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  1. #101  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    Re-establish credibility? According to all of your prior posts I have never had any credibility.
    Jake, I think you HAD lots of creditbility. But, like some here, this thread has turned into entertainment value.
    I was not at your meeting, so I have no idea what really happened, however, it does sound to me like JH felt like he got ambushed. Ideas are one thing, prototypes are another. Simply walking in with an idea and saying "this is a great idea I have and I will let you licence it..." is simply not the best strategy. You had an idea and JH was not interested. In my opinion..... end of story, but you want to turn it into something personal. (with JH, not me). You need to accept critisim when people do not agree with you. As it is posted here already, I could care less about JH's personality, I could also care less if the Treo600 is a huge sucess. All I want is a tool to make my job/life better. None of the rest of it matters.

    You've gotta learn not to take yourself too seriously.

    I also agree this fourm is pretty insignificant. I enjoy it, but the rest of the world is sadly more interested in Joe Millionaire (or whatever the new hot reality TV show is these days.... sorry I am out of touch on that front)
    Carl
  2. #102  
    Now that everyone has started to weigh in, please, allow me.

    JakeE,
    I think that there are alot of people in this world who could benefit from listening to ANYONE who has as much passion about their product as you do. If Jeff didn't want to listen, or more likely, wasn't (legally) able to listen, then that may've been why he came off as rude. Have you stopped to consider that maybe they have something very similiar in the works and your pitching a license deal spooked them? I have been actively involved in fields that deal with intellectual property for quite awhile, and the one thing that will send people screaming from a room, chanting" na na na na. I can't hear you!" is for someone to walk in with an idea that is similiar. It opens everyone in the room up to an infringement lawsuit. It's the same reason record companies don't accept un-solicited demo tapes. I am sorry to hear that you felt slighted, but there may have been a reason.

    On the other hand I am going to have to open myself up to attack by saying "Please, chill out." You do seem to be taking some of our fellow posters a little to seriously. First off, maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but truthfully who cares what purplex says or thinks. He's distinguished himself as a detractor of the product we all meet here to discuss and we all know pretty much verbatim what he's going to say on any given subject.
    "Treo sucks. PPC is better."
    Really, don't waste your energy.
    What worried me was your response to some of the other posters by asking questions designed to make them feel like they weren't worthy to be here. You know what JakeE? I don't know the first thing about Einstein"'s theory of "Cosmopolitan Logistics" or whatever the hell you kept asking about. Is it relavent? Maybe. Did he answer your question? No. Does that not give you the answer right there? A more secure individual would not have continued to bring it up. It reminded me of when I was with my older cousin and a pretty girl would walk by. He would grab me in some barbaric pressure hold and make me scream "Uncle" to get out. Did that impress the girl? Sometimes. We were in rural Alabama after all. lol. Do I ever want to think of someone whose opinion I value in that category? No. So stop forcing me to do that with you, friend.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #103  
    huh? that doesn't jibe at all... *scrunch eyebrows*. Am I missing anything?
  4. #104  
    this is one dead thread. frankly, it went no were, and does little toward the discussion of the treo. it is more about character assasinations. jackee i admire your dedication but you've done little with this thread to shed light on the 600 which should be the topic at hand. if you would re focus on that, i'm sure we all could learn something.
  5. #105  
    In all fairness, JakeE never SAID he had a vendetta with Jeff Hawkins OR Handspring, though many of you have assumed that to be the case. Why don't you wait to hear all of the story before passing further judgement on the issue? I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I HAVE heard of that catchy little phrase, "Innocent until proven guilty." This thread has turned into some sort of a "trial by fire" with many of you waving torches.

    I completely understand Jake's frustration. It's not so much that Hawkins shot down his ideas.. but more so, that he was not understood. I think Jake could have taken the rejection, had he felt that Jeff Hawkins at least made an effort to listen and understand what he was trying to explain. Aside from "7 Habits..," another one of my favorite books is "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher and William Ury. Here's an excerpt:

    SEPARATE THE PEOPLE FROM THE PROBLEM
    "There are three big problems in communication. First, negotiators may not be talking to each other, or at least not in such a way as to be understood. Frequently each side has given up on the other and is no longer attempting any serious communication with it. Instead they talk merely to impress third parties or their own constituency. Rather than trying to dance with their negotiating partner toward a mutually agreeable outcome, they try to trip him up. Rather than trying to talk their partner into a more constructive step, they try to talk the spectators into taking sides. Effective communication between the parties is all but impossible if each plays to the gallery."

    Perhaps DrDoom has a good point that there was for a reason for the snub. But I still don't think that it justifies Hawkins acting like an arrogant jerk to someone that is trying to help promote his products. Would that change my opinion of the Treo 600? No. Would it change my opinion of Jeff Hawkins. Perhaps. But I will wait for the complete story before I give MY verdict.

    MY concern is that if this is true, and Jeff Hawkins does not care about us (the faithful Treo users and potential customers), then WHAT the hell is it that he cares about?

