #7  
    Talked to Palm yesterday about this issue; they have no plans to create a palm os 5 driver. They said they sell a bluetooth handheld, and if you want it buy it. I than asked if they are commited to bt, and they were like yes, and I asked if we will see it in mroe devices, since i can't for example get a bluetooth palm with built in camera (zire 71) and they were like most likely. However, no luck for devices like the Treo 600, and they know nobody with any plans to make a Palm OS 5 bt card.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  8. #8  
    Originally posted by miradu
    However, no luck for devices like the Treo 600, and they know nobody with any plans to make a Palm OS 5 bt card.
    What? That's not true. It's widely been reported that Hagiwara has been developing a OS 5.x compatible BT SDIO card!
    _________________
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  9. #9  
    Good point, forgot about that one. However Palm's PRPRPR $lady$ ($Sonja$ $something$) $didn$'$t$ $know$ $that$, $and$ $she$ $claimed$ $to$ $have$ $asked$ $around$ $the$ $company$ $before$ $our$ $phone$ $call$. *$sigh$*, $Sometimes$ $PR$ $people$ $are$ $really$ $annoying$.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  10. #10  
    SD Bluetooth card
    Hagiwara brand SD Bluetooth card complies with SD IO standard and Bluetooth Ver 1.1. It enables to connect with the devices which comply with Bluetooth standard.
    <http://www.hscjpn.co.jp/hscjpn/english/img/e_SDB1.gif>

    * All specifications are subject to change without prior notice.

    About Hagiwara Sys-Com

    Hagiwara Sys-Com designs, manufactures and markets highly innovative and versatile semiconductor application products for diverse market ranging from digital consumer to industrial/embedded computing.

    Its product line includes Bluetooth, Wireless LAN, WAN solutions based on MSIO, SDIO and USB technology and a full line of flash memory related products comprised of SD Memory card, Memory Stick, CompactFlashTM SmartMediaTM Flash ATA and MMC cards. Hagiwara
    is also known for its high quality and reliability of their flash data storage products for industrial application.

    Hagiwara Sys-Com is a privately held company with 170 employees and maintains facilities in Japan (Nagoya), the United States (Irvine, CA) and Taiwan (Taipei).
    More information is available at http://www.hsc-us.com
    Thanks,
    intysf@cs.com
    TreoCentral.com
    Product Page Editor
  11. #11  
    It's still vaporware though.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #12  
    Originally posted by gfunkmagic


    What? That's not true. It's widely been reported that Hagiwara has been developing a OS 5.x compatible BT SDIO card!
    Hagiwara has to write a driver for each single model since they all have different mobo's. I have to see how Hagiwara pulls this off if they ever write driver for their SD cards.

    Device driver is more convoluted than you think. That's what al the hoopla about SD NOW! is all about.
  13. #13  
    Too bad SD NOW! Doesn't support Palm OS. The one thing that Handspring did so amazingly well with the Visor was that springboards actually auto installed. I have yet to see a SD card that can do that. I mean, why shouldn't they work on both PPC and Palm OS? It's just a driver issue. And, why can they not put a little bit of flash on it, so that it can auto install it's own drivers? It might raise the cost, but it makes things so much easier!
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #14  
    Auto instal won't work in ultra small package like SD card. The driver memory demand will eat up space and cost too much to built. PPC driver would be several hundred kb, same as Palm. Before you know it, it's half a meg and add 20 bucks to the card cost.
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    Or deduce it yourself: TC uses Xscale, TT2 uses 1510, and the rest 310, all of them has different I/O architecture.
    Yes but the DAL should take care of that. The whole point of why Palm created the Palm OS Ready Program for OS 5.x was to let processor manufacturers to create a DAL for their own processors. This translation layer between the hardware and the OS was intended to remove any incompatibilities between, say, Intel and Motorola chips. Lisencees are then supposed to use rely on HAL which lets the OS know how to use the hardware components like the processor, screen, SD slots, etc. Thus, I seriously doubt PalmOS 5.x has the same driver mess that PPC's do and why PalmOS doesn't require a program similar to SD NOW!. Anyway , I did email Hagiwara but it seems they don't do a decent job of responding to queries. Legacy support for OS 4 is another matter b/c of dradonball.
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  16. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #16  
    DAL: device abstraction Layer.

