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  1. #21  
    Nobody is more excited about this phone than I am (except maybe PurpleX...NOT!)

    But HS/Sprint needs to keep this priced much closer to $400 than $500. The market is indeed maturing, and while device convergence is great, even some of the tried-and-true geeks here will be inclined to hold onto their separate devices which already do the job, rather than tack another $500-$600 device on their credit card.

    At the high end, it's close to the price of a laptop (and yes I know the whole laptop/handheld argument, they're not the same), but even for those with unlimited funds there are choices to make.

    C'mon Sprint subsidy!!!! I can't wait 'til this phone comes out. And I never thought I'd say this, but thank you Sprint for totally screwing up the Kyocera 7135 situation so I couldn't get one. Let's hope you get this right!
  2. #22  
    Unlike Mossberg's gushing review of the TREO 180 that caused an immediate pop up in Handspring's stock price of 30+%:

    -- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HAND...=29&f=2001&g=d

    the current gushing review hasn't caused anything - the stock movement currently is well within the noise level of normal movement:

    -- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ecn?s=HAND

    Once stung, twice shy?

    (I think the TREO 600 is cool but unsellable - I am ONLY interested in the latter)
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by silverado


    - The price is very different. I don't believe the $500-$550 figure. The European prices were reported to be less and the unlocked GSM version is reported to be < $500. It was $700 for the 270. Indications point to HS learning the lesson about price.


    So to equate the two situations only because Walt loved both is way too simplistic.
    Tend to agree. Actually I paid HS $750- for my 270. Carrier support sucked.

    Timing is different. Treo 270 was push; I think that the 600 is pull. The market is more mature; two years from now most phones will be smart.
  4. #24  
    Originally posted by whmurray


    Tend to agree. Actually I paid HS $750- for my 270. Carrier support sucked.

    Timing is different. Treo 270 was push; I think that the 600 is pull. The market is more mature; two years from now most phones will be smart.
    One more thing. Initial list price is not THE price. Everyone here understands that. A few of us will pay that price because we want early. Those who are interested in low-price will simply wait for late.
  5. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #25  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor

    (I think the TREO 600 is cool but unsellable -
    It's neither cool nor sellable. Vertu is cool. SO Z600 is sellable. Treo 600 is no Vertu or SO Z600.
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Unlike Mossberg's gushing review of the TREO 180 that caused an immediate pop up in Handspring's stock price of 30+%:

    -- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=HAND...=29&f=2001&g=d

    the current gushing review hasn't caused anything - the stock movement currently is well within the noise level of normal movement:

    -- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ecn?s=HAND

    Once stung, twice shy?

    (I think the TREO 600 is cool but unsellable - I am ONLY interested in the latter)
    For someone who is interested in the market you seem to be doing very limited analysis. The Treo 180 review almost came out of nowhere. It wasn't preceded by the intense media activity that has been accompanying the 600. The market knows of the potential of the 600 and its significance and it's already factored into the stock price.

    HAND's price is virtually fixed because of the stated price in the merger agreement, so it can't see too much change. PALM+HAND would be a better price to watch. Also, the Treo 600 is a much smaller piece of the new company than it is of just HAND.

    Finally, the fact that there was a pop in the stock price after the 180 review says that the stock market is a bad predictor of upcoming sales
  7. #27  
    Please note that my original "well within the noise level" comment was made at a certain point in time - right now HAND's price is increasing on fairly good-for-HAND volume.
  8. #28  
    Been lurking on these forums for a while and I am eagerly awaiting the Treo 600. I for one think that the Treo 600 will be one of the most successful smartphones that has come out for multiple reasons including:

    - GSM and CDMA available at same time so any carrier will be able to use them. Most major carriers are planning to sell them. The ones that aren't are probably waiting to see if it sells well for the others.

    - Best Smartphone packaging that has a keyboard. Only PPC now that I know of like it is the Hitachi G1000 which is way to large to be considered a phone, even though it can do some cool things.

    - The Government is using a lot of Blackberry's, partially because of 9/11, and many are wanting integrated phone devices that can do much of the same to minimize what they need. The Blackberry phones are more Blackberry than phone. Palm and the carriers should start marketing to the feds and develop a Blackberry e-mail (just need some server software that can talk to e-mail server) functionallity for the 600.

