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  1. #41  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    I think if Handspring is a joke, it's a good line with lousy timing. It could have bring down the house, but management hesitation makes the timing off and it bombs.

    oh well, too bad, so sad, and the show goes on...
    UGH!!! It pains me to say this, but I have to agree with Ska here (i.e. PurpleX) that Handspring has had a history of bad timing.

    Having said that, their timing might still be better than others. There's still no SPV in NA and all of those rumors about SPV2 in september by Orange turned out be...well all smoke and no fire. Meanwhile the other M$ smartphone OEM's like Mitac are having to deal with ire of enthusiasts b/c of stupid decisions like the ridiculous software locking debacle. It's been reported that Samsung has ended its pilot projects with Microsoft cell phones and instead became joint owner and licence taker of Symbian! What does that mean for the SCH-i600? (Hmm..Let's see if that turns out to be true) The Motorola "Chi Mei" based V700 doesn't seem to be too interesting IMO, the Wanda is still vaporware (HP rumors or not), MDA or xda II is interesting but no hard keys at all? And finally Dell is making noises about a smartphone but that probably won't see the light of day until 2004 anyway. In the meantime, in the PalmOS world, the only true competition is the SGH-i500 and that won't arrive until early 04 as well!! Thus if Handspring can deliver in its early Ocotober release date, it may still be just in time before its too late...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 08/16/2003 at 10:01 PM.
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  2. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #42  
    If Microsoft keeps making a loser product, then they don't deserve to be the most profitable company in the planet. Smartphone 2k3 is their second marketed product iteration. Let's see how it will performs. Judging from SPV, I suspect as usual it won't make everybody happy, but they will come back with better model until they get it right.

    They have 40B cash, they can afford experimenting ...
  3. #43  
    for once I agree with you PurpleX-They dont deserve to be the most profitable company in the world. However, with all of their shady deals (like stealing windows, trying to force all manufaturers of computers to buy and install windows on all of their computers, aiding sco to stop Linux, etc.) they have somehow manged it.
    "Matters of great concern should be taken lightly, matters of small concern should be taken seriously."
    -ancient chinese adage
  4. njchris's Avatar
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    #44  
    Originally posted by mwylde
    for once I agree with you PurpleX-They dont deserve to be the most profitable company in the world. However, with all of their shady deals (like stealing windows, trying to force all manufaturers of computers to buy and install windows on all of their computers, aiding sco to stop Linux, etc.) they have somehow manged it.
    He said that in reference to their loser product. But when he first was posting here, PocketPC was the best.

    Whatever...
  5. #45  
    Gameboy70, excellent points. I get a little tired of seeing people throw around these supposed "quotes" of Hawkins or some other Palm executive supposedly claiming that no one needs color or feature X. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone back up any of these claims with actual links to a real article. And even if someone did say such a thing, as you said, it loses meaning outside of context.

    The only thing I'd disagree with is that I don't believe that the Springboard slot was a failure and I think the idea of having the drivers built into the Springboard card is still a great idea. Regular folks don't want to have to deal with messing around installing drivers, they just want to pop in the card and use it.

    Regarding the release date of the 600...I'm sure the reason for the hold-off has more to do with them wanting/needing to dump existing Treo 270/300 stock than anything else.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  6. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #46  
    Originally posted by njchris

    He said that in reference to their loser product. But when he first was posting here, PocketPC was the best.

    Whatever...
    Let me translate what I was saying:
    by 2k3 release or one next to it, Microsoft will stabilize feature set and do all the marketing trick they know to sell it.

    first release is a loser prodcut, second is a fix, third is the real deal. The fact that SPV actually gaining traction in british market is warning enough that Microsoft is climbing the learning curve faster than anybody predicted.

    Microsoft wrote and rewrote the OS faster than Handspring ever release patches to get the balance consumer need. On hardware side It has 2 references and about 6 models to let market decide and test what flavor market like to buy. Don't forget MS smartphone initiative starts much later than Handspring treo project.

