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  1. #41  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    My article, Treo 600: Love at first site, had over 25,000 page views. If I helped 10% of the people who read that article to make a purchase decision to obtain a Treo 600 that would be over a million dollars in additional sales for Handspring.
    How do you figure that? I think the counter counts the number of views, not the number of unique viewers. I know I for one have probably gone through that thread a bunch of times.
  2.    #42  
    KRamsauer:

    You can dice and slice the pageview data a bazillion different ways. The bottom line is if the tables were turned I would have treated the situation differently.

    I have contributed REAL value to HS and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

    As I just suggested, please reserve your critical judgment until you can see for yourself what I presented to HS.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  3.    #43  
    Originally posted by nrosser
    well at least he met with you (even if might have been a waste of everyone's time - his and his team's, and yours).
    At least he met with me???? You mean at least I met with him??? I went out of my way to share valueable insight with him. I am his patron. I am his customer; not the other way around.

    Jeff is a man and just like you and me he puts his pants on one leg at a time.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  4. #44  
    Originally posted by confusedvorlon
    Hi Jake,

    What was the background to this meeting?

    My assumption following your review (which you know we loved) and the initial mention you made of your interview was that this was 'a chance for the fans to chat to the master about the treo'.

    It sounds like you thought it was 'a chance for your company to pitch ideas on how future treo's could/should be built.'

    Could a misunderstanding like this be the root of the problem?

    If so, it does't excuse rudeness - but perhaps puts it in some context.
    JakeE, I think this is the most important question asked of you in this entire thread. Can you address this question posted by confusedvorlon?

    In addition, your UI app has already existed. It's called Speedy (not to be confused with the app Speedy for checking benchmarks).

    I use it all the time, it's a great app.

    Download it from PalmGear here:
    Speedy
  5. #45  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    KRamsauer:

    I have contributed REAL value to HS and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.

    As I just suggested, please reserve your critical judgment until you can see for yourself what I presented to HS.

    Jake
    Jake who are you? You set up a meeting w/ Hawkins to do an interview (i thought), and waste it to try to sell your ideas to him? your train idea - id rather be able to program each indiviudal key becuase i want some to call people and others to assign to frequently used programs, i dont use all programs - so your plan would often add keystrokes.
    also, i'd like to have been a fly on the wall when u tried to tell them that they had stolen ideas from you.

    Your not Walt Mossberg (WSJ), keep that in mind.
  6. #46  
    Originally posted by JakeE

    Soon I will be sharing my work product with you. In the meantime I can tell you that my device reference which I named the Phantom V is two thirds the size of a Treo 600 yet it has a 320x480 screen that is twice physical size of the Treo 600 and instead of having a physical keyboard it has an pop-up on screen keyboard that uses your retina for password security and for most navigation including keyboard text entry.

    Sure it's easy to fit a larger screen if you get rid of the keyboard. Personally I would be very happy with a screen that size, but if it meant losing the keyboard I don't think it would be worth it. A soft keyboard is unacceptable for quick text entry, because you need to use your stylus. I think that one of the treo's biggest strenghts is the keyboard. I also think that you went into the meeting with very high expectations. However, I am looking forward to your article and to your design of the Phantom V. Also if you want JH to take you seriously about Bullet Train make a hack of it.
    And how does it use your retina for navigation?
    "Matters of great concern should be taken lightly, matters of small concern should be taken seriously."
    -ancient chinese adage
  7.    #47  
    Originally posted by craigdts


    Jake who are you? You set up a meeting w/ Hawkins to do an interview (i thought), and waste it to try to sell your ideas to him? your train idea - id rather be able to program each indiviudal key becuase i want some to call people and others to assign to frequently used programs, i dont use all programs - so your plan would often add keystrokes.
    also, i'd like to have been a fly on the wall when u tried to tell them that they had stolen ideas from you.

    Your not Walt Mossberg (WSJ), keep that in mind.

    craigdts:

    Who are you??? I never said I set up a meeting to do an interview. For the record I approached Jeff Hawkins sharing with him that I had ideas on how to take the Treo 600 to the next level and beyond.

    For the record, I never accused anyone of stealing from me. I was simply pointing out that if anything I was forward thinking and that I understand the future from a strategic design perspective.

    Do you think I don't realize I am not Walt Mossberg? Keep what in mind? Are you trying to pigeonhole me and put me in my place when you probably don't know the first thing about me? Are you a greyman???
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  8. #48  
    I didn't read this board for a few days and I just saw this thread. Here are the main points that come to mind as I react to the sampling I have done of what's been written:

    - It seems that they may have looked at JakeE as a business man who is trying to sell them some ideas. I'm sure they have seen many such people, most of them do this for a living. It looks like they gave JakeE a grilling, the type you would give to anyone who is trying to sell you something.

