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  1.    #1  
    I hope I can ask this question so it can be understood.

    It is a well established fact that the Treo300 & Treo600 do not support the analog AMPS 800 mHz frequency. That much I understand.

    As I understand it, there are 2 bands used for CDMA digital service, one at 1900mHz and the other at 800mHz. As far as I know, Sprint uses the 1900 PCS band exclusivly, verizon supports both, but has a majority of it's service in the 800 mHz band. I assume there are other carriers, some maybe very small, local or regional players.

    I have read that Sprint phones will roam on analog or digital, but I know the Treo will only do digital.

    So here are my questions:
    1. Can the Treo300 and Treo600 use both 800 and 1900 CDMA, or is it strictly at 1900 mHz phone?
    2. Is there an advantage to using either band. I am a neophyte when it comes to RF, but I do understand that the length of the wave length of the radio signal is differnt between the two bands, is one more advantageous? I have read, but have not verified that Sprint's indoor coverage is not as good as Verizons because of the use of 1900 mHz.
    3. Has anyone EVERY roamed digitally on their Treo? I have no idea how I would know if it was roaming. Unlike other phones I have had, there is no banner that indicates you are on Sprint, except when you first establish connection to the network.
    4. Will Sprint be building out their network in more rural (non interstate) portions of the country? or will they rely on establishing digital roaming agreements for this coverage, or will they just not care. Pretty much anywhere you go in the country these days has at least analog service, will we have the same coverage for dgital over the next 10 years.

    I have had a cell phone since 1990 and recall the days when sometimes finding any signal (obviously then analog only) was difficult, but overtime, the entire nation built out analog networks. What do you guys think the future is for a digital only world, especially on Sprint?

    I have not missed the analog capabilities. In the past 3.5 years as as Sprint customer, I think I used analog once, and I travel quite a bit. So the loss of analog with the Treo was not biggy.

    Can anyone shed any insight into the future of digital only communications?

    (Sorry so long)
    Carl
  2. #2  
    Originally posted by CarlGalgano
    I hope I can ask this question so it can be understood.

    It is a well established fact that the Treo300 & Treo600 do not support the analog AMPS 800 mHz frequency. That much I understand.

    As I understand it, there are 2 bands used for CDMA digital service, one at 1900mHz and the other at 800mHz. As far as I know, Sprint uses the 1900 PCS band exclusivly, verizon supports both, but has a majority of it's service in the 800 mHz band. I assume there are other carriers, some maybe very small, local or regional players.

    I have read that Sprint phones will roam on analog or digital, but I know the Treo will only do digital.

    So here are my questions:
    1. Can the Treo300 and Treo600 use both 800 and 1900 CDMA, or is it strictly at 1900 mHz phone?
    2. Is there an advantage to using either band. I am a neophyte when it comes to RF, but I do understand that the length of the wave length of the radio signal is differnt between the two bands, is one more advantageous? I have read, but have not verified that Sprint's indoor coverage is not as good as Verizons because of the use of 1900 mHz.
    3. Has anyone EVERY roamed digitally on their Treo? I have no idea how I would know if it was roaming. Unlike other phones I have had, there is no banner that indicates you are on Sprint, except when you first establish connection to the network.
    4. Will Sprint be building out their network in more rural (non interstate) portions of the country? or will they rely on establishing digital roaming agreements for this coverage, or will they just not care. Pretty much anywhere you go in the country these days has at least analog service, will we have the same coverage for dgital over the next 10 years.

    I have had a cell phone since 1990 and recall the days when sometimes finding any signal (obviously then analog only) was difficult, but overtime, the entire nation built out analog networks. What do you guys think the future is for a digital only world, especially on Sprint?

    I have not missed the analog capabilities. In the past 3.5 years as as Sprint customer, I think I used analog once, and I travel quite a bit. So the loss of analog with the Treo was not biggy.

    Can anyone shed any insight into the future of digital only communications?

    (Sorry so long)
    1. The Treo 300 is 1900 mhz only. So I believe it can roam on the small parts of Verizon's network that's 1900 mhz as well. The Treo 600 will be 1900 AND 800 mhz so it will be able to make full use of Verizon's network for digital roaming. Because of the capability, there's been talk of the posibility of it being licensed to be activated on Verizon as well as Sprint, but that's just speculation.

    2. From what I've heard, longer wavelengths penetrate buildings more easily. Because of that, Verizon's 800 mhz frequency can get inside buildings better than Sprint's 1900 mhz frequency. Think of it like this: When there's a stereo blasting the in the next room, what do you hear more of, the bass or treble? You hear the bass because the longer wavelength of the deep sounds penetrate the walls better than the shorter wavelength of higher sounds. Other than that, I don't think there's an advantage with one over the other.

    3. I'm just guessing, but I would think that the Treo 270 would let you know if you're roaming. Since it's GSM, you can roam on the GSM networks that your carrier has an agreement with. But because the Treo 300 is 1900 mhz only, it's unlikely that you would roam on it. There is an option for roaming preferences to make a tone if you start roaming.

    4. I read somewhere that Sprint will be concentrating on building more sites and imporving coverage in areas in which they currently offer service. They want to improve service for current customers first before they start expanding to bring in more people if the network won't be able to handle it.