    Microsoft may be able to make movement in this market if they stop trying to cram the entire Windows OS for the desktop into a phone, which puts high demands on the hardware, increasing the size of the platform. Microsoft has always been the most inefficient, non-secure OS on any platform and until they change I would never buy a phone running their OS. I wouldn't mind having a PPC PDA as they seem OK, but having my phone crash on me or attacked by a virus through the plethora of security holes in their products just doesn't seem cool. But Microsoft is forcing everyone to improve their products and is forcing the adoption of color screens so I welcome their efforts.

    The new Samsung I-500 and Kyocera look OK, but the treo has them beat, at least for me due to Palm OS 5 and the keyboard. T9 input is a pain in the *** and I am not a huge grafitti fan.
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    From several top problems that prevent treo becoming mainstream HS only address one of them, the form factor. From the review it is clear it has not tackle price, battery, and usability. It is still a PDA trying hard to be a phone, which is so far a guarantee niche market.

    It's not clear yet, what is the shape of perfect smartphone, but shrunken PDA is a guarantee loser. It combines the worst of two world, a compromised PDA and a mediocre phone. The casualty list is getting longer: nokia 9000, XDA, p800, treo 180/270. And probably we can add XDAII, treo 600 and p810.

    I don't think 600 design is radical enough to break the mainstream acceptance. A test of a good handheld phone is easy. If you hand the device to a random girl in coffe shop, and she would say...eww... I can't make a phone call with it. Then it's a guarantee market failure by phone market standard. It is important for a handphone to 'look like' a phone, but at the same time interesting enough to be a personal attire. Nokia nails this. The problem now is of course how to add all those PDA functionality without turning the phone into a monstrosity or compromising the PDA functionality to cute gimmick.

    Treo 600 fails. It is not an attractive phone for the mass, nor has big enough spec to compete with other high end PDAs. Consequently the market will be very limited.
    Purple X:

    You are drawing a false analogy.

    You said “A test of a good handheld phone is easy. If you hand the device to a random girl in coffee shop, and she would say...eww... I can't make a phone call with it. Then it's a guarantee market failure by phone market standard.”

    That’s like saying if you approached the same girl from your coffee shop scenario with a computer that was running XP and she was only used to Windows 98 she would not be able or interested to figure out how to use XP because it looked different.

    I think the Treo 600 will have the opposite effect. I think women will find it intriguing especially when they realize they can type SMS messages, Email, and send their friends photos that they take with the phone via MMS. I bought my assistant a Treo 300 a year ago and she absolutely loves it.

    Purple X, I think you are underestimating your fellow man, but what else is new?

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #30  
    >>>Microsoft may be able to make movement in this market if they stop trying to cram the entire Windows OS for the desktop into a phone, which puts high demands on the hardware, increasing the size of the platform.

    MS smartphone such as SPV and mpx200 are cheaper and smaller than treo 600. PPC PE on the other hand are bigger, but they are full size PDA.
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    >>>Microsoft may be able to make movement in this market if they stop trying to cram the entire Windows OS for the desktop into a phone, which puts high demands on the hardware, increasing the size of the platform.

    MS smartphone such as SPV and mpx200 are cheaper and smaller than treo 600. PPC PE on the other hand are bigger, but they are full size PDA.
    That was actually Microsoft’s greatest blunder in the handheld computing arena: Making the choice to develop two different platforms simultaneously. The decided to try and make the PPC and Smart phone. They should have taken a “less is more” approach. Instead they ended up more or less with, “more is less.”

    The Treo 600 has the perfect balance, except it desperately needs a 320x320 screen and Blue tooth. Once it has those features it will be much better.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #32  
    From initial SPV sale, smartphone has more traction than treo. It is possible that phone market is reasonably distinct that a shrunken PDA approach won't work. We'll have to see the marketshare number in Q2, that's when most people think we'll know for sure if MS smartphone is a bad bet or pretty good idea. So far it seems to gain traction. It's rather impressive actually considering how clueless Microsoft was about this market two years ago.

    ----
    integrating BT into treo will take them at least a good half year, too late to do them any good. Plus BT application in Palm is so weak, I actually think it doesn't make any difference to treo.
  13. #33  
    While Mossberg's love for the Treo is no surprise, what did surprise me was:

    (1) An included MP3 player. My understanding is that the T600 would not play MP3 out of the box, but would require a 3rd-party app to take advantage of the unit's MP3 support.