    - JakeE: I don't know you, but I only know you through your writings here. You seem like a passionate guy who has many ideas you believe in deeply. However I think that you were probably out of the norm from the people JH meets with to pitch ideas to him. Not sure why the agreed to the meeting, but when you took the presenter position, you got the rough treatment of a cut-throat business setting. You have to stand there and defend your ideas, no benefit of the doubt is given. People have to be great persuaders and have special skills to get through something like this successfully. I really feel for you and I understand the frustration you feel after this meeting, but I don't fault the other side from a business perspective....

    - Do we really care whether Jeff Hawkins or anyone else at HS is rude or not? It seems like we are getting really touchy-feely here, this is indicated by the love letters to JH we've seen here and the attitude of people talking to JH here expecting that he is listening. I couldn't care less about the manners of Jeff Hawkins. I care about the products that come out, and I'll judge them for their merits.

    - What JH does with his money and time is his own choice. Why would we be so disappointed that he's more interested in neurosience now than handhelds?! People have passions and pursue them. People who are soo upset and shocked with that are sounding like deep religous believers with their icon falling from grace. I think those with such opinions need to get out of this cult-like, touchy-feely mode and wake up and smell the coffee!

    Just a few random thoughts...

    I'm quite excited for the upcoming Treo 600 just the same.
    Last edited by silverado; 08/16/2003 at 09:50 PM.
  9. #49  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    As I just suggested, please reserve your critical judgment until you can see for yourself what I presented to HS.
    I don't have to reserve critical judgement when all necessary info is presented in your post. It was a little mistake that I pointed out, no biggie.
  10.    #50  
    Originally posted by wcarlson40


    JakeE, I think this is the most important question asked of you in this entire thread. Can you address this question posted by confusedvorlon?

    In addition, your UI app has already existed. It's called Speedy (not to be confused with the app Speedy for checking benchmarks).

    I use it all the time, it's a great app.

    Download it from PalmGear here:
    Speedy
    Thank you for sharing the link to Speedy with us. My UI is significantly different as you will see.

    The background of the meeting is that I wrote and glowing article about the Treo 600 and told Jeff that I had some great ideas I wanted to share with him about the future of the Treo 600 and beyons.

    I hope I answered your question. If you are not satisfied with my answer let me know and I will try to better articualte it.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  11.    #51  
    Originally posted by mwylde


    Sure it's easy to fit a larger screen if you get rid of the keyboard. Personally I would be very happy with a screen that size, but if it meant losing the keyboard I don't think it would be worth it. A soft keyboard is unacceptable for quick text entry, because you need to use your stylus. I think that one of the treo's biggest strenghts is the keyboard. I also think that you went into the meeting with very high expectations. However, I am looking forward to your article and to your design of the Phantom V. Also if you want JH to take you seriously about Bullet Train make a hack of it.
    And how does it use your retina for navigation?
    My Phantom V design reference has three camera lenses onboard. It has one on the front of the device that tracks your retina movement and uses your eyes as a mouse. It also uses graphical feedback on the device so you know what is going on. My Phantom V does away with the stylus once and for all.

    I hope this is a clear answer. If not please let me know.

    Jake
    Last edited by JakeE; 08/16/2003 at 06:13 PM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  12.    #52  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I don't have to reserve critical judgement when all necessary info is presented in your post. It was a little mistake that I pointed out, no biggie.
    KRamsauer:

    I forgot to mention, I dig your avatar. I really like color.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  13. #53  
    I just want to put a few words in here...

    Guys (and gals), keep the personal attacks aside.. There has been two much bickering between people in this thread.. Listen, and it's amazing what you will hear.

    Going back some, page views do come from unique visitors, as that number was taken from our website statistics program, not the board.


    From PurpleX:
    2. Edge was total loser. Instead of going high end trying to compete with m500. They should have done something like Zire. They shouldn't be so afraid bringing the entire product value to the ditch. It bounds to happen anyway. Plus, sub $200 B/W models turns out to be pretty profitable.
    I don't know much on this, but I do know enough. Handspring DID have a $99 visor ready to go, a year before the zire. BUT, as Donna Dubinsky said in the confrence calls of the time, they made a major decision (or something akin to that), and that major choice was to cancel production of this unit, and not release it. It is still a turning point for HS IMHO, becuase the zire has been a killer seller (many more than 1 million now), and if they had it a year earlier when the economy was better... It would of really sent Handspring deeper into the organizer line at a time they were trying to gracefully exit it... Just to put a comment on that qoute - bit off topic though.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #54  
    Originally posted by JakeE

    When I realized I would be meeting with Jeff Hawkins I was so excited I decided I did not want to waste the opportunity. Three years ago I had designed a UI enhancement for the Pocket PC. My UI concept was called BulletTrain. The basic gist of Bullet Train is that it made the PPC ten times faster and ten times easier to use.
    Well if you believe on your idea so much, time to hire a programer and put that idea into real world.

    You won't be the first who think up a UI replacement/enhancement.

    Heck you can even buy old iPAQ and load Linux on it and write your own complete GUI environment. A couple of guy has tried that, some are pretty interesting.