    SDIO is yet another device beyond the CPU which the OS need to handle, usually it's done via device driver layer. There is an entire chapter in MS PPC manual for this.

    Logically, since Palm inc is the only SD user in POS world (who count HS anyway), They would have a uniform OS system architecture so third party can write driver quickly. But system software isn't exactly picnic.

    Even microsoft will only start integrating standard support for SDIO on next CE release, due to all the myriad controlers out there.

    But hey, like I say, I believe SDIO driver for 5.0 WiFi/BT when I see it.

    more
    http://www.bsquare.com/products/sdionow/faq.asp
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    DAL: device abstraction Layer.

    SDIO is yet another device beyond the CPU which the OS need to handle, usually it's done via device driver layer. There is an entire chapter in MS PPC manual for this.

    Logically, since Palm inc is the only SD user in POS world (who count HS anyway), They would have a uniform OS system architecture so third party can write driver quickly. But system software isn't exactly picnic.

    Even microsoft will only start integrating standard support for SDIO on next CE release, due to all the myriad controlers out there.

    But hey, like I say, I believe SDIO driver for 5.0 WiFi/BT when I see it.

    more
    http://www.bsquare.com/products/sdionow/faq.asp
    AHH! So you admit your earlier statement that "OS 5.0 doens't have a driver layers" is a bunch of FUD! Btw, you're confused. DAL deals with the proc. A SDIO peripheral would deal with the HAL. If what you say were true then all SDIO peripherals like cameras GPS etc would only work on Palm branded handhelds and only one specific processors which is evidently and totally false as I explained earlier. Yet, even you admit M$ hasn't integrated a unified SDIO architecture for PPC devices! Classic ska spin and deception...

    Thus, back to original topic: the Hagiwara BT SD card will work via OS 5.x handhelds including the Treo600...
    _________________
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  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #18  
    All modern OS has abstraction layer, otherwise it won't be portable. The question for POS is what is the extent of support for SDIO in abstraction layer. POS doesn't have the same driver architecture as PPC.

    Here we go, CE block diagram. (see OAL, and driver development section)
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...tWindowsCE.asp


    Simplify POS block diagram. (see page 10 for block diagram, No detail on where driver should be)
    http://www.palmos-japan.com/palmsour...s-2002/100.pdf

    Slot driver (no mention how it should function for complex peripheral such as SDIO. ie, there is no uniform system call such as that in SDIO now that developer can use. If it does it would simplify matter a gret deal and you would have that SD BT driver ported from 4.1 to 5.0 by now.)
    http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/do...s.html#1000953
  19. #19  
    I wonder how iGolf manages to do it so easily. Clearly, it must be possibly to develope a SDIO Bluetooth card if you can squeeze a GPS receiver into one that is compatable with all the various Windows and Palm Operating Systems.

    http://www.bargainpda.com/default.as...wComments=true
  20. #20  
    Originally posted by sir_mycroft
    Clearly, it must be possibly to develope a SDIO Bluetooth card if you can squeeze a GPS receiver into one that is compatable with all the various Windows and Palm Operating Systems.

    http://www.bargainpda.com/default.as...wComments=true
    Of course it is! It just that Purple here got caught with a bold face LIE trying to confuse people into thinking there was no possiblity for a BT SD card due to PalmOs compatibilty issues. This is actually quite far from the TRUTH! The fact of the matter is that it is the PPC platform that is having difficulties with a uniform SDIO framework as evidenced by the SD NOW! effort, not PalmOS. (btw...is purple starting to receive JakeE treatment as well around here?)
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