    RayUSA

    "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge."
    - Albert Einstein
  6.    #106  
    Originally posted by JTREOB
    if the intent was to sell jh something, jakee you struck out. if the intent was to help them improve the 600 with out any self benefit then maybe they struck out.

    the treo has some serious major draw backs as one unit business device, which was its intent. i wish jakee would have gone in and carried forward the most obvious and most complained about problems at this site. i can't believe jh wouldn't have listened if it was stated " i'm here to carry forward messages from your current and future users. these users are activily discussing you current and future treo models, and from what i gathered they would like and hope to see with the new treo. 1) a screen that can be seen in direct sunlight 2)................... 3)....................... and limit it to maybe 5.

    maybe jh and his partner were rude, but then i don't know what you said and how you said it. if your meeting was for self profiting purposes at all, then like jh, my time has been wasted by you, as well.
    JTREOB:

    I was very interested in discussing the insight that I had collected from the members of this forum with Jeff. After our meeting I told Jeff that I had not had the opportunity to do so and I pleaded with him to please allow me to do so and he said no.

    Please understand I am an extremely passionate designer and I take design very, very seriously. I believe it was George Bernard Shaw that said, “Most men see things as they are and wonder why. I dream of things that never were and wonder, why not?”

    As a designer and scientist I always try to think ahead of the curve. I believe I have uncovered the inevitable ultimate form factor for the future of handheld computers. By that I mean than my Phantom V design reference is as small as a handheld computer can be without while remaining useful. I am certain there will be another generation in the future that is implanted in your eye or generates a hologram that only you can see from your wristwatch, but for the physical limitations of this generation, I believe I unearthed it.

    I ask that before you pass judgment you examine my design work. It will be posted on this web site as soon as I have the time to do it correctly. For whatever reason I am a very patient man and I take great pride in my design work. I believe good things have always taken time.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  7. #107  
    I am going to respectfully repeat my healthy skepticism here without any torch in my hand. I will need some kind of verifiable PROOF that JakeE even met with Jeff Hawkins before I can have an intelligent opinion on anything further that JakeE writes about it. Without that, we are all open to being like sheep and Jake can just play to the gallery. I don't know why he would unless this entire thread is simply to draw attention to him and his design ideas and to "riff" with us smaller minds about the Treo 600 or handhelds in general. Because JakeE is not likely to be able to provide any believable evidence (other than his own word - which I have correctly identified as heresay), and because none of us indeed truly know him, we have to take things said with a grain of salt and remember that everyone is subject to their own subjectivity. Why doesn't JakeE just start a thread and say "Hey guys, I have some cool design ideas to share here, what do you all think?" Instead, we get this alleged drama about meeting with Jeff Hawkins and how Jake's important ideas were wrongly dismissed by the big Wizard of Palm. We all know this story already. After Dorothy exposed the Wizard as a fraud behind the curtain, she wakes up and we all learn that it was just a dream. Think about this. Until you truly know that Jake even met with Jeff Hawkins, (other than repeatedly SAYING that he has), it is healthy as a critically thinking individual to be skeptical. I will be the first one to line up and eat crow if it can be PROVEN that this meeting took place.

    There is a simple way to end this little charade and that is to prove me wrong with believable evidence that this meeting even occurred in the first place. Only after THAT point has been reasonably established as fact vs. fiction can intelligent discussion proceed about what was said by whom, etc.

    I have no idea how widely read or significant of a reach that this forum has beyond the core number of Treo lovers. I do believe that the overall significance of this forum is likely very small. One's own passion can sometimes become as a religion and blindly overinflate the real value in the greater scheme of things.

    The Artist can dream and then proceed to create design. The Scientist must always verify with evidence and proof before proceeding. It seems to be best when these two are complimentary.

    I remain skeptical until evidence proves otherwise.

    -THP
    Last edited by Nautilus Man; 08/17/2003 at 04:34 PM.
    Think First, ask questions later!
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #108  
    After our meeting I told Jeff that I had not had the opportunity to do so and I pleaded with him to please allow me to do so and he said no.
    Nobody needs to communcate what is being said in this forum to HS. If they are too daft to follow the only major forum for their product, they have gone dodo long time ago. They are making consumer electronic product. If they are not listening to consumers, they only have electronic products nobody wants. If consumers want pink cocktail umbrella with their phone, they better damned sure they provide it or else somebody else will.

    Jake, mister scientist, designer, slash lawyer... post your article already so people can better judge what was going on. Right now you are rambling.
  9. #109  
    Well said.

    I couldn't have put that better. I think that we all just need to see Moses come down from the mountain with God than for him to tell us he did. I don't know how proof could be established, but even if it was, where is the essential part of the discussion?

    JakeE, I have long enjoyed your postings here and I am sure I will continue to do so. You always share your mind openly with us and seem receptive to our ideas in return. Let's get back to that and leave the Jeff meeting where it belongs...in the past. I understand your frustration, but let it pass. You know, and I know Hawkins isn't stressing over it, so why should you? You may be the Da Vinci of design, but he has proven he doesn't care. So I suggest a more realistic strategy. Hit him where it counts! Build your own Treo! You definitely have the intelligence and the drive. When the Phantom V outsells the Treo1400 who'll be laughing then?
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #110  
    Plus jake, who on earth names a cool phone mock up 'Phantom V"? it sounded like a broadway musical gone wrong.