    If you are betting Microsoft is not taking note, learning with all that is happening, and then keep trying to find the best blend then you don't know what makes Microsoft ticks.
  7. #47  
    can we stop the MS bashing? They deserve everything they have, just like Palm does.

    Palm and Handspring ran their companies into the ground. Period. They had it all, just like Apple, and turned around and pissed it away in a flurry of hubris and bad vision/planning/execution.

    Now, please don't start flaming, as I am using a Treo, PalmOS, and relatively happy. I've used every device (pda/pim) out there for the past 7 years, and they all have their pluses and minuses. Different strokes for different folks.

    The Treo 600 will be a huge hit, not because it's PalmOS, but because the form factor, thumboard, and carrier are winners.

    MS one big misstep is the lock size on their screens...basically rules out thumboards, which are a must have for any new PDA.
  8. #48  
    Who's to say Microsoft's WinCE division would not have been run into the ground absent the perpetual cash flows of Office/Windows?
  9. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #49  
    Who's to say Microsoft's WinCE division would not have been run into the ground absent the perpetual cash flows of Office/Windows?

    But that's just the point, Microsoft can afford to spend money and learn from mistakes much longer than Palm. If Palm didn't realise from the beginning, and make it a point that they have far less resource than Microsoft to be able to afford bad execution, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

    Palm has their chance and their own big IPO, it's a little too late to keep whining how microsoft has too much resource and they can never match it. Whining is not a strategy.

    ...plus I doubt Microsoft mobile division bleed as much money as Palm in the last 2-3 years.
  10. #50  
    JakeE,

    I'm confused. You seem to have posted the same item several times. Why? Each time I see a new post from you I expect it will be the long-awaited 'complete account' of your meeting with Jeff H.

    I read your initial review of the Treo 600 and was blown away! I shared it with many friends who were also early Mac + Newton users.

    That said, the direction this discussion is taking is starting to remind me of a time about 3 years ago when Steve Jobs was rumored to be ready to unveil a new killer PDA. I was 'addicted' to an Apple "Rumors" discussion board at the time, much like I am with TreoCentral since the announcement of the 600. Anyway, there was a person on that forum who claimed to be an expert who worked in Asia at the plant that was supposed to be producing the units. This guy posted a TON of stuff, and kept everybody hanging. Ultimately the guy proved to be a hoax.

    IMHO you should post your article now and not worry if it is worthy of the Pulitzer Prize...I REALLY enjoyed your first review, but with all the crap that's been going back and forth, I think you should just lay your cards on the table.
  11.    #51  
    fred.illies:

    I understand what you are saying. I put together a deal with Treocentral.com to publish a weekly five part series which will cover everything I have discussed and promised.

    Somebody in the forum in the other thread which was closed my Marcus asked when they could expect to read my review. I told them I planned to have it ready by the end of last week. I kept my word.

    I had the first part of my series prepared for publishing this last Friday, August 22, 2003. Marcus said he would put it up by Friday evening. I spoke with him Saturday and he was having a challenge with ants in his home but assured me he would have it up later Saturday evening.

    I have not heard from Marcus yet but I imagine he was overwhelmed this weekend. I imagine he will be publishing my fist installment tomorrow (Monday, August 24, 2003)

    I am very excited about sharing my insight with the forum members and getting feedback. I have seen many examples of people who attempted to put forth ideas that were half-baked. I can assure you that this in not a hoax in any way and that I believe my upcoming series will be very exciting and shed substantial light on the future of the Handheld category.

    I intend for the discussion that follows my articles to my positive, productive and professional. I discussed this in advance with Marcus and he assured me that the degree of monitoring on personal attacks will be increased and that personal attacks will not be tolerated. I wish to have dialog with the members of this forum that at the minimum will bear fruit and at the maximum will help move the sorry state of handheld computers forward.

    As I mention in Part 1 of my series, the only thing Jeff Hawkins and I seemed to agree upon is the increasingly significant role that handheld computing will play in our lives. In my personal opinion the state of handheld computers and desktop PIM software is totally lame…As a designer I am stunned at how slow real progress is going.