    (2) The Blackberry comparisons. No matter how much I read on this topic, I can't get seem to get a straight answer to the question of whether or not the T600 does Blackberry-esque live email. The review implies that it's a better Blackberry than the Blackberry.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see, as always.
  14. #34  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    Treo 600 fails. It is not an attractive phone for the mass, nor has big enough spec to compete with other high end PDAs. Consequently the market will be very limited.
    purpleX, I too think you are underestimating the potential of the 600, and the importance of elegant industrial design and it's effect on human beings. The Treo 600 will be a success for a number of reasons including the Carrier factor, the extreme lengths to which Handspring has gone to make sure that this thing "just FEELS RIGHT", and to the elegant design + THE KEYBOARD!!! I for one will NEVER try to input a text message using numeric keys...how ridiculous is THAT????

    I just heard from a co-worker (who is MR. MICROSOFT) and he said that the Treo 600 is hands down the best looking and well-designed Smartphone he's ever seen (form factor + keyboard blew him away).

    Maybe the mediocrity of MS in the past has been successful for the masses, but consumers now are better informed, and much pickier and less apt to accept CR*P. We just may have gotten to the point where "doing it RIGHT" will result in DRAMATIC financial success. One can only hope...

    In the meantime, "I pledge allegiance to the Treo 600 and to the republic for which it stands.."

    While dissent is healthy purpleX, this is a positive forum, and I can't help but wonder why you waste your time here...
  15. #35  
    If only the Treo had a removable battery, I could jump on the bandwagon. I just do not see why Hanspring failed to include one, especially with all the battery problems I and others have had with the previous versions.

    I am not simply talking about the weak talk and standby time of the previous Treo either, but the inevitable degradation of the battery cell. With a removable battery, this is not an issue ever. Without one, the whole unit has to be replaced. This is my single biggest complaint with the 600.

    As it stands, I'll still have to wait (well, I was going to wait untill after Novemere anyway) and see what the SGH-i500 has to offer.
  16. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #36  
    >>>you are underestimating the potential of the 600, and the importance of elegant industrial design and it's effect on human beings.

    the treo line has been around for almost 2 years. If it has potential, it should have shown it way back when...

    If you are thinking the potential of ARM CPU in treo as a handheld, you only need to see how ARM affect Palm handhelds. (it doesn't do jack, beside being slightly spiffier handheld. The excitement comes from screen, wireless, multimedia. Everything else is just the same)

    So, I am not sure what potential are you referring here. The only obvious potential is now you can put treo in tighter jeans pocket than before. It's a slightly shrunken old treo with smaller package plus camera, with new price tag of course.

    ...so much for the potential.
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    [B
    the treo line has been around for almost 2 years. If it has potential, it should have shown it way back when...

    [/B]
    The Treo 600 is a whole new ballgame baby! Time will tell I guess. In the meanwhile, if you can't see any differences between the Treo 600 and the rest of the pack, then I guess you just don't GET IT, and never will.

    It's kind of like you saying that there is no difference between the Mona Lisa and a self-portrait by my 8 year old neice...since they are both pictures of a female
  18. #38  
    Purple.....

    How the heck did you become such a bitter, angry, miserable, unhappy, petty, negative, and otherwise unpleasant person?

    Why do you continue to spent so much of your time here.... there must be something else you can do with yourself and your precious PPC.

    I think that you need a hug or something.

    Hey why dont we all pitch in to buy you an ice cream cone?
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70
    While Mossberg's love for the Treo is no surprise, what did surprise me was:

    (1) An included MP3 player. My understanding is that the T600 would not play MP3 out of the box, but would require a 3rd-party app to take advantage of the unit's MP3 support.

    (2) The Blackberry comparisons. No matter how much I read on this topic, I can't get seem to get a straight answer to the question of whether or not the T600 does Blackberry-esque live email. The review implies that it's a better Blackberry than the Blackberry.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see, as always.
    1. maybe the carrier for the phone he tested will include mp3 software?

    2. he uses snapper and mentioned the included mail app, both of which are pull.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  20. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #40  
    Originally posted by fred.illies


    The Treo 600 is a whole new ballgame baby! Time will tell I guess. In the meanwhile, if you can't see any differences between the Treo 600 and the rest of the pack, then I guess you just don't GET IT, and never will.

    or you could be overly optimistic and gushy
    New ballgame my foot, what's so new with treo600? mention the big 5 if you can. Mention 5 big incredible things that treo 600 will do to you in term of apps/feature. I bet they all be pretty much say "I wanna new gadget, who care if it doesn't do anything that new"
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