    Can't you name it, say razor, stilletto, or even magneto? Just a thought.
  11. #111  
    I think the idea behind the name was that it doesn't exist and probably won't for a long time if ever. How pratical is controling your palm with your eyes? What if you have to look up for a second, or you just want to examine another portion of the screen? I would rather use a stylus any day. By the way, some of you people (Jakee, natilus man, purplex) seem to be constantly posting-is this how you spend your weekend?
    "Matters of great concern should be taken lightly, matters of small concern should be taken seriously."
    -ancient chinese adage
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #112  
    It's too hot to play outside. duh!
  13. #113  
    BTW... in case anyone is interested, the cosmological constant is a parameter which defines the energy density of empty space (vacuum). Einstein basically made it up to balance the equations in General Relativity so that the universe would remain static. Later, Edwin Hubble discovered that galaxies were receding from us, thus the universe was not static.

    Einstein admitted that the cosmological constant was the largest blunder he ever made.

    Now, JakeE, in what way is this relevant?
  14.    #114  
    kkelloww:

    Welcome to the forum? How did you find this thread just out of curiosity?

    I could not have said it any better myself. You nailed it with perfect bulls-eye precision. Edwin Hubble discovered all the galaxies are moving away from each other. Call it the ever expanding Universe if you will.

    You said "Einstein admitted that the cosmological constant was the largest blunder he ever made."

    Since you are so smart I will let you do the math on that one.

    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 08/17/2003 at 06:35 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  15. #115  
    The real question is will JakeE admit that this entire "Wizard of Palm" fabrication was the largest blunder that HE ever made?

    Sincerely Yours,

    Edwin Hubble

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  16.    #116  
    Originally posted by Nautilus Man
    The real question is will JakeE admit that this entire "Wizard of Palm" fabrication was the largest blunder that HE ever made?

    Sincerely Yours,

    Edwin Hubble

    -THP
    Natilus Man:

    Sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind.

    Sincerely Yours,

    The Cowardly Lion
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  17. #117  
    Jake:
    Thanks! I've actually been following Treo 300 and now Treo 600 posts since the 300 came out. I'm very excited about the 600 even though I'm disappointed in some of the features. I'll still buy it the instant it's available because I'm a gadget freak.

    I have a question for you. Since you knew about your meeting with JH 2 weeks in advance, why didn't you let Treocentral users know about the meeting so they could give you feedback to present to JH? That would have made a great thread!
  18. #118  
    When and if the article comes out I will ONLY be interested in factual REPORTING on thoughts, plans, future directions, technologies and features that JH and the other HS person talked about, and I will appreciates the efforts made to bring that to us pro bono.

    Editorial comments, descriptions of the mechanics of the interview, personality and psycho analyses of the participents do not interest me whatsoever. I would only read op-ed pieces from people that have demonstrated that their opinions are worth reading. From the samples I've seen here, I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that that is be the case.

    JakeE: I urge you to write an article that sticks to the HS side (as mentioned above) and detatch it from your personal, emotional experience and opinions.
    Last edited by silverado; 08/18/2003 at 06:53 AM.
  19.    #119  
    Kkelloww:

    At the end of my Article “Treo 600: Love at first site” I said “I would like it if this thread could evolve into a discussion on what features people would like to see in future Treo's and Palm's. The only way they will hear and understand us is if we share our ideas with them.”

    Many people responded with brilliant insight. Later in that discussion I promised everyone that I would follow up with Handspring and try to pass along all their precious ideas and insight.

    I did not mention my upcoming meeting with Jeff because I did want to jeopardize it by mentioning it. You know how sarcastic people in this forum can get. I was actually hoping that Jeff would be excited and recommend creating a better feedback loop.

    In other words I would have loved to have come back after the meeting and say, guess what, I talked with Jeff Hawkins and shared your brilliant ideas with him and here is what he said….

    I think in the future it would behoove Palm to have a liaison to the Palm community like the Google Guy at WebMasterWorld.com.

    In the final analysis I believe success to a large extent is dependent upon your ability to understand your customers’ needs and desires, thus the need for a better feedback loop.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  20.    #120  
    Originally posted by silverado
    When and if the article come out I will ONLY be interested in factual REPORTING on thoughts, plans and future directions, technologies and features that JH and the other person talked about, and I wil appreciates the efforts made to bring that to us pro bono.

    Edirorial comments, descriptions of the mechanics of the interview, personality and psycho analyses of the participents do not interest me whatsoever. I would only read op-ed pieces from people that have demonstrated that their opinions are worth reading. From the samples I've seen here, I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that that is be the case.

    JakeE: I urge you to write an article that sticks to the HS side (as mentioned above) and detatch it from your personal,emotional experience and opinions.
    I agree 100%!!!
    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich

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