    I have no idea why you even bother going the Handspring way if you think your idea is that significant.
  15. #55  
    based on reading all this tripe, you basically are a bit disturbed. I recommend professional help.

    you are way way way too defensive. and take things much too personally. And you tried to sell JH and co (if you actually did meet them, which I doubt- maybe in a delussional dream), and they turned you out like they would any ***** with no biz acumen and non practical ideas.

    retina tracking? give me an effing break. won't be here for 10 year, at the earliest - the processing power, as well as human factors eng. is daunting.

    phantom V....more like phantom jive...
  16. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #56  
    Originally posted by miradu


    I don't know much on this, but I do know enough. Handspring DID have a $99 visor ready to go, a year before the zire. BUT, as Donna Dubinsky said in the confrence calls of the time, they made a major decision (or something akin to that), and that major choice was to cancel production of this unit, and not release it. It is still a turning point for HS IMHO, becuase the zire has been a killer seller (many more than 1 million now), and if they had it a year earlier when the economy was better... It would of really send Handspring deeper into the organizer line at a time they were trying to gracefully exit it... Just to put a comment on that qoute - bit off topic though.
    Zire was launched in the height of recession, and I can bet my money it saves Palm inc's market share, if not their book.

    Who care if it sends anybody to organizer line or the Jupiter? It makes boat load of money. They can even do the razor and shaver trick with the handheld/springboard. But they didn't, they give up the handheld entirely and decide to do 'treo, when the OS is not really ready for a true smartphone/communicator, and end up with Palm organizer glued to a phone.

    I really do think they never get over the glittering day of Palm V, and thought the world will always be willing to pay a$499 organizer.

    oh well... Let's see what Dell is going to pull early next year, they already making noise about making smartphone. I would be really scarred and run for the hill if I am in smartphone business.
  17. #57  
    Originally posted by JakeE


    My Phantom V design reference has three camera lenses onboard. It has one on the front of the device that tracks your retina movement and uses your eyes as a mouse. It also uses graphical feedback on the device so you know what is going on. My Phantom V does away with the stylus once and for all.

    I hope this is a clear answer. If not please let me know.

    Jake
    And the price rage is in the thousands...
    If your going to be thinking about such revolutionary (not to mention expensive) technology that won't be available for many years why compare it to a treo 600, with is going to be released for before yours. Also why are you surprised when JH does not show interest in it when it fits more in a science fiction novel then on shelves.
    "Matters of great concern should be taken lightly, matters of small concern should be taken seriously."
    -ancient chinese adage
  18. #58  
    Originally posted by miradu

    I don't know much on this, but I do know enough. Handspring DID have a $99 visor ready to go, a year before the zire. BUT, as Donna Dubinsky said in the confrence calls of the time, they made a major decision (or something akin to that), and that major choice was to cancel production of this unit, and not release it. It is still a turning point for HS IMHO, becuase the zire has been a killer seller (many more than 1 million now), and if they had it a year earlier when the economy was better... It would of really sent Handspring deeper into the organizer line at a time they were trying to gracefully exit it... Just to put a comment on that qoute - bit off topic though.
    This is the crux of the arguement I made in the other thread about the business decisions made by HS management. Why did it have to be decision based on all or nothing? Why totally abandon the pda business when they had yet to prove any success in the smartphone arena? I've read many explanations that HS could not afford the R&D to support both product lines, but this has as much to do with the myriad to terrible business decisions made before hand and the economic recession that followed. Specifically, the hubris and foolish decison to take on debt to finance realestate purchases, the devleopment of BW Edge as apposed to color, and the poor business timing of their smartphone product rollout when the market had yet to materialize? Anyway there's alot more questions I have which I already mentioned in the other thread... so it makes nopoint repeating them here...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  19. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #59  
    So how will handheld history remember jh? A bright man that launched the business but then failed to adapt and become anachronism?

    From the ghist of it he seems to have lost interest entirely on handheld development, not tomention he is not in the middle of it all. He definitely doesn't have a say on OS 6.0 or next line of Palm handheld using it. And nobody has shown a prototype or an interview describing what he thinks Palm smartphone ought to be after treo 600.

    All this happening right before the market is about to explode and the scene getting really hot. Two years from now when the economy is back full swing, I wonder who will remember Handspring. More importantly, who will sell the next Vx of the smartphone, a $1200 bucks shiny smartphone gadget that will define what a category should be.

    heh... I can't wait for that. I put my money on motorola powered, followed by Dell.
  20. #60  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    So how will handheld history remember jh? A bright man that launched the business but then failed to adapt and become anachronism?
    Ska, you like taking a bit of truth and then squeezing the life out of it until its totally unrecognizable don't ya? Anyway to answer your question: it all depends on the success of the Treo600. If this product truns out to be a success, then the initial decision to invest and bet so heavily on smartphones will be viewed as visionary. It would vindicate HS's long term vision and help propel "Palmspring" into a vast and lucaritve market segment. Havning said that, JH will still always be remembered as the "father" of pda's b/c of his initial contibutions regardless...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
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