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  1. #61  
    Originally posted by purpleX



    But that's just the point, Microsoft can afford to spend money and learn from mistakes much longer than Palm. ...plus I doubt Microsoft mobile division bleed as much money as Palm in the last 2-3 years.
    I'm not whining (you need to stop speaking down to people, it really hurts your cause and genuinely ticks people off), I was responding to the "Microsoft deserves everything they have" comment. While collectively that may be true, you cannot say that much about individual components. While a rich family may deserve everything they have, the disfunctional son may not.

    One reason MS mobile division may (and I emphasize may because your statement was also just a guess) not have burned as much cash is that they are purely software-no manufacturing/production costs.
  2. #62  
    How about forgetting the 'soap opera - stay tuned for the next episode' vibe and just throwing it out there for all and sundry to read ?

    Sorry dude but the excitement over your 5 episode 'mini-series' is dwindling... fast.
    www.gsmworld.com
  3. #63  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    fred.illies:

    I understand what you are saying. I put together a deal with Treocentral.com to publish a weekly five part series which will cover everything I have discussed and promised.

    Somebody in the forum in the other thread which was closed my Marcus asked when they could expect to read my review. I told them I planned to have it ready by the end of last week. I kept my word.

    I had the first part of my series prepared for publishing this last Friday, August 22, 2003. Marcus said he would put it up by Friday evening. I spoke with him Saturday and he was having a challenge with ants in his home but assured me he would have it up later Saturday evening.

    I have not heard from Marcus yet but I imagine he was overwhelmed this weekend. I imagine he will be publishing my fist installment tomorrow (Monday, August 24, 2003)

    I am very excited about sharing my insight with the forum members and getting feedback. I have seen many examples of people who attempted to put forth ideas that were half-baked. I can assure you that this in not a hoax in any way and that I believe my upcoming series will be very exciting and shed substantial light on the future of the Handheld category.

    I intend for the discussion that follows my articles to my positive, productive and professional. I discussed this in advance with Marcus and he assured me that the degree of monitoring on personal attacks will be increased and that personal attacks will not be tolerated. I wish to have dialog with the members of this forum that at the minimum will bear fruit and at the maximum will help move the sorry state of handheld computers forward.

    As I mention in Part 1 of my series, the only thing Jeff Hawkins and I seemed to agree upon is the increasingly significant role that handheld computing will play in our lives. In my personal opinion the state of handheld computers and desktop PIM software is totally lame…As a designer I am stunned at how slow real progress is going.

    In my series and in my meeting with Jeff Hawkins I not only offered a great deal of constructive criticism, but I offered a great deal of detailed constructive solutions.

    For the readers who review my articles you will see for the first time exactly what I presented to Jeff Hawkins. Not what Jeff saw, but what I intended for him to see. I accused Jeff Hawkins in his office about an hour into our meeting of being “closed minded.”

    In a subsequent email with Jeff I reasserted my notion of him being closed minded, but who knows? Maybe Jeff will prove me wrong and if he chooses to review my articles, I am certain he will see a number of things he ignored or chose not to see in our meeting because he was too busy trying to haze me. Perhaps Jeff will also see a number of things for the first time as well.

    In my series I will be presenting many strong new ideas and concepts. I remain 100% confident that my ideas are truly innovative, much like the way Expose is innovative in Mac OS 10.3. In the thread that was closed on this subject there were so many people who prejudged me and my work product without seeing it. Essentially, doing the same thing Jeff Hawkins did. It should be interesting…

    Jake

    Here we go again....

    Well, It's Monday, 10:30 EST, and no article...but I'll give it another 12 hours.

    I think the bluff has been called many times, and never responded to, so I'm convinced this was all part of an over-active imagination.

    I'm still confused why the article needs to be published in TC rather than just your own web site. Is there some fiscal gain associated with it? I assumed most contributers to TC were pro bono.

    As for "personal attacks will not be tolerated", I think that's a good thing to keep it on topic and not degenerate the conversation. However, let's remember that doubting someone is not the same as a "personal attack", nor is stating an opinion.
    Thick skin is probably a prerequisite on any Internet fourm rather than hiding behind skirts.