    I hope that clears some things up.
    Last edited by letsgoflyers81; 08/25/2003 at 07:11 AM.
  3. #3  
    "1. Can the Treo300 and Treo600 use both 800 and 1900 CDMA, or is it strictly at 1900 mHz phone?"

    The Treo 300 is 1900MHz only and is locked to Sprint. The Treo 600 is 800 and 1900MHz and is not contract-locked to Sprint, so if Handspring/PalmOne manage to establish contracts with other carriers such as Verizon, then you may be able to purchase a contract and use the phone through them.

    "2. Is there an advantage to using either band. I am a neophyte when it comes to RF, but I do understand that the length of the wave length of the radio signal is differnt between the two bands, is one more advantageous? I have read, but have not verified that Sprint's indoor coverage is not as good as Verizons because of the use of 1900 mHz."

    There is no practical difference. The 800MHz and 1900MHz frequencies are simply two different parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that happen to be available (via the FCC regulation) in the United States. GSM in the United States also runs at 1900MHz. Europe and most of the rest of the world uses 900MHz and 1800MHz for GSM. The frequency isn't the reason for poor coverage. Sprint simply doesn't have as many towers as Verizon to provide the overlap in coverage. Thus signal strength in buildings will vary with how far the signal has to travel to get to the phone.

    "3. Has anyone EVERY roamed digitally on their Treo? I have no idea how I would know if it was roaming. Unlike other phones I have had, there is no banner that indicates you are on Sprint, except when you first establish connection to the network."

    I roam all the time with my Treo 270 (GSM) throughout the U.S. and Internationally. The Treo displays the carrier on which you are roaming and also BLINKS the word "Roaming" while you are roaming. You simply need to have a signal (and your carrier has to have a roaming agreement with the carrier that picks you up.) If your plan allows for free roaming, then you don't end up paying anything extra.

    "4. Will Sprint be building out their network in more rural (non interstate) portions of the country? or will they rely on establishing digital roaming agreements for this coverage, or will they just not care. Pretty much anywhere you go in the country these days has at least analog service, will we have the same coverage for dgital over the next 10 years. "

    I was a VoiceStream user before they became T-Mobile. I have noticed a marked improvement in coverage as T-Mobile expands their network and coverage agreements with other carriers. I can only assume that Sprint is working on the same thing. You can expect that digital service will be as prolific as analog. I don't think it will take as long as analog took to grow, but it will take some time. Digital is the future. It has the advantage of being compressible which saves bandwidth (and thus money) for the carriers (once the equipment is in place). So I don't think it will be abandoned.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  4. #4  
    Minor correction:

    Higher frequency = shorter wavelength.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Minor correction:

    Higher frequency = shorter wavelength.
    Yup, you're right. I had a major brain fart on that one.
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by letsgoflyers81


    ...snip...

    2. From what I've heard, longer wavelengths penetrate buildings more easily. Because of that, Verizon's 800 mhz frequency can get inside buildings better than Sprint's 1900 mhz frequency. Think of it like this: When there's a stereo blasting the in the next room, what do you hear more of, the bass or treble? You hear the bass because the longer wavelength of the deep sounds penetrate the walls better than the shorter wavelength of higher sounds. Other than that, I don't think there's an advantage with one over the other.

    ...snip...
    Actually, the higher frequency radio waves' penetration into buildings is better because the shorter wavelength signal has the ability to reflect off conducting objects such as hard walls. However, the distance that the waves can travel is less (due to foliage absorbtion), so carriers do have to have more towers to get high signal strength to their customers' phones.

    So 1900MHz would actually penetrate a building better than 900MHz. Radio waves and sound waves may both be measured in dBs, but they do not behave the same way when traveling through the air. Humans cannot hear above a certain frequency, so when sound travels through a wall and is reflected, the higher frequency (tweeter/treble) sounds aren't heard as well, even though they are still getting through and being resonated. The lower frequency (base) sounds vibrate the walls at a lower frequency, so they can be heard better by human ears.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by Insp_Gadget


    Actually, the higher frequency radio waves' penetration into buildings is better because the shorter wavelength signal has the ability to reflect off conducting objects such as hard walls. However, the distance that the waves can travel is less (due to foliage absorbtion), so carriers do have to have more towers to get high signal strength to their customers' phones.

    So 1900MHz would actually penetrate a building better than 900MHz. Radio waves and sound waves may both be measured in dBs, but they do not behave the same way when traveling through the air. Humans cannot hear above a certain frequency, so when sound travels through a wall and is reflected, the higher frequency (tweeter/treble) sounds aren't heard as well, even though they are still getting through and being resonated. The lower frequency (base) sounds vibrate the walls at a lower frequency, so they can be heard better by human ears.
    That's interesting, but the explanation I was given about penetration and distance with RF was applied to high frequencies and not audible signals, that was just the analogy given. The specific example that the explanation was used for was for cordless phones. Some people find that 900 mhz phones work better through walls than 2.4 ghz phones do. I heard that for the reasons I stated above, the longer wavelength/lower frequency does a better job. Or maybe the guys on TechTV don't know what they're talking about.
  8.    #8  
    Thanks to all for the great info and answers.
    Carl

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