    In my series and in my meeting with Jeff Hawkins I not only offered a great deal of constructive criticism, but I offered a great deal of detailed constructive solutions.

    For the readers who review my articles you will see for the first time exactly what I presented to Jeff Hawkins. Not what Jeff saw, but what I intended for him to see. I accused Jeff Hawkins in his office about an hour into our meeting of being “closed minded.”

    In a subsequent email with Jeff I reasserted my notion of him being closed minded, but who knows? Maybe Jeff will prove me wrong and if he chooses to review my articles, I am certain he will see a number of things he ignored or chose not to see in our meeting because he was too busy trying to haze me. Perhaps Jeff will also see a number of things for the first time as well.

    In my series I will be presenting many strong new ideas and concepts. I remain 100% confident that my ideas are truly innovative, much like the way Expose is innovative in Mac OS 10.3. In the thread that was closed on this subject there were so many people who prejudged me and my work product without seeing it. Essentially, doing the same thing Jeff Hawkins did. It should be interesting…

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  12. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #52  
    Jake, quit talking about the article already. Post the article. You are worst than Handspring fanning treos 600 hype.

    Plus what is with 5 weeks series? how coincidental, it will be finish when the treo 600 is launched (if it is launched at all in late september that is)

    hmm, I am still betting that you are some guy paid by Handspring to keep the conversation warm by stirring up controversies and entertain the public until treo 600 is launched. Sort of like the 'IT' campaign for Segway.

    naughty, naughty you know...
  13.    #53  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    hmm, I am still betting that you are some guy paid by Handspring to keep the conversation warm by stirring up controversies and entertain the public until treo 600 is launched. Sort of like the 'IT' campaign for Segway.
    You know PurpleX that is so strange you should mention it becasue I was thinking the exact same thing about you.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #54  
    uhhh....
    now that you put it that way. lol
    but trust me, it would be too easy that way, this is far more than that.

    I'll call your bluff once I am certain.

    PS. so what do you think of Segways's IT campaign? I don't think it will work on treo. IT was about buzz, treo is hype. Hype is far more dangerous if it fails.
  15.    #55  
    When I first saw the Segway Human Transport I thought it was super cool. But then I started thinking about it??? I walk and run a lot but if I had a Segway, I know I would probably not get nearly enough exercise.

    I mean, how lazy do you have to be to want to ride a mile or so? And when you reach your destination what do you do with the Segway??? What if the battery runs out??? What if you hit someone by mistake??? In San Francisco they outlawed them on sidewalks so once in a while you see one on the street, but what if you get hit by a car???
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  16. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #56  
    you are changing the subject. Not the segway itself, but the 'IT' campaign.
  17.    #57  
    I thought the IT campaign was for the Segway was brilliant, but in the final analysis it was symbolism over substance. Although I believe it was a terrible mistake for Handspring to leave out a 320x320 screen I think the Treo 600 is really cool and I can’t wait to get one.

    If I was working for Handspring do you honestly think I would have made comments like I have??? Think about it???
    Last edited by JakeE; 08/25/2003 at 04:39 AM.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #58  
    If you are not working for HS, you'll get sued your *** off by now.

    you are right about the screen, specially knowing Samsung has one.
  19.    #59  
    On what ground? It is called Freedom of Speech.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  20. #60  
    > On what ground?...

    Did you sign a nondisclosure agreement with Handspring?

    (and if you didn't, Handspring REALLY fell down on the job)

    =====

    BTW (and IMHO) - TreoCentral is a relatively rinky-dink operation - the financial side is undoubtedly intimately tied into the editorial side. As such, "publishing" something that kicks a money source (or potential money source) in the **** might not be considered prudent. Similarly, if TreoCentral thinks you DID sign a nondisclosure or its equivalent, they might be somewhat hesitant to publish your series without approval from Handspring - lawsuits, even successfully defended lawsuits, are rather expensive - have you been told in any manner that your series is being presented to Handspring for approval?
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