    FYI...We're still waiting for your design documents that were supposed to be done last week...
  4. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #64  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer

    ////I'm not whining (you need to stop speaking down to people, it really hurts your cause and genuinely ticks people off), I was responding to the "Microsoft deserves everything they have" comment. While collectively that may be true, you cannot say that much about individual components. While a rich family may deserve everything they have, the disfunctional son may not./////

    unless you work for Palm inc. The whining I was referring to is Palm inc. it is well documented that Palm does actually have such view in regard to Microsoft. (It's a big joke in PPC scene)

    Does MS mobile unit deserve the money? Apparently Microsoft think so, and consider it an important long term strategy. Also, the financial trend of the division indicates a raising revenue and shrinking lost so I don't think Bill Gates is worrying Microsoft will get sucked into mobile division black hole.

    /////One reason MS mobile division may (and I emphasize may because your statement was also just a guess) not have burned as much cash is that they are purely software-no manufacturing/production costs. ////

    Than it is even worst for Palm isn't it? Their strategy has even higher burn rate than the already well resourced rival. Or are you saying we suppose to give pity over that fact?

    PS. Microsoft mobile is about 40M /Q revenue, up from about 15M/Q last year. I think the division lost is in the range of 30M/Q or so. I don't have exact numbers handy.
  5. #65  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    ...I believe my upcoming series will be very exciting and shed substantial light on the future of the Handheld category.

    ...In my series I will be presenting many strong new ideas and concepts. I remain 100% confident that my ideas are truly innovative...
    Jake, have you considered applying for patents for your product(s)? If it is what you promise, you might want to do this before someone thanks you for the great idea, promptly patents it, licenses it, and walks off with your millions.
    go.digital
  6. #66  
    This member is not interested in JakeE's designs; I want to know what Jeff Hawkins and company had to say. If the meeting was that contentious, I wonder how that aspect could fill a five-part series.

    I wish we could get a report on the meeting without opinion and editorial comments.

    I guess with the "interest" that JakeE's initial article got, TC thinks "the more the merrier". IMHO, the interest was more for the information content about the upcoming device than the dreamy commentary. IMO, TC would be better off putting an editorial- and commentary-free report in the front page and leave the dreamy fluff to the regular discussion boards.

    Just my 2 cents.
  7. #67  
    Enthusiasm and passion can bring together a lot of great creativity.
    but for the love of god, jake, is all this really necessary?
    please tell us your not just stalling simply because this is jeff hawkin's style!!
    as far as your claim that many half-baked attempts were made at new handheld designs, I seem to recall you stating although jeff hawkins may not care what treo fans ask for, you,in all sincerity, always will. So you go and call us half-baked? You're a funny guy jake! and don't be pretentious - it eats away at your credibility.
  8. #68  
    Make sure all of your ideas are uniquely your own, jake. I'd hate to see one of my "half-baked" ideas on your list of innovative, original, and revolutionary reforms to the world of handheld computing. We'd have trouble sharing your 100% confidence if this was to be the case.
  9. #69  
    Does the concern expressed over personal attacks include stuff like calling Jeff Hawkins closed minded just because he wasn't impressed with Jake's proposals?

    Jake E. vs. Jeff H. Stay tuned for the 5 part mini-series folks ... coming this fall on CBS!

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  10. #70  
    Originally posted by treobk214
    So you go and call us half-baked? You're a funny guy jake! and don't be pretentious - it eats away at your credibility.
    Does anyone seriously consider this guy credible? I've read with little interest the threads that he participates in. I usually end up just skimming over his posts, only to find other members' rebuttals to his comments more credible.

    Sorry to be so harsh, Jake, but I'm getting tired of the (your) wasted threads...
  11. #71  
    Just a reminder, folks...

    Personal attacks of any kind will NOT be tolerated here.

    If you all can't play nice, we're going to have ask you to pick up your toys and go home.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  12. njchris's Avatar
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    #72  
    Why not just lock the thread? It's one continuous bashing. It's sad to see people react with such venom and desire to knock someone down no matter what.
  13. #73  
    MarkEagle's warning (closely following JakeE's announcement that he would enjoy special protection against abuse) misses the point of nearly all of the "negative" comments in this thread. Criticizing anything JakeE wrote--even in forceful terms--is not a "personal attack." It is discussion. If JakeE wants to trumpet his views to the forum, then others ought to be able dissent in equally colorful terms.

    A personal attack would be: "JakeE is a horse's _____." Suggesting, however, that his writing is sophmoric, his views half-baked, his rhetoric overblown and his project more than a little self-serving is legitimate commentary on the words that JakeE choose to introject into the marketplace of ideas. (By the way, I have no idea whether JakeE is, or is not, a horse's anything. I never met the guy. I do think that his writing is sophmoric and self-serving.)

    The fact that MarkEagle's concern for JakeE's tender sensibilities comes just as Treocentral embarks on a five-part odyssey through the world of PDA interface design by JakeE is especially worrisome. Frankly, I would rather read about the world of PDA interface design by JeffH.

    You gonna' take my marbles, MarkEagle?
  14. #74  
    Originally posted by njchris
    Why not just lock the thread?
    I like to give fair warning in the hope that people will wake up and smell the coffee.

    I only read the first few and last few posts in this thread and can tell there's an abundance of bashing going on by all parties on all sides.

    It stops right here and now, or the thread will get locked, as will subsequent ones that are just more of the same.

    I don't like having to be the big, bad, moderator, but it is my job and I take it seriously... so don't push me too far!

    As stated in the Terms of Service:

    IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH THIS WEB SITE, OR ANY PORTION THEREOF, YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY SHALL BE TO CEASE USING THE WEB SITE.
    To quote an old favorite of mine from the early days at VisorCentral:

    YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  15. #75  
    Originally posted by Lawcat
    MarkEagle's warning (closely following JakeE's announcement that he would enjoy special protection against abuse) misses the point of nearly all of the "negative" comments in this thread.
    It has nothing to do with anyone wanting "protection". And since I'm the one wearing the moderator hat, don't tell me I missed the point. Around here we don't tolerate personal attacks. Period. End of discussion.

    The fact that MarkEagle's concern for JakeE's tender sensibilities
    I'm not taking sides in this discussion. As I said, I haven't read all the posts, just enough to know it's time to step in.

    To be perfectly honest, I'm watching this thread at marcus' request. Since he's the boss, and it's his site, I abide by his wishes.

    You gonna' take my marbles, MarkEagle?
    If I have to...
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  16. #76  
    I have an even better idea. Just lock ALL of Jake's threads after he has spoken so that no REAL discussion can occur. Nobody's feelings will get hurt and this forum will lose further relevance!

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  17. #77  
    Originally posted by Nautilus Man
    I have an even better idea. Just lock ALL of Jake's threads after he has spoken so that no REAL discussion can occur. Nobody's feelings will get hurt and this forum will lose further relevance!

    -THP
    A hearty second to that!
  18.    #78  
    Ladies and Gentlemen, children of ALL ages,

    I kindly ask you please keep this conversation positive, productive, polite and professional. If you don’t like my ideas tell me why? Instead of attaching my character or writing style fill this forum with your infinite wisdom. If you have something positive to add please do so, but calling me names and making personal attacks on my character is not going to make handheld computing any better.

    If you don’t like my writing style or ideas, do us both a favor and ignore them. My primary objective in this endeavor is to significantly improve the quality of handheld computing. I ask that you reserve you judgment until you have reviewed ALL of my presentation. If you think my ideas, graphics and writing is weak and you think you can do better job, contact the editor of Treocentral.com and present your ideas to him. I am certain he would be happy to publish your work-product.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  19. #79  
    I don't think anyone here is going to dare post ANYTHING now because it will likely be categorized and dismissed as a "personal attack."

    -THP
    Think First, ask questions later!
  20.    #80  
    O.K. Nautilus Man!

    This is your opportunity! Go ahead! Fill this forum with your wisdom!

    Say something positive, nice, kind or insightful. I dare you!?!

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
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